Parra & Grace & Kershaw

[82CardsGrad]

If a player threatened to hit a player and then did, I'm not surprised that the umps tossed the player in order to avoid further confrontation. Especially at Dodger Stadium. I didn't see this all happen so I'm not going to come out on one side or the other, but for those who don't think he should have been ejected because there wasn't a warning, do you think there should have been a warning?

Of course there should have been a warning. When is there ever not a warning? Standard protocol for decades now is to first issue a warning. If things escalate from their, then the tossing begins.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

He absolutely hit him on purpose. Too good to miss that bad on the first pitch against the guy he got pissed at and gave up a double to. Still shouldn't have been tossed if no prior warning IMO.

Thats the point of a warning though. To determine culpability.

If no warning rule then the pitcher would always say "It was an accident". Its all about intent and the intent here was obvious.

Tossing him was the right call.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Thats the point of a warning though. To determine culpability.

If no warning rule then the pitcher would always say "It was an accident". Its all about intent and the intent here was obvious.

Tossing him was the right call.

No... a warning is not meant to determine anything. It solely meant to put teams on notice. That the next attempt to hit someone will result in a tossing. That's it. And in this case, there was no warning. Hence, the tossing was totally wrong...

 

[chickenhead]

Well, then this is an argument about procedure, then. My guess is that the MLB rule book does not state that a player ejection must be preceded by a warning. So therefore it is the umpire's discretion. But maybe Kershaw thought that because there was no warning, he had the green light to plunk Parra and then there would be a warning against further confrontation.

I notice the LA Times is glowing over his "unselfish" decision. But honestly, doing it at that point in the game, after having seen Parra at the plate already, takes some of the wind out of those sails IMO.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Well, then this is an argument about procedure, then. My guess is that the MLB rule book does not state that a player ejection must be preceded by a warning. So therefore it is the umpire's discretion. But maybe Kershaw thought that because there was no warning, he had the green light to plunk Parra and then there would be a warning against further confrontation.

DING DING DING

Winner Winner Chickenhead Dinner

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, then this is an argument about procedure, then. My guess is that the MLB rule book does not state that a player ejection must be preceded by a warning. So therefore it is the umpire's discretion. But maybe Kershaw thought that because there was no warning, he had the green light to plunk Parra and then there would be a warning against further confrontation.

I notice the LA Times is glowing over his "unselfish" decision. But honestly, doing it at that point in the game, after having seen Parra at the plate already, takes some of the wind out of those sails IMO.

Exactly... which leads this to the point I started with, which is that MLB has been steadily moving in a very bad direction, where umpires continue to thrust themselves under the spotlight like never before. Be it a situation like this, where the home plate ump clearly reacted way to quickly and harshly, or, a case like I referecend earlier when Upton was tossed out for barely contesting a called strike three... The umps are actually looking for fights/arguments and looking for opportunities to become a part of the story. It's sad. It's wrong. And it's bad for the game...

 

[AZ Native]

I agree. I've been watching baseball since the 50's and the umps used to be almost invisible. The players took care of it on the field. As for Upton, I was at that game. Our seats were a couple of rows above the DBack's dugout. I thought it was a senseless call then and I still do. Of course all the Giant's fans thought it was deserved.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Using this "you must not have played the game" nonsense as an attempt to prove something give off a serious Al Bundy vibe.

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[Brian in Mesa]

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[Homer Simpson]

I'm pretty sure that he didn't hit Parra the first time because he was pitching a perfect game at the time. Granted, it was only in the 3rd inning, but Kershaw has "perfect game stuff"* so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could toss one. How would it look if he plunked him there and then didn't allow another base runner all night?

Ironically, Parra breaking up hid perfect game and no hitter led to him being hit, as he was the only base runner at the time.

* - Hard to say someone has "perfect game stuff" when Armando Galarraga pretty much pitched one.

 

[Bert]

Exactly... which leads this to the point I started with, which is that MLB has been steadily moving in a very bad direction, where umpires continue to thrust themselves under the spotlight like never before. Be it a situation like this, where the home plate ump clearly reacted way to quickly and harshly, or, a case like I referecend earlier when Upton was tossed out for barely contesting a called strike three... The umps are actually looking for fights/arguments and looking for opportunities to become a part of the story. It's sad. It's wrong. And it's bad for the game...

I agree, but I dont blame the Umps, I blame Selig. Selig has always had the stance that fighting in baseball is like the ultimate sin, it wont be tolerated, blah blah blah. Granted in the 80's it was probably getting a little out of hand, but he went overboard. That's why Umps are so quick on the trigger with tossing people and throwing out warnings, thrusting themselves between hitters and pitchers so they dont charge the mound,,, etc.

If Selig could accept the fact that this is a competitive sport and so inevitably there are going to be fights, we would see a lot less Umpires in the spotlight. They are trying so hard to smother any angst the second it is evident that they have become heavy handed in the way they treat bean balls and other confrontations. He has done some good things for baseball, but he's a big wuss about fighting. I dont want to see them fighting all the time, but a good old fashioned bench clearing brawl is healthy every now and then.

 

[TJ]

Exactly... which leads this to the point I started with, which is that MLB has been steadily moving in a very bad direction, where umpires continue to thrust themselves under the spotlight like never before. Be it a situation like this, where the home plate ump clearly reacted way to quickly and harshly, or, a case like I referecend earlier when Upton was tossed out for barely contesting a called strike three... The umps are actually looking for fights/arguments and looking for opportunities to become a part of the story. It's sad. It's wrong. And it's bad for the game...

This has nothing to do with "umps thrusting themselves under the spotlight." Unequivocally. This isn't the NBA where we see Dick BaVetta racing Barkley on the court during an All-Star break event.

It has everything to do with Clayton Kershaw's overt and ill-advised threat towards another player (while he wasn't even involved in the game, mind you) the night before; and following through with said threat. Do you honestly expect the umps to forget that the previous night's events ever occurred and turn a blind eye when retaliation is eventually initiated?

If Kershaw doesn't get run, the situation escalates into something worse. Bench clearing brawl, other players getting plunked with perhaps someone throwing at a batter's head.

At the very least, the ump diffused the situation.

But all of this is non sequitur if Kershaw never opens his trap the night before.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

Listened to Doug & Wolfe on the way home yesterday who were interviewing Kevin Towers. Kevin said a warning was issued to both teams (came down from Torre) well before the start of the game. The Ump had no choice but to eject Kershaw.
I still disagree with the ejection, but it wasn't the ump's choice.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This has nothing to do with "umps thrusting themselves under the spotlight." Unequivocally. This isn't the NBA where we see Dick BaVetta racing Barkley on the court during an All-Star break event.

It has everything to do with Clayton Kershaw's overt and ill-advised threat towards another player (while he wasn't even involved in the game, mind you) the night before; and following through with said threat. Do you honestly expect the umps to forget that the previous night's events ever occurred and turn a blind eye when retaliation is eventually initiated?

If Kershaw doesn't get run, the situation escalates into something worse. Bench clearing brawl, other players getting plunked with perhaps someone throwing at a batter's head.

At the very least, the ump diffused the situation.

But all of this is non sequitur if Kershaw never opens his trap the night before.

You need to watch more games TJ. It's universally understood that umps are far more combatative than ever before. So yea - they are more under the spotlight than ever before, mainly as a result of their own doing. Or, at the direction of Selig. Either way - it sucks...

And regardless of Kershaw antics the night before, hitting someone never should result in an instant toss... ever.
Bench clearing brawls are a part of baseball. Always have been. And hopefully always will be. It's how things work themselves out.
He barely hit Parra. He nicked him. Kershaw is a wuss as he waited to hit Parra, and then barely got him. If anything, his own teammates should take him into an alley and kick his ass for being such a wuss.

 

[TJ]

You need to watch more games TJ. It's universally understood that umps are far more combatative than ever before. So yea - they are more under the spotlight than ever before, mainly as a result of their own doing. Or, at the direction of Selig. Either way - it sucks...

I watch plenty of games (thank you very much). And enough Dodger baseball living in LA to know that Kershaw is immature and has a nasty temper. The kid has played only a few years in the league and already has 3 ejections to his credit.

As for the umps, perhaps your definition of "combative" is much looser than most. Umps allegedly stealing the spotlight or becoming combative as you infer is not universally understood nor is it agreed upon.

And regardless of Kershaw antics the night before, hitting someone never should result in an instant toss... ever.

Why not? Kershaw made it abundantly clear he was going to get back at Parra and he did. You keep blaming the umps when the fact of the matter is it Kershaw was the one who plunked the guy after threatening to do so. He was doing his job. There is no gray area here and the blame in no way, shape, or form can be displaced onto the umpires.

If Kershaw plunks someone else, such as Upton (who has been beaned several times already), he stays in that game.

Bench clearing brawls are a part of baseball. Always have been. And hopefully always will be. It's how things work themselves out.
He barely hit Parra. He nicked him. Kershaw is a wuss as he waited to hit Parra, and then barely got him. If anything, his own teammates should take him into an alley and kick his ass for being such a wuss.

Alley? Lately, the parking lot at Chavez Ravine has been the venue for ass kickings. Team doesn't have to go that far to tag him up.

 

[DiamondBacks5117]

If he was throwing a no hitter instead of a one hitter everyone would have hated the call to throw him out. I think they just warn both sides and keep playing. He was pitching to wellt o get tossed.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I watch plenty of games (thank you very much). And enough Dodger baseball living in LA to know that Kershaw is immature and has a nasty temper. The kid has played only a few years in the league and already has 3 ejections to his credit.

As for the umps, perhaps your definition of "combative" is much looser than most. Umps allegedly stealing the spotlight or becoming combative as you infer is not universally understood nor is it agreed upon.

Joe Torre seems to disagree with you: http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=5564550

Why not? Kershaw made it abundantly clear he was going to get back at Parra and he did. You keep blaming the umps when the fact of the matter is it Kershaw was the one who plunked the guy after threatening to do so. He was doing his job. There is no gray area here and the blame in no way, shape, or form can be displaced onto the umpires.

If Kershaw plunks someone else, such as Upton (who has been beaned several times already), he stays in that game.

So what? Kershaw is not the first pitcher to ever talk smack and he won't be the last... The game used to allow the players to take care of that crap. If Kershaw desires to be a loudmouth punk, fine. The players will take care of him on the field. Like I said, I'm certain Hudson would've taken a shot at Kershaw and if he got him, yes, there would've been a confrontation. And the big deal is???
By tossing Kershaw the umps prevented what could've been a more appropriate manner of resolution to this issue. Kershaw, being the punk he is, was also smart enough to wait until he was assured of getting a decision. So then the ump tosses him... and that accomplished what?
It's wrong. And I will guarantee you that any pitcher or player who played the game over the past 50 years would agree. It's not up to the umps to jump in in a situation like this. Warn Kershaw and warn the D-Backs. If Kershaw or Hudson then attempted to hit someone, THEN you toss him. That has been the protocol for decades. This ump screwed it up...

Alley? Lately, the parking lot at Chavez Ravine has been the venue for ass kickings. Team doesn't have to go that far to tag him up.

LOL.... true. Man it would've been great to see Kershaw get punked by his own team!!!

 

[BC867]

Joe Torre seems to disagree with you,

Torre's quote about the umps having trigger fingers was from a year ago when he was in uniform.

This ump screwed it up,

It wasn't his decision. Now that Torre works for the NL, he instructed the umps before the game to eject any pitcher who hit a batter to keep it from escalating.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Torre's quote about the umps having trigger fingers was from a year ago when he was in uniform.

It wasn't his decision. Now that Torre works for the NL, he instructed the umps before the game to eject any pitcher who hit a batter to keep it from escalating.

I said earlier that "MLB" is moving down a bad path... So, the exces screwed up. And, the umps are far too involved in the story.

 

[TigToad]

If Kershaw had sat on his ass the night before and hadn't mouthed off and gestured he would be hitting Parra, I would agree it was a bad ejection. However, once he put the spotlight on himself, he had to be ejected for the bean ball. 100% of the time, either team.

However, my main reason for starting this thread was to be angry at Mark Grace for siding against the D-Backs. Never side against the family in public again, Mark.

 

[TheHopToad]

In the end, Kershaw gets the last laugh. He won the game and he's gonna be the NL Cy Young winner. I doubt he's worried about this little tiff....

 

[AZ Native]

Yeah, maybe he can find a good sports bar to watch the playoffs! LOL

 

[az240zz]

CY winner? Maybe, maybe not. If Kennedy wins his last 2 starts.............

 

[Azlen]

CY winner? Maybe, maybe not. If Kennedy wins his last 2 starts.............

Kennedy will not win the Cy Young award, but he will be in the running. He'll probably be third in the voting or maybe second. Being ninth in the NL in ERA will keep him from it. I'm guessing that both Halladay and Kershaw finish ahead of him.

 

[Dback Jon]

Kennedy will not win the Cy Young award, but he will be in the running. He'll probably be third in the voting or maybe second. Being ninth in the NL in ERA will keep him from it. I'm guessing that both Halladay and Kershaw finish ahead of him.

Most likely that is the scenario