Our franchise QB

[BullheadCardFan]

I'm tired of sitting in my living room calling the plays before they happen.

This is a problem

If we can see it, then DC's can see it

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Simple question.

We know, and we have seen it from good quarterbacks we had here like Warner and Palmer, that to be a good QB in this league you have to live and breath the job 24/7 during the season.

If you are not practicing officially then your staying behind to throw more with your receivers. You're are either studying film at practice or your studying it at home. You do everything possible to go into Sunday as prepared as can be. Stafford and Kupp have breakfast club at 5am where they study film with anyone else who wants to show up. This is especially so for a young, single QB with a lot still to prove.

Does anyone here really believe Kyler is doing any of that? Anyone?

And as I don't believe anyone could possibly really think that is happening why would you blame anything else?

I have consistently said that he needs to put in more work to improve and keep up

That's what separates the good QB's and the great ones

Right now he is hovering below the middle level

 

[Sparky16]

I have consistently said that he needs to put in more work to improve and keep up

That's what separates the good QB's and the great ones

Right now he is hovering below the middle level

Its hard to take seriously the midget QB who puts more time in the hair salon than the playbook. Did anyon notice how the "fastest" guy on the team go caught from behind by a LB on his long run? Fast my arse.... Can't have a scared QB lead your team

 

[kerouac9]

Why did it work last year but not this year? Why, after 3 years, is this the worst year?

It didn’t work last year. Or the two years before that. One of the mods with Club Level seats near Kyler’s family said they were complaining about Kliff his rookie season.

Sometimes improvements can happen even amid dysfunction.

 

[az jam]

Kyler will never improve with Kingsbury as the HC.

 

[blindseyed]

Kyler needs a real QB coach. Even in a clean pocket his footwork is absolutely atrocious. He needs someone to teach him about going through progressions. He desperately needs someone to teach him about defenses and reading coverages. With the way he's playing it's hard to imagine him being good in any offense. His lack of improvement in these areas is a testament to how bad of a QB "whisperer" KK really is.

But would he listen? That's my concern he doesn't seem to be willing to be coached...not that Kliff is a coach tho lol

 

[Russ Smith]

Come on man.

He's playing the WORST football of his career in year 4 and the org has failed him? How as it failed him more than than last years 11-6 team?

Kyler is awful all on his own. People need to stop trying to find outside reasons for Kyler being garbage and just accept he's independently garbage. His mechanics are crap. His understanding of defenses is crap. His progressions don't exist. His decision making his crap. His body language and leadership is crap. His ownership and responsibility are crap.

If I'm making any change to this team it's benching Kyler.

OK so you want to turn the team over to 36 year old Colt McCoy?

I agree Kyler is playing like crap but with his contract and at his age he is the immediate future of this franchise at Qb so benching him this year makes absolutely no sense. If he's injured or hasn't recovered from Covid or something yes but they would have known that 6 games ago.

He needs coaching right now the offensive is fundamentally broken, particularly in the scripted plays part of games. Kliff has failed to fix that.

I don't think anybody is saying fire Kliff and we make the playoffs I think we're saying we don't believe Kliff is the guy to get the best out of Kyler Murray so cut bait now and bring in a different voice and different coaching and see if we can start to rebuild Kyler.

The way we're going now we're going to be picking really high if you decide Kyler isn't the guy does anybody want Kliff mentoring Stroud or Bryce Young? I sure as hell don't. The best case scenario for this franchise is get some coaching in and try to fix Kyler and IMO that doesn't involve Kliff Kingsbury anymore, or it shouldn't.

 

[Russ Smith]

The scripted plays thing is taken out of proportion.

Scripted plays are just a mini playbook. A subset of the full playbook that you think will work well against what you have seen from the defense on film.

It's not an actual script. It's just a select few plays you practiced a bit more to try get off to a decent start.

I'd argue that in this particular game having nothing in there that targeted Ertz against a team that sucks against TE's wasn't great. But then it's down to Kyler who he targets not the play call.

And the counter is the non scripted plays are working better so if the issue is what Kyler decides to do, why are his decisions better when the plays aren't scripted?

Kyler was terrible yesterday I'm not saying otherwise I'm saying the NFL has adjusted to Kliff Kingsbury and they have his offense figured out. He hasn't figured out an adjustment. Orlovsky said as much on ESPN as has basically every sports and NFL show in existence today, they're all saying the same thing the NFL has adjusted with this 2 high safety defense that most teams are playing some version of and Kliff's approach to attacking it seems to be throwing the ball sideways. Murray predictably gets tired of that because it doesn't work so he forces balls downfield and the offense doesn't work. Other teams are adjusting what they do, Kliff isn't.

 

[Russ Smith]

Exactly.

This is being conveniently ignored. I'm seeing a lot of blame being thrown at Kliff and "coaching" that ignores the fact that neither has changed.

It's the same coaching that Kyler had last year when we were 7-0. Or maybe Kliff did some Extra Good (TM) coaching last year which he forgot?

We have seen progress from Kyler every year and now he takes a step back it's Kliff and coaching?

Maybe, just maybe, it's just Kyler? Maybe he phoned it in all offseason while he was waiting for his pay day. Maybe on getting paid he thought "I've made it. Let's play same COD".

Maybe he's just not a very good leader who takes ownership of this offense. Because that's what he's showing us on the field.

We were 7-0 last year with D Hop and Kirk and Aj Green all healthy. Kliff's passing offense works when he has a good WR room the routes and the lack of motion etc doesn't really matter when teams have to cover a bunch of good WR's all at the same time. We fell apart when D Hop went down and we haven't had an intact WR room since.

Which again is where coaching comes into play, making adjustments because you have guys missing. We are not doing that.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not putting McBride on KK at this time. I noticed him once yesterday for screwing the team over. He's a rookie TE who had little camp action. Let's not pretend he's some secret weapon we're not utilizing.

I didn't say he's a secret weapon I said a good coach would find a way to utilize him better than Kliff has. Teams all over the league use 2 TE's effectively.

 

[Russ Smith]

He obviously doesnt listen to Colt who was brought in as veteran mentor. J Palmer isnt going to help.

Year 1,2 he was confident in his running ability, and so was his receivers. Now he is not, and neither are they.
Funny thing happens to weak minded people when they figure out how much work and sacrifice and accountability
is required.

Read an article a while back about McSorley saying he was emulating McCoy.....Wonder why???

Well I'd be pretty surprised if 27 year old journeyman Trace McSorley tried to emulate 25 year old Kyler Murray they're nothing alike. But 36 year old journeyman Colt mcCoy that's a guy Trace McSorley should emulate because that's what he wants out of his NFL career a 10-12 year career as a backup.

Colt is a good dude, he's never been the starter anywhere for more than a couple of games he always gets hurt when he is the starter, and he always shows why he's not a starter, arm not strong enough. He understands the game, Kyler can learn from him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Its hard to take seriously the midget QB who puts more time in the hair salon than the playbook. Did anyon notice how the "fastest" guy on the team go caught from behind by a LB on his long run? Fast my arse.... Can't have a scared QB lead your team

Now we're just getting silly. He didn't get caught by a LB the guy chasing him is #30 a CB named Mike Jackson who ran a 4.45 40 at the combine. the reason he went out of bounds is #25 the safety Neal had an angle on him, Neal ran a 4.44 at his pro day. He wasn't ran down by a LB he was ran out of bounds by 2 DB's who have NFL DB speed.

 

[schutd]

Why did it work last year but not this year? Why, after 3 years, is this the worst year?

Beacuse last year was the first year KK/KM were able to string together some success and got hot. There had never been a reason to "figure KK's offense out" before last year, because it was still incubating. It was realized last year with the excellent start, the rest of the league perked up their ears, developed counters to what the cardinals were successful at, and we now see the results. KK sucks. KM is deficient, and approaching sucking. Keim effing SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS.

We are screwed.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Colt is a good dude, he's never been the starter anywhere for more than a couple of games he always gets hurt when he is the starter, and he always shows why he's not a starter, arm not strong enough. He understands the game, Kyler can learn from him.

The question: Is he willing to listen and learn from him?

Colt has been here quite awhile

It appears that he's focused on his routine and is not improving

 

[Russ Smith]

The question: Is he willing to listen and learn from him?

Colt has been here quite awhile

It appears that he's focused on his routine and is not improving

I think Kyler improved last year because of Colt McCoy. I think this year something has happened and I think part of it is I just don't think Kyler believes in the system.

Kyler has lots he has to fix I just at this point do not believe Kliff is the guy to help him fix it.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I think Kyler improved last year because of Colt McCoy. I think this year something has happened and I think part of it is I just don't think Kyler believes in the system.

Kyler has lots he has to fix I just at this point do not believe Kliff is the guy to help him fix it.

Agree with the last sentence

I get that KM is frustrated with the system

But if he is an elite QB that we want him to be he can put in the work to make lemonade out of lemons

Pointing his fingers at everyone but himself is not the right way to go about this

KM needs to put in the work to improve and wait for the KK experiment to go away, not sulk

Hopefully we get a quality coach that is a good teacher so he can elevate his game to even higher levels

 

[kerouac9]

I didn't say he's a secret weapon I said a good coach would find a way to utilize him better than Kliff has. Teams all over the league use 2 TE's effectively.

LOL is you’re gripe is that a rookie TE2 who missed a bunch of camp is the secret to unlocking the offense.

He was blocked by Maxx Williams for the first few games and TE is an impossible position to scout and develop. Your expectations are too high here.

 

[boisesuns]

I’ve been following the cardinals from afar but I can’t help but observe a few things about KM:

-the “study the plays” part of the contract was put in there for a reason. Maybe it was handled poorly (I know it’s been debated a lot) but it was a concern from the people who employ him.

-they waited to sign him, but seemed to cave under pressure/fear of losing him. It felt like “he’s decent but we can’t lose even that!!” It reeked of desperation.

-it seems like there was enough sample size to determine that there was significant risk in locking in the contract longer term.

 

[AZCB34]

2.6 years though Is a long time with ****** coaching to not start regressing in fact he was improving each season and then all of a sudden out of nowhere he hit this abyss of regression???

I think you are ruining some peoples narrative around here with this logic. Kliff is a huge problem but Kyler is as well

 

[DVontel]

Kyler could actually be un-coachable & maybe Kliff did all he could with him. That is possible, but we won’t know that until we try with a different HC. Daniel Jones looked broken with Joe Judge now he actually looks competent with Brian Daboll.

 

[LA Redbird]

Murray and Derak Anderson both like the same dog?

Over my head. Missing the reference.

I remember D-wreck, but not the dog aspect.

 

[az jam]

Kyler could actually be un-coachable & maybe Kliff did all he could with him. That is possible, but we won’t know that until we try with a different HC. Daniel Jones looked broken with Joe Judge now he actually looks competent with Brian Daboll.

That is my argument and I totally agree with you.

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler could actually be un-coachable & maybe Kliff did all he could with him. That is possible, but we won’t know that until we try with a different HC. Daniel Jones looked broken with Joe Judge now he actually looks competent with Brian Daboll.

This is the only right argument. We have to find out if Kyler is Pocket Jay Cutler.

Problem is it’s hard to see a legit HC coming here to work for Keim, and hard to imagine Keim getting out of the way for a legit HC.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Problem is it’s hard to see a legit HC coming here to work for Keim, and hard to imagine Keim getting out of the way for a legit HC.

Definitely a conundrum

 

[Arz101]

This is the only right argument. We have to find out if Kyler is Pocket Jay Cutler.

Problem is it’s hard to see a legit HC coming here to work for Keim, and hard to imagine Keim getting out of the way for a legit HC.

Arians could not take Keim and Bidwill in the end. This is like Texans situation.