Painless 2013 Cards Salary Cap Moves

[juza76]

Sperry and Gibson are (likely) earning the veteran minimum, and they'll be pushed off the cap if they last into camp. You're not getting actual "savings" with them.

If you think that you're going to get a:
1. Starting Quarterback
2. Starting Safety
3. Starting Cornerback
4. Starting Running back
5. Starting guard

in free agency or the draft at $10.5M, you have another thing coming to you.

I'm surprised that people think that Adrian Wilson is so easily replaceable with a rookie or a free agent. Dude was a Pro Bowler in 2012. He's a team captain.

pro bowl selections is a real joke..fitzgerald was at pro bowl after a sub par season..45 people had more receiving yars then him.ok qbs plays were more then crappy,but he had some drops ,in the end of season didnt see his usual effort playing

 

[DoTheDew]

No mention of Rhodes?

Rhodes has 0 signing bonus committed this year. We could extend him and get his 2013 cap number down from 6m to 1-2m if we so desired.

Or we could cut him and save 6m. We can certainly get a "decent" FS for less than 6m. Either way there's savings to be had in his contract and as such he deserves to be a part of this discussion.

Edit: Also the Cards reportedly have 3.5m carryover cap space they can choose use this year. They may have already found the 3.5m they need for March 12 right there.

 

[THESMEL]

I still think it is early assessments- I refuse to go off last season's assessment under mike Miller for sure- Mike Adams is a Whiz pet- He might be signed as a STer - but nobody will take him as a CB - even a back up-

I think DD is in the mix age wise- but his contract stiffs us- AW too.
I can't tell if Kolb or Skelton is Hit drunk or salvagable - until pre season- I think it is safe to say Kolb is not worth his contract at his best- but if we move to a west coast offense - Maybe?

If we cut antbody it is over money or age- not for failing under whiz- where we last in everything across the board for years- I just don't have an honest assessment without preseason?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I dunno. I mean, Kolb can be fun to watch.

He was in the Eagles game definitely, and he even was in the Dolphins game.

I guess it depends on your definition of fun. If you like a QB who only knows back and right, has zero pocket presence, and is decent 1 out of every 3-4 games, then maybe you like Kolb. Oh, and he's proven he can't stay healthy, and isn't a fit for the offense.

The idea of starting another season with Kolb at QB (assuming he can beat out a Skelton-level talent) is depressing. Despite the poor rookie qb class, I'd much rather run a rookie out there than sit through another 4-6 games of Kolb.

Does Kolb make the difference between a 6-10 season and a 2-14 season in 2013? Mmm... I don't know. I think that he might.


The question is whether your fan base can stay with you through a 6-10 season where you're involved in a handful of nail-biters, or whether they'll endure an almost completely non-competitive 2-14 season.

Does Kolb make the difference between a 6-10 and 2-14 season? Probably, but that's the problem. It's unlikely we'll get the QB we need in this draft, and it'll be much more difficult if we don't get a high pick in the next draft. (which looking at our schedule, looks likely regardless of Kolb or not)

Bottom line is I'm sick of Kolb, and even if our new QB isn't better (a pretty low bar), at least it will be a young guy who may improve.

 

[kerouac9]

Bottom line is I'm sick of Kolb, and even if our new QB isn't better (a pretty low bar), at least it will be a young guy who may improve.

I thought the alternative was Drew Stanton? Drew Stanton is 28, and will probably not improve.

I'm not so sick of Kolb that I'm willing to endure 16 games of Drew Stanton. Keep in mind that drafting a quarterback in the 1st 2 rounds of the 2013 draft probably forecloses the possibility of drafting one in 2014 (at least).

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

No mention of Rhodes?

Rhodes has 0 signing bonus committed this year. We could extend him and get his 2013 cap number down from 6m to 1-2m if we so desired.

Or we could cut him and save 6m. We can certainly get a "decent" FS for less than 6m. Either way there's savings to be had in his contract and as such he deserves to be a part of this discussion.

Edit: Also the Cards reportedly have 3.5m carryover cap space they can choose use this year. They may have already found the 3.5m they need for March 12 right there.

I agree about Rhodes. They should re-structure his number way down or just cut him. I'd be okay with either, but there's no way the Cards should be paying him $6 mill this year.

 

[cardpa]

Player Pos. Base Salary Signing Bonus Other Bonus Dead Money Cap Figure
Kevin Kolb QB 9,000,000 2,000,000 2,500,000 -6,000,000 13,500,000
Darnell Dockett DT 4,450,000 3,250,000 -9,000,000 7,700,000
Daryn Colledge G 3,800,000 1,500,000 1,975,000 -6,825,000 7,275,000
Stewart Bradley LB 5,000,000 1,000,000 500,000 -3,000,000 6,500,000
Levi Brown T 4,750,000 1,400,000 250,000 -5,600,000 6,400,000
Kerry Rhodes S 4,500,000 1,500,000 6,000,000
Adrian Wilson S 2,500,000 1,175,000 1,250,000 -1,925,000 4,925,000
William Gay CB 3,225,000 250,000 125,000 -250,000 3,600,000
Early Doucet WR 1,950,000 250,000 50,000 -250,000 2,250,000
Beanie Wells RB 1,407,500 962,500 50,000 -962,500 2,420,000
Jeff King TE 1,500,000 333,334 50,000 -333,334 1,883,334
Jay Feely K 1,500,000 250,000 -250,000 1,750,000
Andre Roberts WR 1,323,000 181,050 -181,050 1,504,000
Dave Zastudil P 1,475,000 1,475,000
O'Brien Schofield LB 1,323,000 107,125 -107,125 1,430,125
Mike Leach LS 1,000,000 66,667 24,000 -133,334 1,090,667
Reggie Walker LB 950,000 167,500 50,000 -167,500 1,167,500


If you look at the numbers its easy to see who you save the most money by cutting them. All these numbers came from Spotrac.

Rhodes tops the list since you save $6M with no cap hit of dead money. Gay and Doucet are a big number too as is Zastudil. Even Feely is a nice figure. Schofield, Leach, and Walker are also about a $1M each.Wells and King are also over a $1M each.

You can cut Wells, King, Feely, Leach, Zastudil, Walker, Gay, Doucet, Wilson, Schofield, and Bradley and save $28M minus $7M in dead money which gives you $21M in cap space. If you add Rhodes to these figures you save $34M and increase your cap space to $27M since Rhodes has no dead money. These guys have the biggest cap space to dead money ratios. They give you the biggest bang for your buck. The real question is what do each contribute. If you go by playing time and replacabiltiy then its easy to cut Bradley, Walker, King, Doucet, and Gay. You then move to the next level and look at how to replace Leach, Zastudil, Feely, Wells, and Schofield. You can even argue that Wells belongs in the first group. The last group only has one guy and that is Rhodes. Leach, Zastudil, and Feely are specialty guys so can you get cheaper yet equally skilled?

Unless Kolb is willing to redo a contract that favors the cap he is a very likely cut canidate. Yes you take a hit of $6M in dead money however you clear $7.5M in cap space which gets you $1.5M net gain. The other thing no one has mentioned is will Kolb even pass the physical? What if he doesn't due to the ribs? What would an injury settlement be? Do they count against the cap?

You can also see which players are sucking up a lot of cap space. Presently 5 players are sucking up over $47M in space. That is a third of the cap space for 5 guys. Here is a link to see the chart so its easier to read.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/cap-hit/

 

[GuernseyCard]

No mention of Rhodes?

Rhodes has 0 signing bonus committed this year. We could extend him and get his 2013 cap number down from 6m to 1-2m if we so desired.

Or we could cut him and save 6m. We can certainly get a "decent" FS for less than 6m. Either way there's savings to be had in his contract and as such he deserves to be a part of this discussion.

Edit: Also the Cards reportedly have 3.5m carryover cap space they can choose use this year. They may have already found the 3.5m they need for March 12 right there.

According to reports this was carried over and is factored into the present over the CAP number.

 

[kerouac9]

No mention of Rhodes?

The thought experiment being performed here is whether the Cards can get under the cap sufficiently without cutting anyone or extending contracts (which tends to take longer because there are more moving parts).

As an issue outside the thought experiment, I'd love to extend Rhodes for 3 years, $15M, $7M guaranteed.

 

[kerouac9]

If you look at the numbers its easy to see who you save the most money by cutting them. All these numbers came from Spotrac.

Maybe, but then you have to replace all those guys. You're not going to get a starting-caliber TE for less than $1.5M unless you're going to do it in the draft, but then you're suddenly drafting for need and depending on an inexperienced player.

If you're cutting Rhodes, then you're depending on replacing your best safety and top playmaker after Patrick Peterson. Rhodes' number disappears after 2013; if you sign someone, you likely take on future obligations.

You're not going to get a starting corner for less than the $3.5M we're going to pay William Gay, and so on down the list.

If the goal is to just clear cap money without an eye to competing in 2013, then we can make all these moves, but you're then signaling to your fan base that you're not going to be competitive for a year after not being competitive for the previous 3 years.

 

[Chopper0080]

The thought experiment being performed here is whether the Cards can get under the cap sufficiently without cutting anyone or extending contracts (which tends to take longer because there are more moving parts).

As an issue outside the thought experiment, I'd love to extend Rhodes for 3 years, $15M, $7M guaranteed.

A good experiment by the way. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

Our S position does prove to be a bit of a quandary. Rhodes is due 6 mil, Wilson 4.9. Rashad Johnson is a FA and Justin Bethel will be entering his 2nd year. What would not shock me is if the Cards cut Rhodes and then pursued Chris Clemmons in FA because of his history with Bowles in Miami. Same thing could happen with William Gay and Sean Smith IMO. Rhodes would save around 6mil and Gay 3.2 (combined 9.2) and Sean Smith will probably cost about 6.5 mil and Clemmons around 2 to 2.5. Either way, pretty close to being a wash and you get younger players in the secondary who have played under Bowles. Hopefully we can re-sign Rashad Johnson for around 1.5 - 2mil and then be ready for A Wilson to retire in 2014.

For the record, I would prefer to keep Rhodes but I really like the idea of adding Sean Smith (however that is probably not going to happen).

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The board could definitely use more thought experiments.

 

[kerouac9]

A good experiment by the way. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

Our S position does prove to be a bit of a quandary. Rhodes is due 6 mil, Wilson 4.9. Rashad Johnson is a FA and Justin Bethel will be entering his 2nd year. What would not shock me is if the Cards cut Rhodes and then pursued Chris Clemmons in FA because of his history with Bowles in Miami. Same thing could happen with William Gay and Sean Smith IMO. Rhodes would save around 6mil and Gay 3.2 (combined 9.2) and Sean Smith will probably cost about 6.5 mil and Clemmons around 2 to 2.5. Either way, pretty close to being a wash and you get younger players in the secondary who have played under Bowles. Hopefully we can re-sign Rashad Johnson for around 1.5 - 2mil and then be ready for A Wilson to retire in 2014.

For the record, I would prefer to keep Rhodes but I really like the idea of adding Sean Smith (however that is probably not going to happen).

I don't think that Rashad Johnson is a replacement for Adrian Wilson. He's too small and not physical enough to play the strong safety position. He's a pure free safety/rover. I think that Kerry Rhodes more than replaces Adrian Wilson and is capable of doing more/making more plays, but isn't the physical presence over the middle that Wilson is.

Rhodes may be expendable right now if we can re-sign Johnson, who better be ready to be a full-time free safety, or we blew another third-round draft choice. I hope that we keep Adrian Wilson over Kerry Rhodes for sentimental and leadership reasons, but that may not be the best pure football decision.

There's going to be great value available in free agency at the defensive back position. I think you're overrating the possibilty of Bowles bringing in "his guys," though. In part because he's not a great defensive mind, but also because these guys weren't good when he was there; they improved once he left. Bowles wasn't calling plays in Miami--Mike Nolan was.

Man--DRC, Aqib Talib, Quentin Jammer, Mike Jenkins, Leodis McKelvin, Sean Smith, and Greg Toler are all going to be out there at the beginning of March. We could end up getting Toler back for the same $1.3M that we paid to William Gay.

I just don't think you can pay a second top corner when Peterson has to play 2 more years under his rookie contract. It sets a pretty bad precedent for the future contract.

 

[cardpa]

Maybe, but then you have to replace all those guys. You're not going to get a starting-caliber TE for less than $1.5M unless you're going to do it in the draft, but then you're suddenly drafting for need and depending on an inexperienced player.

If you're cutting Rhodes, then you're depending on replacing your best safety and top playmaker after Patrick Peterson. Rhodes' number disappears after 2013; if you sign someone, you likely take on future obligations.

You're not going to get a starting corner for less than the $3.5M we're going to pay William Gay, and so on down the list.

If the goal is to just clear cap money without an eye to competing in 2013, then we can make all these moves, but you're then signaling to your fan base that you're not going to be competitive for a year after not being competitive for the previous 3 years.

I agree with you. All I was doing was showing that there is ways to clear cap room but its at an expense of players. I don't think based on looking at the numbers that the team can clear space without making some cuts. I was trying to target where those cuts may be made based on the value of the space cutting them provides.

It's going to be very interesting to see how all of this is handled. To me unless Kolb agrees to a deal that clears significant space you might just as well cut him since it seems any deal that would carry bonus money into the future could result in even more severe cap problems. The funny thing is I thought Kolb would be a good addition when the team signed him. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out to date. I do question if he can pass a physical and how that can impact everything. If indeed he had ribs separated from his sternum how well have they mended?

I would rather they keep Rhodes and move him to SS and re-sign Johnson and have him play in Rhodes old spot. I thought Rhodes played well in Wilson SS spot when Wilson was out.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree with you. All I was doing was showing that there is ways to clear cap room but its at an expense of players. I don't think based on looking at the numbers that the team can clear space without making some cuts. I was trying to target where those cuts may be made based on the value of the space cutting them provides.

It's going to be very interesting to see how all of this is handled. To me unless Kolb agrees to a deal that clears significant space you might just as well cut him since it seems any deal that would carry bonus money into the future could result in even more severe cap problems. The funny thing is I thought Kolb would be a good addition when the team signed him. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out to date. I do question if he can pass a physical and how that can impact everything. If indeed he had ribs separated from his sternum how well have they mended?

I would rather they keep Rhodes and move him to SS and re-sign Johnson and have him play in Rhodes old spot. I thought Rhodes played well in Wilson SS spot when Wilson was out.

If Kolb fails a physical then the situation is exactly the same as if they cut him. Joe can probably speak to this better than I, but I don't know if Kolb has to take a physical before the start of the league year, when his roster bonus comes into play.

I think that if he's unable to play, we won't know until after we pay his bonus, and at that point, he likely would have accepted a reduced salary, or been released from the team.

If this injury forces him to retire (and I've heard no indication that is the case except from wild speculators on this board), then he'll go to the Reserve-Retired list, and the team will have to account for all of his accelerated bonus obligations this year.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think that Rashad Johnson is a replacement for Adrian Wilson. He's too small and not physical enough to play the strong safety position. He's a pure free safety/rover. I think that Kerry Rhodes more than replaces Adrian Wilson and is capable of doing more/making more plays, but isn't the physical presence over the middle that Wilson is.

Rhodes may be expendable right now if we can re-sign Johnson, who better be ready to be a full-time free safety, or we blew another third-round draft choice. I hope that we keep Adrian Wilson over Kerry Rhodes for sentimental and leadership reasons, but that may not be the best pure football decision.

There's going to be great value available in free agency at the defensive back position. I think you're overrating the possibilty of Bowles bringing in "his guys," though. In part because he's not a great defensive mind, but also because these guys weren't good when he was there; they improved once he left. Bowles wasn't calling plays in Miami--Mike Nolan was.

Man--DRC, Aqib Talib, Quentin Jammer, Mike Jenkins, Leodis McKelvin, Sean Smith, and Greg Toler are all going to be out there at the beginning of March. We could end up getting Toler back for the same $1.3M that we paid to William Gay.

I just don't think you can pay a second top corner when Peterson has to play 2 more years under his rookie contract. It sets a pretty bad precedent for the future contract.

Am I mistaken that Rashad Johnson is the backup SS behind Adrian Wilson and that Justin Bethel is the backup FS behind Kerry Rhodes? Or are you saying Rashad would be moved to FS where he is a more traditional fit?

 

[Chopper0080]

There's going to be great value available in free agency at the defensive back position. I think you're overrating the possibilty of Bowles bringing in "his guys," though. In part because he's not a great defensive mind, but also because these guys weren't good when he was there; they improved once he left. Bowles wasn't calling plays in Miami--Mike Nolan was.

Man--DRC, Aqib Talib, Quentin Jammer, Mike Jenkins, Leodis McKelvin, Sean Smith, and Greg Toler are all going to be out there at the beginning of March. We could end up getting Toler back for the same $1.3M that we paid to William Gay.

I just don't think you can pay a second top corner when Peterson has to play 2 more years under his rookie contract. It sets a pretty bad precedent for the future contract.

My point on those two is a system fit. Bowles from what I have seen likes man coverage and William Gay is a zone corner. Now, maybe they will play out the season to see if Gay can adapt, but with minimal cap implications and a flush market at CB, I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility to see the Cardinals pursue a man coverage corner. The issue then becomes money. If the Cards aren't comfortable paying Rhodes 6 mil, and they are looking for a replacement st FS that isn't of similar cost, maybe Clemmons is an option.

 

[Totally_Red]

My point on those two is a system fit. Bowles from what I have seen likes man coverage and William Gay is a zone corner. Now, maybe they will play out the season to see if Gay can adapt, but with minimal cap implications and a flush market at CB, I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility to see the Cardinals pursue a man coverage corner. The issue then becomes money. If the Cards aren't comfortable paying Rhodes 6 mil, and they are looking for a replacement st FS that isn't of similar cost, maybe Clemmons is an option.

I think that is an excellent point and makes Greg Toler an even more important re-sign IMO. Toler isn't perfect by any means, but IMO he is a much better all around cornerback than William Gay and I would cut or trade Gay, re-sign Toler and start phasing in Fleming. Of course, Michael Adams is such a good special-teamer that he's probably the 4th or 5th corner if re-signed.

 

[kerouac9]

Am I mistaken that Rashad Johnson is the backup SS behind Adrian Wilson and that Justin Bethel is the backup FS behind Kerry Rhodes? Or are you saying Rashad would be moved to FS where he is a more traditional fit?

I dunno what the depth chart says, and I don't really care. Kerry Rhodes tended to take over Wilson's responsibilities when he went out or two the bench, and Johnson tended to play more of a center field role.

I think that depending on Bethel to be anything more than a very good special teamer is a fool's errand. If he becomes a defensive back who can see the field, that's a great bonus, but I don't think you can plan for him to eventually become a starter or anything.

Put him on the Steve Breaston plan.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I dunno what the depth chart says, and I don't really care. Kerry Rhodes tended to take over Wilson's responsibilities when he went out or two the bench, and Johnson tended to play more of a center field role.

I think that depending on Bethel to be anything more than a very good special teamer is a fool's errand. If he becomes a defensive back who can see the field, that's a great bonus, but I don't think you can plan for him to eventually become a starter or anything.

Put him on the Steve Breaston plan.

I think that they drafted him with the same hope as they had for Toler, which proved to be less than a fool's errand.

 

[kerouac9]

I think that they drafted him with the same hope as they had for Toler, which proved to be less than a fool's errand.

And yet they continued to draft for players behind Toler and sign free agents ahead of him. The Cards should do exactly the same thing with Bethel. Honestly, I'm not going to shed tears if Greg Toler finds a different home in free agency.

 

[GatorAZ]

DC's restructure bonus is still eating away at me. We really have to pay that stiff 7m to go away? Spotrac says only 3m if cut before 6/1...

 

[Sam Wise]

I think that they drafted him with the same hope as they had for Toler, which proved to be less than a fool's errand.

Honestly when they took Johnson allot of us where very happy with the pick,. He was a highly rated safety, when coming out of Alabama and we did not believe he would fall any further. Toler was a small school kid with tons of upside and proved it his 2nd year as a starter. Until last year Johnson has been ....awful really only a ST player. I am not ready to give him the reigns yet. Despite what many say, FS is the hardest position to play in the defensive backfield and Rhodes does a very good job back there. Do not assume we can find his replacement so easily.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think that they drafted him with the same hope as they had for Toler, which proved to be less than a fool's errand.

Disagree. Saying it's so doesn't make it so.

Both Toler and Bethel can play in this league.

 

[WildBB]

And yet they continued to draft for players behind Toler and sign free agents ahead of him. The Cards should do exactly the same thing with Bethel. Honestly, I'm not going to shed tears if Greg Toler finds a different home in free agency.

True, he's not someone you need to overspend on. The market trend is DOWNward this season.