Our franchise QB

[BritCard]

That you think he was trying to get to the sticks with his cowardly slide says it all. The whole point of the slide is to pull up short so you don't take a hit. If he was trying to actually get to the sticks he wouldn't have slid.

Then there's the "poor wittle QB might have gotten an ouchie" defense. When QBs all over the league are putting their bodies on the line to win games and get first downs, as listed in this thread. To quote Slick Willy, "Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once."

But throw around some more !!! which will definitely make your argument stronger.

The weird thing is the very first play of that drive he had a designed run, didn't slide and took the tackle from the side.

I don't think Kyler even thought. I think he saw the man coming straight at him and he just slid by instinct where he should have been thinking "Got to get the 1st no matter what".

I've watched the whole drive back again on All 22 and there was a whole lots wrong with it. It's pretty obvious they aren't trying to win it. There are at least a couple of check downs in the middle of the field that ran off clock for only 6-8 yards. They were chipping away to get into FG range.

Kyler missed a couple of better options on passes too.

And I'm not even sure from watching it back that Kyler's run was supposed to get first down and another couple of downs to try win the game. I'm wondering if Kliff didn't want to risk any more passes in the more condensed field that might get picked off and the whole thing was designed just for Kyler to pick up what he could, spike it and kick.

I think if Kyler did get first there all we would have seen is a couple of runs up the gut to get a few more yards and the FG attempt.

 

[Zalixar]

The weird thing is the very first play of that drive he had a designed run, didn't slide and took the tackle from the side.

I don't think Kyler even thought. I think he saw the man coming straight at him and he just slid by instinct where he should have been thinking "Got to get the 1st no matter what".

He could have easily misjudged where the ball was at the beginning of the slide and thought it was enough. KK backed it up by giving the spike call, wham bam play until realizing the mistake.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Just remember how far KM over threw Ertz on the sideline pass

It wasn't even close and Ertz was wide open

That's the type of clutch throw KM needs to make

 

[WeBlitz]

Kyler has played 51 career games.

By passer rating his games this year at ranked #19 (Chiefs, all garbage time), #23 Carolina, #34 Philly, #39 Rams, #41 Raiders.

Ranked by YPA he's #33, #37, #41, #42, #43 this year.

Ranked by Comp % he's #13, #30, #36, #37, #38

Yet outside of the Kansas game every single game is in the bottom 3rd in pressure faced. The Philly game was the least pressured game of his career. Only 2.2% pressure rate. 2.2%!

So he's protected better than ever but completing less passes for less yards at the lowest TD rate of his career and his best game statistically of the year came vs the Chiefs in the most pressured game of his career.

Kyler is just playing badly. It's as simple as that. It seems Kyler isn't very good when given time to think and go through his reads.

That pressure rate stat is hard to take seriously when there are clips of the OL is getting beat immediately after the snap. Especially Beachum, Hump, and Pugh. However, it’s negated by getting the ball out extremely quick. You can check out the clips in the Heroes and Goats thread if you want.

 

[BritCard]

That pressure rate stat is hard to take seriously when there are clips of the OL is getting beat immediately after the snap. Especially Beachum, Hump, and Pugh. However, it’s negated by getting the ball out extremely quick. You can check out the clips in the Heroes and Goats thread if you want.

What clips?

It's easy to see watching back how clean Kyler was the whole game.

 

[WeBlitz]

What clips?

It's easy to see watching back how clean Kyler was the whole game.

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Woof.

DJ had some UGLY reps in this game.

I’m curious as to why the Eagles played off so much. They were getting through at will.

Yea, it’s very easy to see how clean he was after getting the ball out at lightning speed.

 

[TheCardFan]

So when your team has lost so many games in the last 10 or so, you're supposed to be...happy? Positive? Just have nice things to say about the team? Or is it precisely the time to be negative? Hmm...

Balance and perspective. Everybody/everything can't suck, get fired, cut, replaced all the time/every week. Go through a gameday chat and see the extremely negative crap that gets said after every play. Again, I would like to be on this board and have civil conversations about the Cardinals but you can't say something positive or you get shouted down, called Fanboy, told to raise your hand and admit you were wrong, etc. Post after post after post is about trashing K1, K2, and Keim (VJ seems to be ok now). Same QB, HC, and GM that went 7-0 and 10-2 last year. In fact, we have improved every year and made the playoffs last year. Let's see how it goes - lots of games left.

FWIW - if this board was 99% Pollyanna's - I would be the one pointing out the majority of the challenges and taking the same heat.

 

[Dynomite]

And that ugly miss of a wide open Ertz as well… The dude just doesn’t have “it.,” period…

I saw Aaron Rodgers, mahomes, and Tom Brady miss easy throws. They must not have it

 

[Dynomite]

Yeah that was truly a brutal throw… This is what happens seriously when you don’t study the game your situational awareness is going to suck. Every couch potato watching this game at home knew he shouldn’t have spiked it and should’ve got the extra yard.

Every qb misses easy throws. I guess no one is studying. Maybe that’s why offenses are horrible this year

 

[SoonerLou]

This is the final drive of the game. I think 3rd from last play. It was an 8 yard check down to Ertz that ran a bunch of time off the clock.

Look at Rondale on the sideline with Josiah Scott in coverage.

Worse case you pick up 15 yards there and stop the clock. Best case you get lucky with a Hollywood block on Slay and pick up 30 or house it.

If this is Aaron Rodgers at QB where do you think the ball is going on a 2 minute drive to win the game?

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The problem with your screen grab analysis is you always post when the ball is about to leave the QBs hands. As a DB in zone you're cognizant of the QB's drop and the QB's shoulder's. Its a tell on where the ball is going.

Also how many times has he been critiqued for forcing the downfield pass when Ertz is wide open? Would have been the same if Moore drops it or coughs it up Slay gets his head around to make a play.

 

[Dynomite]

Most winning QB’s don’t face this sorta crap… Why? Because they know where the chains are. Most winning QB’s don’t slide a yard short. Thus, they don’t have to have their team spew lame-arse excuses…

Pretty sure Tom Brady got **** for not knowing it was 4th down what last year?

 

[BritCard]

Yea, it’s very easy to see how clean he was after getting the ball out at lightning speed.

2% pressure rate. You shown 3 reps hand selected from 42 pass attempts. If I had the time I could put together a bunch where we stone the pass rush.

There will always be reps where players get beat. There is no player in the game wins 100% of the time.

Overall Kyler has had plenty of time, not just in this game but the last 4.

 

[BritCard]

The problem with your screen grab analysis is you always post when the ball is about to leave the QBs hands. As a DB in zone you're cognizant of the QB's drop and the QB's shoulder's. Its a tell on where the ball is going.

Also how many times has he been critiqued for forcing the downfield pass when Ertz is wide open? Would have been the same if Moore drops it or coughs it up Slay gets his head around to make a play.

It's the same no matter when I take the picture.

Here it is again with the ball in his hand.

The slot corner bites on Eno in the flat and Hollywood's route goes inside Slay and carries him infeld in about half a second. Plus slay is running full speed, no way he can stop, turn and get back to Moore. Kyler just need to drop this on the 50 yard line.

He locked on Ertz the whole way from the second the ball was snapped. Even though he had to wait over 2 seconds for him to run his route.

It's a good play design and a good call that should have resulted in a 25 yard gain.

It's not as bad as the Ertz miss though. He was so wide open and he would have been one on one vs a safety. Not inconceivable he could break that tackle for a huge gain.

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[PJ1]

Every qb misses easy throws. I guess no one is studying. Maybe that’s why offenses are horrible this year

Comparing KM to Rodgers, Mahomes and Brady doesn’t strengthen your argument. He doesn’t breath the same air as these guys.

 

[WeBlitz]

2% pressure rate. You shown 3 reps hand selected from 42 pass attempts. If I had the time I could put together a bunch where we stone the pass rush.

There will always be reps where players get beat. There is no player in the game wins 100% of the time.

Overall Kyler has had plenty of time, not just in this game but the last 4.

Where does that pressure rate statistic come from?

I’m sure you have plenty of time, you just don’t want to. I could also put together more clips where the OL gets beat instantly. See how easy that works?


The OL has to only block for a merely 2 seconds(which leads the league) due to how fast the ball gets out in this offense. I would HOPE the OL could hang on to their blocks for that time.

 

[BritCard]

Where does that pressure rate statistic come from?

I’m sure you have plenty of time, you just don’t want to. I could also put together more clips where the OL gets beat instantly. See how easy that works?


The OL has to only block for a merely 2 seconds(which leads the league) due to how fast the ball gets out in this offense. I would HOPE the OL could hang on to their blocks for that time.

It's from PFR. It's actually changed now up to 13%, they must have still been updating it when I checked earlier.

13% is still great. His last 4 games have been 15, 10, 8 and 13%.

Patrick Mahomes, behind a line many consider great has been 11, 22, 19 and 6% over the last 4.

Cooper Rush has won 4 games behind a line while having 27, 22, 21 and 26% pressure rates.

Kyler is 20th for pressure. Take away the Chiefs game and he's last in the league over the last 4.

The O line is good. Ridiculous that people keep trying to blame it.

Kyler Murray 2022 Advanced Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Get Kyler Murray 2022 Advanced game log for regular season and playoff games on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[WeBlitz]

It's from PFR. It's actually changed now up to 13%, they must have still been updating it when I checked earlier.

13% is still great. His last 4 games have been 15, 10, 8 and 13%.

Patrick Mahomes, behind a line many consider great has been 11, 22, 19 and 6% over the last 4.

Cooper Rush has won 4 games behind a line while having 27, 22, 21 and 26% pressure rates.

Kyler is 20th for pressure. Take away the Chiefs game and he's last in the league over the last 4.

The O line is good. Ridiculous that people keep trying to blame it.

Kyler Murray 2022 Advanced Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Get Kyler Murray 2022 Advanced game log for regular season and playoff games on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Are you purposely being obtuse? I’m not debating if the OL is good or not, I said their jobs are much easier than other OL groups in the league because how quick the ball comes out in the offense. His pressure rate will always remain on the low side because of that. If you don’t think that has a connection to how the OL(or how an OL) performs, than you are more lost than I thought.

 

[BritCard]

Are you purposely being obtuse? I’m not debating if the OL is good or not, I said their jobs are much easier than other OL groups in the league because how quick the ball comes out in the offense. His pressure rate will always remain on the low side because of that. If you don’t think that has a connection to how the OL(or how an OL) performs, than you are more lost than I thought.

No. You tried to sell it as the ball HAD to come out quickly because the O line is bad. That it wasn't Kyler's fault he was check down king but the O lines.

That's simply not the case. Kyler can hold the ball as much as he needs to for the play to develop, he CHOOSES to dump off to the first read.

This is evident in the fact that he has the 3rd worst YPA in the league at 5.8. Level with Joe Flacco and just above Mitch Trubisky.

When last year, with an O line certain no worse, he had a YPA of 7.9. 4th best in the league.

Go on say it, "Kyler is playing very poorly". Get it out of your system.

 

[WeBlitz]

No. You tried to sell it as the ball HAD to come out quickly because the O line is bad. That it wasn't Kyler's fault he was check down king but the O lines.

That's simply not the case. Kyler can hold the ball as much as he needs to for the play to develop, he CHOOSES to dump off to the first read.

This is evident in the fact that he has the 3rd worst YPA in the league at 5.8. Level with Joe Flacco and just above Mitch Trubisky.

When last year, with an O line certain no worse, he had a YPA of 7.9. 4th best in the league.

Go on say it, "Kyler is playing very poorly". Get it out of your system.

That’s just you poorly assuming like you always do. Just nothing but full of conjecture from you, which everybody here knows about you.

Kyler can hold the ball as long as he can, true, it’ll make the OL look worse because they’ll have to sustain their blocks for more than two seconds, but sure.

Think it’s pretty clear Pugh, Hudson, and Beachum all played at a higher level last year than this year. Hump and Hernandez are the only ones that have improved from last year.


I said Kyler is playing bad numerous times. I’m just not naive like you to pretend he, or Kliff, aren’t making the OL’s job easier with how the offense is constructed.

But again, low standards from you.

 

[SoonerLou]

It's the same no matter when I take the picture.

Here it is again with the ball in his hand.

The slot corner bites on Eno in the flat and Hollywood's route goes inside Slay and carries him infeld in about half a second. Plus slay is running full speed, no way he can stop, turn and get back to Moore. Kyler just need to drop this on the 50 yard line.

He locked on Ertz the whole way from the second the ball was snapped. Even though he had to wait over 2 seconds for him to run his route.

It's a good play design and a good call that should have resulted in a 25 yard gain.

It's not as bad as the Ertz miss though. He was so wide open and he would have been one on one vs a safety. Not inconceivable he could break that tackle for a huge gain.

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If Slay is facing towards the WR then the QB is not his vision and yes thats a throw that needs to be considered because he's playing the man and not the ball.

In Slay's vision the moment Kyler's front shoulder is towards the outside he's either getting wide or sinking underneath. Not that the ball couldnt get there, but its not as sure as the Ertz play. Especially with a good corner like Slay out there.

 

[DVontel]

I miss Mitch.

 

[WeBlitz]

Also, @BritCard, if the OL played so well, and you hold PFF as gospel, why only 2 of the OL are on here? Even then, both have under-average grades.

Best defense grades from Sunday per PFF

The rookies are doing ok in the few snaps they are getting. They need to get more.

I. Simmons 74.4 (67)
B. Murphy 73. (73)
J. Thompson 69.7 (73)
J.J. Watt 66.9 (55)
M. Dogbe 66.0 (22)
Z. Allen 65.8 (58)
B. Baker 65.5 (73)
M. Sanders 65.2 (8)
C. Thomas 64.8 (10)
D. Kennard 63.2 (20)

And offense

M. Brown 73.3 (67)
Z. Ertz 67.8 (64)
J. Conner 67.6 (24)
A.J. Green 66.9 (51)
E. Benjamin 66.3 (37)
R. Moore 65.3 (63)
K. Murray 63.9 (69)
D. Williams 62.9 (9)
W. Hernandez 62.4 (69)
S. Harlow 62.3 (69)

Kyler has a season grade of 69.3. Last year he had 84.

 

[BritCard]

That’s just you poorly assuming like you always do. Just nothing but full of conjecture from you, which everybody here knows about you.

Kyler can hold the ball as long as he can, true, it’ll make the OL look worse because they’ll have to sustain their blocks for more than two seconds, but sure.

Think it’s pretty clear Pugh, Hudson, and Beachum all played at a higher level last year than this year. Hump and Hernandez are the only ones that have improved from last year.


I said Kyler is playing bad numerous times. I’m just not naive like you to pretend he, or Kliff, aren’t making the OL’s job easier with how the offense is constructed.

But again, low standards from you.

Also, @BritCard, if the OL played so well, and you hold PFF as gospel, why only 2 of the OL are on here? Even then, both have under-average grades.

What a crock. You brought up the O line multiple times in this thread as an excuse for Kyler's play, including posting clips as if they were representative of the whole game, and when confronted with FACTS that contradict that lie you say "I wasn't saying that, I was just pointing out the O line would look worse if we didn't". Nonsense.

Your tried to strawman the O line to make excuses for Kyler when the O line has clearly been good. Certainly better than last year when Kyler performed much better. ANY O line looks worse the longer you make them have to protect. And it's not by Kliff's design (as we saw last year), it's by Kyler's choice.

And you haven't said Kyler is playing poorly multiple times. It's easy to check with your 78 posts. It's also to see most of those 78 posts are largely you defending Kyler and getting into beefs with posters wiser than you.

I don't hold PFF as gospel. It's just another tool among many for judging performance.

 

[kerouac9]

This is the final drive of the game. I think 3rd from last play. It was an 8 yard check down to Ertz that ran a bunch of time off the clock.

Look at Rondale on the sideline with Josiah Scott in coverage.

Worse case you pick up 15 yards there and stop the clock. Best case you get lucky with a Hollywood block on Slay and pick up 30 or house it.

If this is Aaron Rodgers at QB where do you think the ball is going on a 2 minute drive to win the game?

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It's honestly hard to imagine how Kyler can see the field in this situation. He has to know where Rondale is going to be on the route and trust that he's going to be there.

Kyler just isn't a rhythm and timing passer. He has to see a guy open or know that he has a 1:1 matchup and signal to the deep play. Hard to make that successful in the long term. That's why he's either throwing short checkdowns or yeeting it up the field.

 

[QuebecCard]

Yea, it’s very easy to see how clean he was after getting the ball out at lightning speed.

Getting the ball out quickly has kept the GOAT in the League into his forties.