OT: Von Miller to the Rams

[Shane]

**** the NFC West. 80.3 pass rush grade this year.

He's no Von Miller but he's only 24

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Charles Omenihu Career Stats | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

Doesn’t look. Like someone to get to worked up over? Maybe you know more that I’m not aware of?

 

[BritCard]

Charles Omenihu Career Stats | NFL.com

www.nfl.com

Doesn’t look. Like someone to get to worked up over? Maybe you know more that I’m not aware of?

It's not so much the player. It's how competitive all the teams are always trying to get better. It's the football version of "keeping up with the Joneses" (or whatever the US equiv is).

On saying that he's a solid player, still only 24. Still has this year and next on a cheap rookie deal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

this is a good move for the Rams this year, no question.

Snead has taken a real outlier of a strategy: in a league where a premium is put on inexpensive players acquired through the draft, he has taken the opposite tack.

The Rams D took a step back this year -- in part because high ranked defenses usually do -- but also because a variety of solid young players couldn't be resigned, and there was no draft replacements.

I think getting little in the draft will compound negatively over time. Lots of teams have shown that you can skip a draft either via trade or just bad choices and still be really good. We will see if a team can do it three or four years in a row and still be good.

Haven’t they already been doing it 3 or 4 years in a row?

 

[Krangodnzr]

That is conventional thinking, but not quite correct. The Rams signed and lost a DT like Suh....lost John Johnson and others, but they also received compensation picks for these guys the following year, The Rams have been excellent at finding guys in the later rounds, along with UDFA's that go on to start for the team.

There are a number of recent examples on the Rams roster where this tactic isn't working as well. None of the LBs they've tried have been close to as good as Littleton was, and the Rams have tried a number of guys.

One of the reasons the Rams aren't as good defensively this year is that they aren't getting as good results at DB positions as they did in the past. Long isn't good, Rochell is only ok, and Williams wasn't playing nearly as well as he did last year. Troy Hill was kind of a glue guy for the CBs and losing him has hurt.

Fuller hasn't really gotten better, and Rapp is pretty inconsistent. The Rams are definitely missing John Johnson.

Brad Holmes, who the Lions filched this last offseason to be the GM (I believe), was instrumental in finding these guys and I worried what effect it would have on the Rams system, but so far it seems to be good. As a consequence, the Rams are the 5th youngest team in the NFL.

The Rams have lost a ton of coaches of the years and we're seeing some of the effects. I think Staley is one of the 10 best coaches in the NFL already, and Morris isn't nearly as good. I know from watching the Cardinals vs. Rams I could tell a big difference in how the Rams D played the Cardinals.

The Cardinals are even younger than the Rams right now.

You probably didn't notice that Joe Noteboom has exponentially progressed as the Rams future LT after Whit retires. He has started in several games the last couple of years when Whitworth was injured and the transition was smooth. Whit has taken Boom under his wing in the offseason, and the kid has improved in strength and technique.

In other words, our future demise is greatly exaggerated.

Noteboom has been a nice find for the Rams and he's lucky he's had the chance to sit back and develop. He didn't look great at first, but he's developed into a good starting lineman and the Rams are lucky to have him on the bench.

I'd say the Rams have a few year window right now. They can kick the can down the road and bring back most this roster, but they will have to leverage future flexibility. You mentioned they can create some cap space by extending Stafford, but that will have future ramifications. As much as I like the move for the Rams to trade for Von Miller, he is 33, and is a rusher that relies a lot on his speed rush. That's a guy that could fall off the cliff any time now.

And damn, I didn't even notice that Noteboom is a free agent. Some team might come in and throw 16 million plus at him. He has good enough tape to warrant a big contract. Noteboom, Corbett, and Allen might all get real good contracts on the open market. Even Edwards should as well. Darrious Williams should command a top contract too. Lots of guys to resign on 7 million and to keep a 33 year old pass rusher.

 

[football karma]

That is conventional thinking, but not quite correct.

conventional, yes.

not correct? we wont know that for two more years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There are a number of recent examples on the Rams roster where this tactic isn't working as well. None of the LBs they've tried have been close to as good as Littleton was, and the Rams have tried a number of guys.

One of the reasons the Rams aren't as good defensively this year is that they aren't getting as good results at DB positions as they did in the past. Long isn't good, Rochell is only ok, and Williams wasn't playing nearly as well as he did last year. Troy Hill was kind of a glue guy for the CBs and losing him has hurt.

Fuller hasn't really gotten better, and Rapp is pretty inconsistent. The Rams are definitely missing John Johnson.

The Rams have lost a ton of coaches of the years and we're seeing some of the effects. I think Staley is one of the 10 best coaches in the NFL already, and Morris isn't nearly as good. I know from watching the Cardinals vs. Rams I could tell a big difference in how the Rams D played the Cardinals.

The Cardinals are even younger than the Rams right now.

Noteboom has been a nice find for the Rams and he's lucky he's had the chance to sit back and develop. He didn't look great at first, but he's developed into a good starting lineman and the Rams are lucky to have him on the bench.

I'd say the Rams have a few year window right now. They can kick the can down the road and bring back most this roster, but they will have to leverage future flexibility. You mentioned they can create some cap space by extending Stafford, but that will have future ramifications. As much as I like the move for the Rams to trade for Von Miller, he is 33, and is a rusher that relies a lot on his speed rush. That's a guy that could fall off the cliff any time now.

And damn, I didn't even notice that Noteboom is a free agent. Some team might come in and throw 16 million plus at him. He has good enough tape to warrant a big contract. Noteboom, Corbett, and Allen might all get real good contracts on the open market. Even Edwards should as well. Darrious Williams should command a top contract too. Lots of guys to resign on 7 million and to keep a 33 year old pass rusher.

For having “a number of recent examples where this isn’t working” they sure look pretty good at 7-1 and improving their current roster.

The truth is, they have taken a tact where they are comfortable downgrading at some positions in order to upgrade at more impactful positions (like QBS and passrush). As has been pointed out as nauseum on ASFN, no team is perfect overall and all have holes. Their strategy is to have a handful of REALLY high end players and find values to sprinkle in between. They’ve done a good job of it. I don’t think we have fewer holes than do the Rams and we are likely evenly matched (at least pre-watt injury) bc of it. But they’ve been doing it effectively for longer than us.

The irony of criticizing the Rams way of team building is that it’s not that far off from what we’ve done. We’ve also traded or signed big dollar players like chandler jones, Hopkins, jJ watt, Hudson. We are just lucky enough to be operating on a pre-extension kyler murray contract at present.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

conventional, yes.

not correct? we wont know that for two more years.

They’ve been operating like this for a few years now and the wheels haven’t fallen off. I don’t know why some of you discredit the evidence before our eyes.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's not so much the player. It's how competitive all the teams are always trying to get better. It's the football version of "keeping up with the Joneses" (or whatever the US equiv is).

On saying that he's a solid player, still only 24. Still has this year and next on a cheap rookie deal

Yes, this division has zero chill.

 

[LoyalRam]

There are a number of recent examples on the Rams roster where this tactic isn't working as well. None of the LBs they've tried have been close to as good as Littleton was, and the Rams have tried a number of guys.

One of the reasons the Rams aren't as good defensively this year is that they aren't getting as good results at DB positions as they did in the past. Long isn't good, Rochell is only ok, and Williams wasn't playing nearly as well as he did last year. Troy Hill was kind of a glue guy for the CBs and losing him has hurt.

Fuller hasn't really gotten better, and Rapp is pretty inconsistent. The Rams are definitely missing John Johnson.

The Rams have lost a ton of coaches of the years and we're seeing some of the effects. I think Staley is one of the 10 best coaches in the NFL already, and Morris isn't nearly as good. I know from watching the Cardinals vs. Rams I could tell a big difference in how the Rams D played the Cardinals.

The Cardinals are even younger than the Rams right now.

Noteboom has been a nice find for the Rams and he's lucky he's had the chance to sit back and develop. He didn't look great at first, but he's developed into a good starting lineman and the Rams are lucky to have him on the bench.

I'd say the Rams have a few year window right now. They can kick the can down the road and bring back most this roster, but they will have to leverage future flexibility. You mentioned they can create some cap space by extending Stafford, but that will have future ramifications. As much as I like the move for the Rams to trade for Von Miller, he is 33, and is a rusher that relies a lot on his speed rush. That's a guy that could fall off the cliff any time now.

And damn, I didn't even notice that Noteboom is a free agent. Some team might come in and throw 16 million plus at him. He has good enough tape to warrant a big contract. Noteboom, Corbett, and Allen might all get real good contracts on the open market. Even Edwards should as well. Darrious Williams should command a top contract too. Lots of guys to resign on 7 million and to keep a 33 year old pass rusher.

Snead and Demoff are magicians, so we'll see...

 

[LoyalRam]

conventional, yes.

not correct? we wont know that for two more years.

Rams have been wheeling and dealing for 5 years and have 10 game win average as of right now under McVay and threaten to win it all this year. I would say it's worked out darn well

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

There are still 9 games left in the season and none of us can predict what will happen.

Enough admiring yourself in the mirror like Buffalo Bill.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Snead and Demoff are magicians, so we'll see...

I'm a Snead admirer from afar.

I've doubted him and he has come through in the past. Just like I said earlier, I loved the Rams having Fisher, because those were talented teams that were outcoached every Sunday.

 

[Krangodnzr]

For having “a number of recent examples where this isn’t working” they sure look pretty good at 7-1 and improving their current roster.

I'm talking on the micro level. The bigger moves are working. Stafford has been a massive upgrade over Goff as an example.

The truth is, they have taken a tact where they are comfortable downgrading at some positions in order to upgrade at more impactful positions (like QBS and passrush). As has been pointed out as nauseum on ASFN, no team is perfect overall and all have holes.

Right no team has no holes. That's my point. If you read the Rams fan narrative over on their board, they are much rosier than we are. I think since we've dwelled in the dark so long, we look more at warts than a lot of other fan bases do. Like I said earlier, I literally read one of their fans say that Bryce Perkins was a better passer than Murray. Granted, people laughed at him, but there were other absurd opinions like that.

Their strategy is to have a handful of REALLY high end players and find values to sprinkle in between. They’ve done a good job of it. I don’t think we have fewer holes than do the Rams and we are likely evenly matched (at least pre-watt injury) bc of it. But they’ve been doing it effectively for longer than us.

I think what will separate the Rams from the Cardinals is that I think Snead can keep it up but Keim can't.

The irony of criticizing the Rams way of team building is that it’s not that far off from what we’ve done. We’ve also traded or signed big dollar players like chandler jones, Hopkins, jJ watt, Hudson. We are just lucky enough to be operating on a pre-extension kyler murray contract at present.

Not everything is a criticism. Stating facts aren't criticisms. The Rams have done well under their current regime, but they aren't perfect like some on here make it out.

4/5 of their top OL are free agents after this season. Their 2nd best CB is a free agent. They have $7 million to spend. It's a tough situation and it's one that even the best GMs would struggle with. That's why this is the year for the Rams to make a huge push. They can do it.

 

[BritCard]

Ugh. This is nothing for a guy with an 80 pash rush grade. 15% pressure rate and still only 24 with 18 months left on a cheap deal.

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[GatorAZ]

Ugh. This is nothing for a guy with an 80 pash rush grade. 15% pressure rate and still only 24 with 18 months left on a cheap deal.

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Why is a team with no young talent trading him away?

 

[Ronin]

That great and all but I have as many sacks as Charles Omenihu

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why is a team with no young talent trading him away?

Kindness?

 

[jf-08]

Why is a team with no young talent trading him away?

The Texans wanted to somehow hurt the Cards after being fleeced by them.

 

[BritCard]

That great and all but I have as many sacks as Charles Omenihu

Who else is on that line to help? I think he's going to be good for the Niners.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm talking on the micro level. The bigger moves are working. Stafford has been a massive upgrade over Goff as an example.

Right no team has no holes. That's my point. If you read the Rams fan narrative over on their board, they are much rosier than we are. I think since we've dwelled in the dark so long, we look more at warts than a lot of other fan bases do. Like I said earlier, I literally read one of their fans say that Bryce Perkins was a better passer than Murray. Granted, people laughed at him, but there were other absurd opinions like that.

I think what will separate the Rams from the Cardinals is that I think Snead can keep it up but Keim can't.

Not everything is a criticism. Stating facts aren't criticisms. The Rams have done well under their current regime, but they aren't perfect like some on here make it out.

4/5 of their top OL are free agents after this season. Their 2nd best CB is a free agent. They have $7 million to spend. It's a tough situation and it's one that even the best GMs would struggle with. That's why this is the year for the Rams to make a huge push. They can do it.

Those facts aren’t so dissimilar from our’s though, are they? We’ve got a slew of free agents as well - likely more cap room, but not sure it isn’t somewhat comparable considering how many spots we will need to fill/replace/resign. Like we have no rbs signed beyond this year and half our wrs are free agents, etc

 

[Krangodnzr]

Those facts aren’t so dissimilar from our’s though, are they? We’ve got a slew of free agents as well - likely more cap room, but not sure it isn’t somewhat comparable considering how many spots we will need to fill/replace/resign. Like we have no rbs signed beyond this year and half our wrs are free agents, etc

Right...and you've heard me say the same thing about the upcoming Cardinals offseason as well. The Cardinals could literally be a 7-10 football team in 2022 if they screw up the offseason. The Rams could be not too dissimilar to what the Chiefs are going through if they screw up their offseason as well.

I'm just pointing out that while it's a nice move to trade for Von Miller:
1) He will be 33 next season
2) He's probably going to still get paid
3) Almost their entire offensive line are free agents
4) They have $7 million. Even with creative cap work, they can't resign all of those offensive lineman, Darrious Williams, and Von Miller.

 

[Russ Smith]

Rams are apparently going to waive DeSean Jackson as nobody would trade for him. I know we don't need him but I think he'd be interesting to kick the tires. Murray throws as good a deep ball as anybody in the NFL, and DeSean can still run if you limit his snaps.

 

[Corbin]

You have $8m cap space next year even if they cap goes up to the absolute max. Say you rejig Stafford that's $18m.

That's Von Miller on his own. Not even that because teams like to leave $4-5m for in season and IR replacements.

Williams, Corbett, Gay, Allen and Noteboom all need extending. It's not impossible with some cap magic but it's not simple. Certainly doesn't leave any room for any significant new FA's.

We don’t need any significant FA’s next year and the nice thing about playing for a Veteran friendly coach, in a nice place to play in LA, the best stadium in the world, and a Super Bowl caliber team most of the guys we sign that aren’t top tier take team friendly deals. At least the ones we want to retain.

Champagne problems, but you are glossing over the cap crunch the Rams will face.

I was laughing pretty hard at the takes on Ramsondemand on the Cardinals pre and post game. That one dude who says that Bryce Perkins is a better passer than Murray? Thats a hoot.

You can do multiple all in moves during multiple seasons. Snead and McVay have shown a willingness to take that risk.

Don’t get me started on the delusional takes on the Cards and Murray smh. As I argued through the off-season starting 8-0, 9-0 or whatever it was wasn’t a fluke and it’s going to be similar next year. Low and behold you guys are 7-1 to..

And forgive some of them, they got those rose colored ( or maybe yellow colored?) glasses on a lot of times. My only problem with Murray has been his height and durability concerns. Outside of that I actually like watching him play ( outside of against us -_-)

I have a man crush on Zaven Collins and interested to see how he turns out this year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We don’t need any significant FA’s next year and the nice thing about playing for a Veteran friendly coach, in a nice place to play in LA, the best stadium in the world, and a Super Bowl caliber team most of the guys we sign that aren’t top tier take team friendly deals. At least the ones we want to retain.

I think we as fans largely overplay these beliefs though. If a player is offered $1 million more per year, they will take that offer.

Teams like the Rams and Cardinals do have an edge on third contract guys, guys just looking to get a ring and to keep playing.

Don’t get me started on the delusional takes on the Cards and Murray smh. As I argued through the off-season starting 8-0, 9-0 or whatever it was wasn’t a fluke and it’s going to be similar next year. Low and behold you guys are 7-1 to..

A big chunk of this site thought the Cardinals were going to having a losing year. I didn't because I thought that they were an 8-8 team that got better.

I think right now, we're a bit more pessimistic because the Cardinals do have a significant amount of injuries. Not enough to cripple the team, but enough that we would lose a game we shouldn't. The Packers game was a game the Cardinals probably win by 14 points 3 weeks ago.

And forgive some of them, they got those rose colored ( or maybe yellow colored?) glasses on a lot of times. My only problem with Murray has been his height and durability concerns. Outside of that I actually like watching him play ( outside of against us -_-)

His height is really not much of an issue at all. Shorter guys learn to play the position differently. His durability is definitely a concern, and I wonder if Murray is just a guy who doesn't like to play through pain. If you ever hear NFL players talk candidly, they will tell you that almost to a man, they all go through more significant injuries that aren't reported.

I have a man crush on Zaven Collins and interested to see how he turns out this year.

Zaven has looked really good, but Hicks calls the defense. It's interesting because if you just watched play on the field, it's obvious Zaven is a good young LB, but Hicks helps with the overall defense more right now.

We've see enough to know that Zaven will be a stud when he finally takes over.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Rams are apparently going to waive DeSean Jackson as nobody would trade for him. I know we don't need him but I think he'd be interesting to kick the tires. Murray throws as good a deep ball as anybody in the NFL, and DeSean can still run if you limit his snaps.

Heh Murray won't throw short of him like Stafford has LOL

I had to take ONE dig at the Rams in this thread.