OTAs ??

[daves]

even as a relatively skilled worker, you're lucky to get two weeks of vacation with a few holidays off.

Huh?!

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average private sector employee with just one year of service does get 2 weeks of paid vacation, not counting sick days or the 10 federal holidays. After 5 years it's about 2.5 weeks, and after 10 it's around 3 weeks.

...dbs

 

[Solar7]

Huh?!

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average private sector employee with just one year of service does get 2 weeks of paid vacation, not counting sick days or the 10 federal holidays. After 5 years it's about 2.5 weeks, and after 10 it's around 3 weeks.

...dbs

1. Length of service does not make you unskilled. I consider someone with a college education to be "relatively skilled," and plenty of companies start you off at the baseline regardless of previous experience. Having to wait a year to be qualified for two weeks off (10 days) is insanity.

2. Sick days are unaccounted for in this data set, as far as I can see.

3. Juza is Italian, if I am correct. Italian workers are entitled to four weeks of legally mandated vacation each year, and they have 10 national paid holidays. So, after 10 years of service, we're sitting a week behind the starting baseline for the European Union.

4. I couldn't even get unpaid time off to go to a close friend's wedding.

5. Sick time is often bucketed into PTO, so you can't take all of your time off because you might get sick.

6. Most states do not require companies to pay out unused vacation or sick time.

7. Companies are 100% in control of when you can take paid time off or sick time, and can penalize or deny it.

8. Going back to #1, I worked as a contractor for a company who had a rigid policy on time off. Even if you were a Vice President with 25 years of experience, you got 5 days off year one. No wonder they were mainly built off of contractors.

I can talk about this more than I've hated our running back situation.

 

[Solar7]

Oh yeah, I don't care about OTAs, another week of body busting work for no additional pay sucks for the players.

 

[BritCard]

Huh?!

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average private sector employee with just one year of service does get 2 weeks of paid vacation, not counting sick days or the 10 federal holidays. After 5 years it's about 2.5 weeks, and after 10 it's around 3 weeks.

...dbs

You should come live in the UK. 5.6 weeks paid holiday from day 1.

I often think US Labour law is harsh AF. Much more difficult to fire people here too without serious cause.

 

[BritCard]

Oh yeah, I don't care about OTAs, another week of body busting work for no additional pay sucks for the players.

As agreed to in a CBA signed not much more than a year ago. A CBA where OTA participation is counterbalanced against things the NFLPA wanted.

I have zero sympathy for players.

 

[daves]

Wow... that's a lot of words below but the fact remains that the part of your previous post that i quoted, "even as a relatively skilled worker, you're lucky to get two weeks of vacation with a few holidays off", is not true.

ALL government employees and the "average" private sector employee with just one year of service get two weeks of vacation PLUS 10 holidays PLUS sick days.

...dbs

1. Length of service does not make you unskilled. I consider someone with a college education to be "relatively skilled," and plenty of companies start you off at the baseline regardless of previous experience. Having to wait a year to be qualified for two weeks off (10 days) is insanity.

2. Sick days are unaccounted for in this data set, as far as I can see.

3. Juza is Italian, if I am correct. Italian workers are entitled to four weeks of legally mandated vacation each year, and they have 10 national paid holidays. So, after 10 years of service, we're sitting a week behind the starting baseline for the European Union.

4. I couldn't even get unpaid time off to go to a close friend's wedding.

5. Sick time is often bucketed into PTO, so you can't take all of your time off because you might get sick.

6. Most states do not require companies to pay out unused vacation or sick time.

7. Companies are 100% in control of when you can take paid time off or sick time, and can penalize or deny it.

8. Going back to #1, I worked as a contractor for a company who had a rigid policy on time off. Even if you were a Vice President with 25 years of experience, you got 5 days off year one. No wonder they were mainly built off of contractors.

I can talk about this more than I've hated our running back situation.

 

[Solar7]

As agreed to in a CBA signed not much more than a year ago. A CBA where OTA participation is counterbalanced against things the NFLPA wanted.

I have zero sympathy for players.

It was a small margin of agreement. I care, but the compensation is so high that I'm not crazy about it either way.

Wow... that's a lot of words below but the fact remains that the part of your previous post that i quoted, "even as a relatively skilled worker, you're lucky to get two weeks of vacation with a few holidays off", is not true.

ALL government employees and the "average" private sector employee with just one year of service get two weeks of vacation PLUS 10 holidays PLUS sick days.

...dbs

I don't give a poop about what government workers get. Most of us are not government workers. Many employed people are not sitting in jobs they've had for a full year. Worse off, I'm talking to Juza about how jobs work in our country, and you're trying to sell two weeks of vacation, plus holidays as some great thing, when he and the rest of his continent mostly get 4 weeks to begin ANY job. Your article doesn't back it really, but it's being thankful for scraps even if it were true.

We're designed to sell out everything for companies now, and feel like a corporate world where we can be fired at any time for any reason, for a paltry 10 days off, who is wholly responsible for our health care, is a totally equitable and fair system.

This isn't the board for this, but holy crap, it makes me so mad. I work to make someone else money so they can fire me when I get sick, remove my healthcare, and then thank them for the overwhelming 5-15 days I get to myself a year, if they let me. And still so many work the major holidays, unlimited overtime without pay, and get no time off, because big business has lobbied to shirk established labor laws.

 

[BritCard]

It was a small margin of agreement. I care, but the compensation is so high that I'm not crazy about it either way.


I don't give a poop about what government workers get. Most of us are not government workers. Many employed people are not sitting in jobs they've had for a full year. Worse off, I'm talking to Juza about how jobs work in our country, and you're trying to sell two weeks of vacation, plus holidays as some great thing, when he and the rest of his continent mostly get 4 weeks to begin ANY job. Your article doesn't back it really, but it's being thankful for scraps even if it were true.

We're designed to sell out everything for companies now, and feel like a corporate world where we can be fired at any time for any reason, for a paltry 10 days off, who is wholly responsible for our health care, is a totally equitable and fair system.

This isn't the board for this, but holy crap, it makes me so mad. I work to make someone else money so they can fire me when I get sick, remove my healthcare, and then thank them for the overwhelming 5-15 days I get to myself a year, if they let me. And still so many work the major holidays, unlimited overtime without pay, and get no time off, because big business has lobbied to shirk established labor laws.

It doesn't matter what the margin was. It was agreed.

More to the point it was the NFLPA that drove it and they accepted the agreement on OTA's. Now a year later they are telling players to swerve them. It's out of line.

If they wanted to negotiate voluntary workouts they should have done it in the CBA, but to do that they would have had to give something up. They are trying to have it both ways.

 

[Stout]

Wow... that's a lot of words below but the fact remains that the part of your previous post that i quoted, "even as a relatively skilled worker, you're lucky to get two weeks of vacation with a few holidays off", is not true.

ALL government employees and the "average" private sector employee with just one year of service get two weeks of vacation PLUS 10 holidays PLUS sick days.

...dbs

The US sucks in comparison to the EU when it comes to vacation time. It's just a fact. This is coming from a federal employee, too.

 

[Garthshort]

As agreed to in a CBA signed not much more than a year ago. A CBA where OTA participation is counterbalanced against things the NFLPA wanted.

I have zero sympathy for players.

Brit, I know that the American FB game is a lot more physical than the game Europeans call FB. But, I'm wondering what does the league season for 'soccer' look like? And do the soccer teams have offseason workouts, etc.?

 

[BritCard]

Brit, I know that the American FB game is a lot more physical than the game Europeans call FB. But, I'm wondering what does the league season for 'soccer' look like? And do the soccer teams have offseason workouts, etc.?

Your football is much more violent but European soccer is much more intensive. The top teams in Europe can play 60 games between mid August and mid May. Then pre season training and pre season games start again on July 1st (Each team is different but always around this time).

And that's without international games or international tournaments. A top flight soccer player can play 60+ games, finish the season in mid may, report to international camp 10 days later, play an international tournament (like the Euro's this year that starts June 11th) for up to a month depending how far they get, then report back to their team for the new season. Although it is customary for teams to give players reporting back from international games a week or 2 off to recuperate.

But they are lucky if they get 6 weeks off all year and I've never heard anyone complain and nobody ever misses it.

It's part of the reason I have zero sympathy for players. They already had 5-6 months rest by the time voluntary OTA's start.

 

[BritCard]

The US sucks in comparison to the EU when it comes to vacation time. It's just a fact. This is coming from a federal employee, too.

FYI (and for @Solar7 too) the EU only sets a minimum benchmark for holidays, sickness etc

The EU set out a minimum of 4 weeks holiday and 14 weeks maternity pay, nothing for sickness. But many countries go further.

UK is 5.6 weeks holiday (plus public holidays), 52 weeks maternity pay, statutory sick pay for 28 weeks (although this is only about $130 a week) and a minimum wage of $12.20 (The EU has no minimum, it's down to each country). The min wage here goes up to $14.70 per hour by 2024.

The biggest difference for me is how hard it is to fire someone here. Within 3 months of hiring it's fairly easy, most contracts have a trial period, but after than, especially if someone worked for you more than a year it's a pain in the ass. You can fire people for gross misconduct like stealing, hitting someone etc but general performance issues you have to give multiple written warnings, performance reviews etc. It can takes years sometimes. Otherwise you open yourself up to a tribunal and a payout. You can fire them, but unless you can show you followed procedure they would likely win.

My wife used to work in the public sector and sometimes people would go to lunch and just not come back. (The public sector have more rules and regs on firing people than anyone else).

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Very unfortunate because there are a lot of important mental reps especially that will be missed with less practices. Our rookies especially could use those mental reps to be ready for the start of the season.

This

 

[juza76]

FYI (and for @Solar7 too) the EU only sets a minimum benchmark for holidays, sickness etc

The EU set out a minimum of 4 weeks holiday and 14 weeks maternity pay, nothing for sickness. But many countries go further.

UK is 5.6 weeks holiday (plus public holidays), 52 weeks maternity pay, statutory sick pay for 28 weeks (although this is only about $130 a week) and a minimum wage of $12.20 (The EU has no minimum, it's down to each country). The min wage here goes up to $14.70 per hour by 2024.

The biggest difference for me is how hard it is to fire someone here. Within 3 months of hiring it's fairly easy, most contracts have a trial period, but after than, especially if someone worked for you more than a year it's a pain in the ass. You can fire people for gross misconduct like stealing, hitting someone etc but general performance issues you have to give multiple written warnings, performance reviews etc. It can takes years sometimes. Otherwise you open yourself up to a tribunal and a payout. You can fire them, but unless you can show you followed procedure they would likely win.

My wife used to work in the public sector and sometimes people would go to lunch and just not come back. (The public sector have more rules and regs on firing people than anyone else).

I thought was just an Italian thing
Yes fire someone in the public sector is almost impossible
Trade unions are what they are, they can protect someone who doesn't deserve it or don't protect a good worker, certain categories have more rights others less, it's a just self interest thing for the union
There is not much turnover at all, and if u are over 40 u are considered already old to get a chance
There are some countries that are innovative in that regard(reintegration into the labor market) Germany ... But europe has so many different situations

 

[Garthshort]

Brit, one more question about the possible difference between FB and soccer. About how many soccer players are lost for the year, due to injury?

 

[juza76]

Brit, one more question about the possible difference between FB and soccer. About how many soccer players are lost for the year, due to injury?

Its a contact sport, not as violent as nfl, certainly less injuries, especially the most severe one
Football players are also much more skinny so their joints muscle tendons are less traumatized
I guess the average of player losing a full season in soccer is 1 or maybe less for roster , but soccer season last 9 months not 3 and half and the roster has 20/22 players

 

[CardNots]

FYI (and for @Solar7 too) the EU only sets a minimum benchmark for holidays, sickness etc

The EU set out a minimum of 4 weeks holiday and 14 weeks maternity pay, nothing for sickness. But many countries go further.

UK is 5.6 weeks holiday (plus public holidays), 52 weeks maternity pay, statutory sick pay for 28 weeks (although this is only about $130 a week) and a minimum wage of $12.20 (The EU has no minimum, it's down to each country). The min wage here goes up to $14.70 per hour by 2024.

The biggest difference for me is how hard it is to fire someone here. Within 3 months of hiring it's fairly easy, most contracts have a trial period, but after than, especially if someone worked for you more than a year it's a pain in the ass. You can fire people for gross misconduct like stealing, hitting someone etc but general performance issues you have to give multiple written warnings, performance reviews etc. It can takes years sometimes. Otherwise you open yourself up to a tribunal and a payout. You can fire them, but unless you can show you followed procedure they would likely win.

My wife used to work in the public sector and sometimes people would go to lunch and just not come back. (The public sector have more rules and regs on firing people than anyone else).

Tell people how much of your gross pay you take home. You are paying for those nice benefits.

 

[Shane]

Yeah, Europe has the U.S. whipped in terms of how they treat their work forces. It's not even close. But, hey, at least we're not Japan!

Ehhh hardy all of Europe has us whipped.... I’ve been all over Europe and spoken to many

Tell people how much of your gross pay you take home. You are paying for those nice benefits.

Yep Their taxes are ridiculous. Not to mention the cost of goods in general. I had "friends" who would come and stay with my neighbor for 2 weeks every year. They would always bring two HUGE suitcases empty. They would cram them full of shaving supplies, general toiletries, make-up and so much more. They said the cost of them in the United Kingdom was exponentially higher. That even paying they over weight fees on the bags they would fill would still be way cheaper then buying it in the UK.

 

[BritCard]

Brit, one more question about the possible difference between FB and soccer. About how many soccer players are lost for the year, due to injury?

For a whole year its rare because its a long season but it happens. Broken legs and torn ACLs happen often enough.

But players missing numerous games is common. Soccer isn't Football but it's not basketball either. Clashes of heads, elbows to the face, late tackles through your shins are common.

Another big difference is playing time. Soccer games are 90 minutes long and players are in constant action. Football is only 60 minutes of clock but players are only in action about 11 minutes.

 

[BritCard]

Tell people how much of your gross pay you take home. You are paying for those nice benefits.

On average its about 30% tax but that also pays for a free health service and all other government services.

I'm not sure what you pay in health insurance but I guess if you added some kind of employment or illness insurance too you wouldn't be miles away.

 

[BritCard]

Ehhh hardy all of Europe has us whipped.... I’ve been all over Europe and spoken to many


Yep Their taxes are ridiculous. Not to mention the cost of goods in general. I had "friends" who would come and stay with my neighbor for 2 weeks every year. They would always bring two HUGE suitcases empty. They would cram them full of shaving supplies, general toiletries, make-up and so much more. They said the cost of them in the United Kingdom was exponentially higher. That even paying they over weight fees on the bags they would fill would still be way cheaper then buying it in the UK.

Yup. You can bet your ass if something is $99 in the US its £99 in the UK.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

.....aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddd another thread that's gone off the rails from the original topic.

 

[BritCard]

.....aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddd another thread that's gone off the rails from the original topic.

Only so much you can talk about when OTAs are once you answered the question I guess

 

[Solar7]

FYI (and for @Solar7 too) the EU only sets a minimum benchmark for holidays, sickness etc

The EU set out a minimum of 4 weeks holiday and 14 weeks maternity pay, nothing for sickness. But many countries go further.

UK is 5.6 weeks holiday (plus public holidays), 52 weeks maternity pay, statutory sick pay for 28 weeks (although this is only about $130 a week) and a minimum wage of $12.20 (The EU has no minimum, it's down to each country). The min wage here goes up to $14.70 per hour by 2024.

The biggest difference for me is how hard it is to fire someone here. Within 3 months of hiring it's fairly easy, most contracts have a trial period, but after than, especially if someone worked for you more than a year it's a pain in the ass. You can fire people for gross misconduct like stealing, hitting someone etc but general performance issues you have to give multiple written warnings, performance reviews etc. It can takes years sometimes. Otherwise you open yourself up to a tribunal and a payout. You can fire them, but unless you can show you followed procedure they would likely win.

My wife used to work in the public sector and sometimes people would go to lunch and just not come back. (The public sector have more rules and regs on firing people than anyone else).

I actually do completely commiserate with it being difficult to get rid of bad workers there. That can suck. Some people just don't want to do their jobs. But god, it's just so awful here. I've seen people be fired just completely out of the blue without so much as an action plan or review, people who were hard workers. And if little Timmy has a slip and fall and breaks his arm while you're on your way home, you have a $20,000 medical bill on your hands because you just lost your insurance. Employers can and will threaten your job, but more importantly, your healthcare. You have a slim degree of protection in being able to pay for COBRA insurance, but it's $400 a month in premiums, which is hard to pay without a job.

And that's without even getting to the fact that many employers do everything they can to avoid providing benefits in the first place.

Tell people how much of your gross pay you take home. You are paying for those nice benefits.

I'd gladly give up 50% of my pay to get better time off and better protections on healthcare. Unfortunately, companies here won't negotiate that. They want me in the building, salaried, and working. Money is great if you have time to use it.

 

[slanidrac16]

I don’t care if they don’t ever practice. Just don’t look for pity from the fans when they suck or use it as an excuse.