OT: The unlikely career of Draymond Green

[JCSunsfan]

When you look for a top three player on a championship team, you do not look for a Draymond Green. The Warriors are like the Spurs in this regard, they have found star players very late in the draft. So, in all the tanking and top pick groanings, remember that the most important thing is choosing the right players when you pick, and developing them after you pick them.

Here are things that have gone against Green.

1. 4 year college player. Those guys are regarded poorly in the draft.
2. 6-7, unathletic (rated a 6 in that category at NBAdraft.net), "tweener" label, criticized for not excelling in any area, overweight, considered having minimal upside.
3. Drafted in the second round (35th pick).
4. Horrible rookie year. Overweight, terrible shooter (32% from the field, 21% from three).
5. Lost 20 pounds after his rookie year. Improved his three point shooting. Still did not get much burn.
6. David Lee goes down with an injury and he is forced into the starting position. He suddenly explodes. All of the sudden it is "in" to excel in lots of skills but not master a particular one.
7. Has his best run as an NBA player in the finals playing CENTER of all things. (Sorry BC, I know this doesnt seem right to you.)

Now an all-star, all-defensive team, and potentially all nba.

Should the career of Draymond Green impact how the Suns approach the draft or the future?

 

[AzStevenCal]

When you look for a top three player on a championship team, you do not look for a Draymond Green. The Warriors are like the Spurs in this regard, they have found star players very late in the draft. So, in all the tanking and top pick groanings, remember that the most important thing is choosing the right players when you pick, and developing them after you pick them.

Here are things that have gone against Green.

1. 4 year college player. Those guys are regarded poorly in the draft.
2. 6-7, unathletic (rated a 6 in that category at NBAdraft.net), "tweener" label, criticized for not excelling in any area, overweight, considered having minimal upside.
3. Drafted in the second round (35th pick).
4. Horrible rookie year. Overweight, terrible shooter (32% from the field, 21% from three).
5. Lost 20 pounds after his rookie year. Improved his three point shooting. Still did not get much burn.
6. David Lee goes down with an injury and he is forced into the starting position. He suddenly explodes. All of the sudden it is "in" to excel in lots of skills but not master a particular one.
7. Has his best run as an NBA player in the finals playing CENTER of all things. (Sorry BC, I know this doesnt seem right to you.)

Now an all-star, all-defensive team, and potentially all nba.

Should the career of Draymond Green impact how the Suns approach the draft or the future?

I don't think so. Green was an excellent defender in college but everyone knew he wouldn't have a position in the NBA. But the rules changes and the right mix of players came together at the right time and all of a sudden he's a special talent. But I really believe there are very few situations where Green would be any more than a deep bench player. I just don't think it's a situation we can look to duplicate.

Besides, we already have a poor man's version of Green. All we'd have to do is get him off the sauce, get him into shape, turn him into a leader, make him grow 3 inches taller, move him to the center position and surround him with great shooters. Seriously though, it's actually how I'd use PJ although not for anywhere near the minutes that Green can handle the role.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think this is what the second round of the draft is all about, to take chances on players like Draymond Green. PJ Tucker is an interesting comparison because they have a similar game in many respects. Also both players were selected with the 35th pick in the second round.

Hopefully the Suns can get lucky in the second round soon. It's been awhile since the Suns selected a player in the second round with their pick (and kept the pick) that turned into something special.

In the second round, the Suns traded for the Dragic pick in 2008. However, I think it's fair to count the Dragic pick because the Suns traded a couple of second round picks (if my memory is correct) to get the pick from the Spurs. The Suns sold the Gortat pick in 2005.

Going back away, Stephen Jackson was drafted by the Suns in the second round but waived before he played a game in 1997. Andrew Lang was drafted in the second round in 1994. Richard Dumas was drafted in 1991. Cedric Ceballos was drafted in the second round in 1990.

I'm sure I am missing someone.

I guess the bottom line, the Suns need to scout the second round more closely for hidden gems.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think this is what the second round of the draft is all about, to take chances on players like Draymond Green. PJ Tucker is an interesting comparison because they have a similar game in many respects. Also both players were selected with the 35th pick in the second round.

Hopefully the Suns can get lucky in the second round soon. It's been awhile since the Suns selected a player in the second round with their pick (and kept the pick) that turned into something special.

In the second round, the Suns traded for the Dragic pick in 2008. However, I think it's fair to count the Dragic pick because the Suns traded a couple of second round picks (if my memory is correct) to get the pick from the Spurs. The Suns sold the Gortat pick in 2005.

Going back away, Stephen Jackson was drafted by the Suns in the second round but waived before he played a game in 1997. Andrew Lang was drafted in the second round in 1994. Richard Dumas was drafted in 1991. Cedric Ceballos was drafted in the second round in 1990.

I'm sure I am missing someone.

I guess the bottom line, the Suns need to scout the second round more closely for hidden gems.

Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, and technically Marcin Gortat (I know, did not keep the pick).

 

[Mainstreet]

Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, and technically Marcin Gortat (I know, did not keep the pick).

These are notable picks. You went back a few years more than me. I really don't count Gortat because the Suns sold the pick and they were making the selection for another team.

It's interesting the NBA once had a 10 round draft, then it was switched to a 7 round draft in 1985 and in 1989 switched to two rounds.

I really enjoy the draft but I'm glad they switched it to two rounds. It tied up players drafted after the second round from perhaps finding the best fit.

 

[sunsfan88]

Should the career of Draymond Green impact how the Suns approach the draft or the future?

No. Players like Green are outliers and it does support the theory that any player has the chance of being a star but certainly a much, much lesser chance of it happening.

It would be like NFL teams drafting QBs in the 6th round and expecting them all to be Tom Brady.

 

[Sunburn]

I don't think so. Green was an excellent defender in college but everyone knew he wouldn't have a position in the NBA. But the rules changes and the right mix of players came together at the right time and all of a sudden he's a special talent. But I really believe there are very few situations where Green would be any more than a deep bench player. I just don't think it's a situation we can look to duplicate.

Besides, we already have a poor man's version of Green. All we'd have to do is get him off the sauce, get him into shape, turn him into a leader, make him grow 3 inches taller, move him to the center position and surround him with great shooters. Seriously though, it's actually how I'd use PJ although not for anywhere near the minutes that Green can handle the role.

I realize half of your post was tongue in cheek, however, I think you're severely discounting Green's ability. He is one of the most well-rounded players in the NBA, much more well-rounded than PJ. Besides Curry, who is an alien, Golden State's roster, though talented, is not all that unique. They are deep, and Klay Thompson is a great player, but Green (along with Curry) is what sets them apart. Remember, prior to Green being installed as a major component, Golden State was nothing special. This was a team that still featured Curry, Thompson, Barnes, a lot of what is there today. Insert Green and all of a sudden BAM. Now part of that has to do with Curry's insane development, Thompson's development, Kerr taking over as coach, but I think it is no coincidence that Green's insertion as a major component of the team has coincided with their championship level improvement. As we've seen since Curry has been out in this year's playoffs, Green has been their MVP. I see no reason why he would not be similarly impactful on a different team. What do you see on their roster that makes you think Green would not be successful elsewhere? Elite shooting? With Curry out, Klay is their only elite shooter. Instead of this diminishing Green, he's been even more effective. The rest of the team's 3 point shooting ability is no different than what is found elsewhere in the NBA, shooting a collective 36%. There are 15 teams in the NBA that shoot over 35% from 3. If team 3 point shooting is a caveat for Draymond Green's success, why then would he be relegated to the deep bench on any of these clubs, especially since he himself shot 39% from 3 this year? No, I'm pretty sure he would be an integral component of these clubs. Likewise, I'm pretty sure he'd be an integral component of lesser shooting clubs as well. That's what's so great about his game. He finds ways to contribute everywhere on the court. There is no such team that Green would not make better because he is so well-rounded. Curry is a freak, and will probably go down as the greatest shooter of all time, but in my opinion, Green has been the difference maker for Golden State. Getting a player that valuable with the 35th pick in the draft is such a grand slam home run. Easily the difference between a championship level squad, and just a good one. I salivate at the thought of the Suns being able to pluck similar value late in the draft.

With all that being said, and admittedly that was wordy, I agree with you that trying to find the next Draymond Green may be a fool's effort. This isn't because he's just a guy that lucked into the right situation, but because he's a unicorn, and his draft profile usually leads to a bust. Now, this isn't to say versatility shouldn't be at the forefront of what teams are looking for in this new age of the NBA. It should be. But teams need to understand versatility, how to employ it, and if the players they are installing actually offer it. Or else you get this two point guard, no point guard crap.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Warriors nor anyone else had any idea how good Green was going to be. If the Warriors thought he'd be anywhere near this good they probably would have moved up further to ensure getting him.

You can't "scout rounds", you scout players. If a guy you like ends up being on the board in the 2nd round (or within reasonable cost to trade up for) awesome, but I think putting a lot of effort into scouting guys projecting in the 2nd round is a waste of resources. Only once every few years does a decent player come out of the 2nd round and even if you somehow had the clairvoyance to spot one of those guys, you'd still have no idea if they'll actually fall to when you're picking.

 

[Errntknght]

The Warriors nor anyone else had any idea how good Green was going to be. If the Warriors thought he'd be anywhere near this good they probably would have moved up further to ensure getting him.

You can't "scout rounds", you scout players. If a guy you like ends up being on the board in the 2nd round (or within reasonable cost to trade up for) awesome, but I think putting a lot of effort into scouting guys projecting in the 2nd round is a waste of resources. Only once every few years does a decent player come out of the 2nd round and even if you somehow had the clairvoyance to spot one of those guys, you'd still have no idea if they'll actually fall to when you're picking.

I'm with you... pretty much forget the second round and make sure you get the first round right! Were I drafting in the second round basketball IQ would be my main criterion... Red Auerbach said that that was always his first criterion.

 

[Russ Smith]

I actually remember that the only pick in that draft I liked by the Warriors was Green. I didn't think he'd be a starter let alone a star but he was a tough kid who played hard. I didn't like Barnes at all and he's panned out and I was not fond of Ezeli and he's been pretty good too.

I think my comment on Green was he's a tweener so he'll never be a starter but at least he plays with a chip on his shoulder. I really disliked Barnes in college thought he was a great athlete but didn't play hard, avoided contact and had no off the bounce game at all.

Look back at that draft and the Cavs and Kings are kicking themselves picking Waiters and Thomas Robinson over Lillard.

 

[GatorAZ]

21/9/5/7/4

 

[DWKB]

I actually remember that the only pick in that draft I liked by the Warriors was Green. I didn't think he'd be a starter let alone a star but he was a tough kid who played hard. I didn't like Barnes at all and he's panned out and I was not fond of Ezeli and he's been pretty good too.

I think my comment on Green was he's a tweener so he'll never be a starter but at least he plays with a chip on his shoulder. I really disliked Barnes in college thought he was a great athlete but didn't play hard, avoided contact and had no off the bounce game at all.

Look back at that draft and the Cavs and Kings are kicking themselves picking Waiters and Thomas Robinson over Lillard.

Thomas Robinson was supposed to be what Draymond Green became.

 

[Russ Smith]

Thomas Robinson was supposed to be what Draymond Green became.

Right I liked him too although again he was undersized for a 4 and not a 3.

But compared to what Lillard is now, boy do they wish they had that pick back especially given Lillard is from the Bay Area.

Lots of people missed on Lillard though, under recruited in HS too Scout had him 2 stars, grew 4 inches since HS.

 

[Sunburn]

I realize half of your post was tongue in cheek, however, I think you're severely discounting Green's ability. He is one of the most well-rounded players in the NBA, much more well-rounded than PJ. Besides Curry, who is an alien, Golden State's roster, though talented, is not all that unique. They are deep, and Klay Thompson is a great player, but Green (along with Curry) is what sets them apart. Remember, prior to Green being installed as a major component, Golden State was nothing special. This was a team that still featured Curry, Thompson, Barnes, a lot of what is there today. Insert Green and all of a sudden BAM. Now part of that has to do with Curry's insane development, Thompson's development, Kerr taking over as coach, but I think it is no coincidence that Green's insertion as a major component of the team has coincided with their championship level improvement. As we've seen since Curry has been out in this year's playoffs, Green has been their MVP. I see no reason why he would not be similarly impactful on a different team. What do you see on their roster that makes you think Green would not be successful elsewhere? Elite shooting? With Curry out, Klay is their only elite shooter. Instead of this diminishing Green, he's been even more effective. The rest of the team's 3 point shooting ability is no different than what is found elsewhere in the NBA, shooting a collective 36%. There are 15 teams in the NBA that shoot over 35% from 3. If team 3 point shooting is a caveat for Draymond Green's success, why then would he be relegated to the deep bench on any of these clubs, especially since he himself shot 39% from 3 this year? No, I'm pretty sure he would be an integral component of these clubs. Likewise, I'm pretty sure he'd be an integral component of lesser shooting clubs as well. That's what's so great about his game. He finds ways to contribute everywhere on the court. There is no such team that Green would not make better because he is so well-rounded. Curry is a freak, and will probably go down as the greatest shooter of all time, but in my opinion, Green has been the difference maker for Golden State. Getting a player that valuable with the 35th pick in the draft is such a grand slam home run. Easily the difference between a championship level squad, and just a good one. I salivate at the thought of the Suns being able to pluck similar value late in the draft.

With all that being said, and admittedly that was wordy, I agree with you that trying to find the next Draymond Green may be a fool's effort. This isn't because he's just a guy that lucked into the right situation, but because he's a unicorn, and his draft profile usually leads to a bust. Now, this isn't to say versatility shouldn't be at the forefront of what teams are looking for in this new age of the NBA. It should be. But teams need to understand versatility, how to employ it, and if the players they are installing actually offer it. Or else you get this two point guard, no point guard crap.

Good pick by the Dubs, but I hate D Green. I hate his antics. I hate his face. I hate him.