Paris Johnson

[QuebecCard]

Being better than Billy Price, Rashaad Coward, and Max Garcia is not an endorsement. That is what Josh Jones was late last season. The guy who held up longer than career backup NFL players he happened to be starting next to. None of those players are on a NFL roster right now. He didn't get help because none of the players around him were good enough to do so.

Better than bad does not equal good. Josh Jones has shown nothing other than he can't beat out Kelvin Beachum to play RT, he can't play OG in the NFL, and he is better than the Max Garcia, Billy Price, and Rashaad Coward's of the NFL.

Given that he's never played LG, a position different from RG, how could you know?

 

[Chopper0080]

Given that he's never played LG, a position different from RG, how could you know?

Same argument could be made for QB or DE or CB which is why it is a superficial argument. The “you don’t know” game is so tired on this board. The better question is what proof do you have that he will magically be good at any position when he hasn’t been three years into his career?

 

[PACardsFan]

Hump
Josh Jones - Who was good at LT and can't see why he wouldn't be good at LG
Froholdt
Hernandez
Johnson

Is a solid O line. Overall talent wise (on paper) I can't think of a better recent O line. And 4 of them are 27 or under. Something we haven't had in forever.

I'm not too fussed about Froholdt. It's somewhere we need to look at down the line if he doesn't work out but he knows the scheme which is a big advantage and C plays uncovered half the time anyway. I'm certainly not worried about "Kyler getting killed".

Between Sendlein are rare Hudson appearances we roled out plenty of mediocre centres and won games.

I went back and watched the Cleveland games when Froholdt played C. I honestly thought he held up well in pass protection & was a very good run blocker. He’s one strong dude!

 

[PACardsFan]

Josh is a backup offensive tackle. He is not good. He is better than out of the league type players. Both he and Lawrence replacement level to below-replacement level production at best.

Josh is a LT. I don’t believe he’s good anywhere else. His problem has always been PENALTIES. But, when he played LT last year after Hump went down, he did a decent job. Depending on whether Hump is healed and ready to go, I could see MO trading him for help elsewhere (maybe Center or DL).

 

[HairZach]

Josh is a LT. I don’t believe he’s good anywhere else. His problem has always been PENALTIES. But, when he played LT last year after Hump went down, he did a decent job. Depending on whether Hump is healed and ready to go, I could see MO trading him for help elsewhere (maybe Center or DL).

If Josh Jones is actually good at LT I would rather keep him there, put DJ at RT, and PJ at LG. That's a solid line right there.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Being better than Billy Price, Rashaad Coward, and Max Garcia is not an endorsement. That is what Josh Jones was late last season. The guy who held up longer than career backup NFL players he happened to be starting next to. None of those players are on a NFL roster right now. He didn't get help because none of the players around him were good enough to do so.

Better than bad does not equal good. Josh Jones has shown nothing other than he can't beat out Kelvin Beachum to play RT, he can't play OG in the NFL, and he is better than the Max Garcia, Billy Price, and Rashaad Coward's of the NFL.

Not true. Jones played better than average down the stretch.

Offensive line stats aren't readily available obviously, so we just have to agree to disagree.

But it is a fake narrative that he was helped.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Josh is a backup offensive tackle. He is not good. He is better than out of the league type players. Both he and Lawrence replacement level to below-replacement level production at best.

I feel like you have dug into this position for the past few years and you aren't going to change your view even though Jones was good down the stretch.

 

[BritCard]

I went back and watched the Cleveland games when Froholdt played C. I honestly thought he held up well in pass protection & was a very good run blocker. He’s one strong dude!

Same. I have no doubts all those piling on him have never watched him play a snap.

I thought he looked pretty good. Very strong, surprisingly athletic. Good puller and good getting to the 2nd level. There's a lot of movement required for that Brown's O line.

He has some technique issues but he's not the no hoper some make out.

He's better than AQ Shipley for example.

 

[BritCard]

I feel like you have dug into this position for the past few years and you aren't going to change your view even though Jones was good down the stretch.

He was especially impressive considering the absolute trash he was playing with.

 

[Stout]

I went back and watched the Cleveland games when Froholdt played C. I honestly thought he held up well in pass protection & was a very good run blocker. He’s one strong dude!

I get the whole hope angle, because he's on our team, but yeah, no. I'm not going to be encouraged in any way to have Frodo as our starting C.

 

[Stout]

Josh is a LT. I don’t believe he’s good anywhere else. His problem has always been PENALTIES. But, when he played LT last year after Hump went down, he did a decent job. Depending on whether Hump is healed and ready to go, I could see MO trading him for help elsewhere (maybe Center or DL).

I could dig that, if he would really garner anything much in trade.

 

[QuebecCard]

Same argument could be made for QB or DE or CB which is why it is a superficial argument. The “you don’t know” game is so tired on this board. The better question is what proof do you have that he will magically be good at any position when he hasn’t been three years into his career?

Nothing superficial in pointing out that it's superficial to categorically state that he can't play LG, Coach.

 

[BritCard]

I don't get all the concern about Froholdt.

AQ Shipley was a guy just like Froholdt. Bounced around, played a bit of backup C for the Colts, played a bit of LG for the Ravens, never held a starting job before 2016. Came in and played with Iupati and Earl Watford and won 7.

In 2017 and we won 8 games with Alex Boone and Evan Boehm / Earl Watford next to him.

I'm confident that Froholdt is better than AQ Freakin Shipley. If/when we lose games it won't be because of Froholdt.

 

[Goldfield]

I haven’t watch Josh Jones tape. So far I haven’t seen anything that makes me think he will be good. I’d love to be wrong.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don't get all the concern about Froholdt.

AQ Shipley was a guy just like Froholdt. Bounced around, played a bit of backup C for the Colts, played a bit of LG for the Ravens, never held a starting job before 2016. Came in and played with Iupati and Earl Watford and won 7.

In 2017 and we won 8 games with Alex Boone and Evan Boehm / Earl Watford next to him.

I'm confident that Froholdt is better than AQ Freakin Shipley. If/when we lose games it won't be because of Froholdt.

You either value good players and agree that Center is indeed a crucial position - or you don't and try to act like Centers are no big deal - because you're so dug into something you said months ago - so you just keep dropping random names along with wins and losses acting like there's some type of correlation without the slightest type of data to suggest there is

Can you say (definitively) we wouldn't have won more games with better Centers?

Every team in the league has won and lost games with craptacular Centers - same goes for every other position on the field - but you'll always have better chances of winning with better players

Centers are not meaningless pawns that don't do much - everything starts with the Center - especially the good ones - they're the real time quality control before every ball snapped

I know I'm wasting my time (again) typing this because you'll never admit having a good Center is important - because the Cardinals don't have a good Center

 

[Chopper0080]

I feel like you have dug into this position for the past few years and you aren't going to change your view even though Jones was good down the stretch.

I have dug into this position because every off-season people tout Jones as something he is not, an above replacement NFL player. He has not shown to be anything better than replacement level. Sure, put him next to Garcia at LG and Price at C and he is going to look better because those two are closer to the QB and will get beat quicker. Dude was not good in the run game. Dude did better than Garcia and Price in the pass game. Likely will be a backup for the season unless someone gets hurt (again), and then will look mediocre (again), and will leave via FA and get a minimal contract somewhere else.

 

[Stout]

I don't get all the concern about Froholdt.

AQ Shipley was a guy just like Froholdt. Bounced around, played a bit of backup C for the Colts, played a bit of LG for the Ravens, never held a starting job before 2016. Came in and played with Iupati and Earl Watford and won 7.

In 2017 and we won 8 games with Alex Boone and Evan Boehm / Earl Watford next to him.

I'm confident that Froholdt is better than AQ Freakin Shipley. If/when we lose games it won't be because of Froholdt.

Bold statement, Cotton!

 

[kerouac9]

The problem is that we have three guys who could be the worst guy on a good line: Froholdt, Hernandez, and whomever starts at the other guard spot. If you have all three guys starting, it's probably going to be a bad line. You can live with Hernandez as the second-worst guy on an adequate line.

This assumes that Paris Johnson will be the best or second-best player on the line. Imagine how bad this line would be if Will Hernandez is the second-best player. It's within the realm of possibility, especially early.

 

[Russ Smith]

They can be....but if you can get good play from the guards, center can be a guy who makes good protection calls and mostly helps with double teams.

It depends on the system too. In Kliff's system the center was critical because of all the shotgun snaps. I guess we don't know yet if that's going to be the case now but if it is, the snap is a huge deal.

 

[SECTION 11]

We could have so easily added both Schmitz and Mayer in the draft.

 

[Dan H]

I could dig that, if he would really garner anything much in trade.

I don't have the figures off the top of my head, but that would be a pretty big cap hit IIRC.

 

[BulldogCard]

The relationship, cadence, rhythm of the quarterback is underrated with the oline too. It seemed more adequate at times than it got credit for.