Pats Seem to be Focusing on a QB

[HairZach]

It depends on the context. I have no issue with building a board and the o-line coach advocating for Alt to be the top OL. I do have an issue with anyone who watched the offense last year and thinks OT is a bigger need than WR AND think Alt is a better prospect than MHJ.

Also, the more I think on it, if you aren't comfortable with flipping PJJ to the LT spot, you probably crapped the bed by trading up for him in round 1 last year.

I agree with wanting MHJ, he is just too exciting, there is no reason for any fan to not want him. But the thing I keep coming back to is there is going to be a great WR at 27. No doubt in my mind about that. A sure starter OT at 27? That's iffy. Our offense last year only had one game without DJ and now he's gone, so how our offense looked last year doesnt really reflect the need for an OT in 2024.

Alt is a true stud, and he is not the kind of player that comes around every draft, same as MHJ. While I want MHJ, I will not be unhappy with Alt. The 49ers have stud receiving threats everywhere and yet that offense comes apart whenever Trent Williams misses time.

I also think its easier to address WR in free agency. Teams never let good OTs walk.

 

[speedy]

How does Alt grade out with all the other OT drafted in the last 10 yrs?

How does MHJ grade out with all the other receivers drafted in the last 10 yrs?

Answer those 2 questions and you find the answer you’re looking for.

I’m a 100% BPA guy no matter what. Having the best talent on your roster makes others rise to the occasion.

Draft BPA, regardless of position. JMHO.

 

[DVontel]

But the thing I keep coming back to is there is going to be a great WR at 27

This isn’t necessarily true.

 

[Chopper0080]

This isn’t necessarily true.

Agreed. The potential for selecting a competent OT at 27 is as good as a competent WR IMO. Maybe the draft skews differently...tough to tell. I do expect the first round to be OL and WR heavy. I also expect that WR is more likely to surpass expectations in the 1st round due to FA class, positional value, and overall talent.

 

[oaken1]

Agreed. The potential for selecting a competent OT at 27 is as good as a competent WR IMO. Maybe the draft skews differently...tough to tell. I do expect the first round to be OL and WR heavy. I also expect that WR is more likely to surpass expectations in the 1st round due to FA class, positional value, and overall talent.

right? The fifth year is going to mean more for a WR than for a RT. what with Reek getting 30mil and the rumors JJ wants more...maybe 7 wr in the first...which should ensure a Mims or Kingsley is there at 27

 

[kerouac9]

right? The fifth year is going to mean more for a WR than for a RT. what with Reek getting 30mil and the rumors JJ wants more...maybe 7 wr in the first...which should ensure a Mims or Kingsley is there at 27

Dude -- the fifth year doesn't mean anything for anyone. Someone put up a thread of fifth-year option pickups vs. extensions and it's pretty clear that if your guy works out, you're going to extend him before that fifth year comes into play.

Especially if you're planning to start the guy as a rookie because our roster is so talent-poor. It's only if the guy is a superstar that you get value on that fifth year -- and then he's going to get extended anyway.

 

[oaken1]

Dude -- the fifth year doesn't mean anything for anyone. Someone put up a thread of fifth-year option pickups vs. extensions and it's pretty clear that if your guy works out, you're going to extend him before that fifth year comes into play.

Especially if you're planning to start the guy as a rookie because our roster is so talent-poor. It's only if the guy is a superstar that you get value on that fifth year -- and then he's going to get extended anyway.

its leverage,,, you hope the guy is a star. But when you exercise the fifth year option that locks in your cost control...
an extension is just that, an extension...not a new deal...so even if you extend a guy after three years ...he gets his bag,...but he still plays years 4 and 5 under his rookie deal before the extension kicks in.
so if WR salaries are moving up,..say the fifth year is 18mil.... thats a year you are only paying him 18mil before his salary jumps into the twenties..or more likely 30mil now....and if dude doesnt want to sign a reasonable deal...then you own him for that fifth year anyway at a controlled cost

 

[gmabel830]

How does MHJ grade out with all the other receivers drafted in the last 10 yrs?

Just my own opinion, but I'd consider MHJ in the #3-5 best WR prospect range in the 2000s, behind Fitz and Megatron and in the conversation with Julio Jones, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, and Ja'Marr Chase (who all went top 6 in their drafts).

 

[Harry]

How does Alt grade out with all the other OT drafted in the last 10 yrs?

How does MHJ grade out with all the other receivers drafted in the last 10 yrs?

Answer those 2 questions and you find the answer you’re looking for.

I’m a 100% BPA guy no matter what. Having the best talent on your roster makes others rise to the occasion.

Draft BPA, regardless of position. JMHO.

Alt & Fashanu both rate higher than any of last year’s OTs. Alt is more developed, but many see Fashanu’s ceiling as higher.

 

[oaken1]

Alt & Fashanu both rate higher than any of last year’s OTs. Alt is more developed, but many see Fashanu’s ceiling as higher.

what are you hearing about Mims?? I was hoping with his injury last season and limited playing time that he would slip to 27 or even 35... but I keep seeing him mocked in the top 20

 

[Chopper0080]

B

what are you hearing about Mims?? I was hoping with his injury last season and limited playing time that he would slip to 27 or even 35... but I keep seeing him mocked in the top 20

Big issue with Mims is he is raw and has like 21 starts to his name. There will likely be a wide range of opinions on him from different teams. Same goes for Tyler Guyton. Obvious athletic talent with both.

 

[oaken1]

B

Big issue with Mims is he is raw and has like 21 starts to his name. There will likely be a wide range of opinions on him from different teams. Same goes for Tyler Guyton. Obvious athletic talent with both.

yeah...8 starts iirc....2 in 2022 and 6 in 2023. Thats why I was expecting him to fall. my ideal draft would be something like Harrison. Newton/Murphy, Mims... but there will be a run on OT in round 1 and we may not want to risk getting the leftovers if that run lasts too long.

 

[Chopper0080]

yeah...8 starts iirc....2 in 2022 and 6 in 2023. Thats why I was expecting him to fall. my ideal draft would be something like Harrison. Newton/Murphy, Mims... but there will be a run on OT in round 1 and we may not want to risk getting the leftovers if that run lasts too long.

Oh. I got bad info on the starts.

 

[football karma]

B

Big issue with Mims is he is raw and has like 21 starts to his name. There will likely be a wide range of opinions on him from different teams. Same goes for Tyler Guyton. Obvious athletic talent with both.

at least Guyton has stayed healthy

i fear Mims is like drafting Mekhi Becton -- awesome physical tools, but cant stay on the field long enough to perfect the craft

 

[oaken1]

at least Guyton has stayed healthy

i fear Mims is like drafting Mekhi Becton -- awesome physical tools, but cant stay on the field long enough to perfect the craft

Dude had one injury...he opted to get tightrope surgery...then he was pressured by media and team mates when he didn't recover as quickly from it as Bowers...so he came back a bit too early...then reaggravated the same injury.
It won't be an issue imo...kid will be fine by camp...probably by the combine

 

[SoonerLou]

Question about Guyton and Mims is if you're winning to give up a 3rd and maybe another pick to secure them.Good chance they go early 20s.

 

[Totally_Red]

Question about Guyton and Mims is if you're winning to give up a 3rd and maybe another pick to secure them.Good chance they go early 20s.

No

 

[Krangodnzr]

Just my own opinion, but I'd consider MHJ in the #3-5 best WR prospect range in the 2000s, behind Fitz and Megatron and in the conversation with Julio Jones, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, and Ja'Marr Chase (who all went top 6 in their drafts).

I'd say he's behind Megatron and Fitz, but that's it. Megatron was just a physical specimen. Fitzgerald wasn't quite the specimen, but he was super productive. Harrison not as productive as Fitz, but a better specimen.

 

[oaken1]

I'd say he's behind Megatron and Fitz, but that's it. Megatron was just a physical specimen. Fitzgerald wasn't quite the specimen, but he was super productive. Harrison not as productive as Fitz, but a better specimen.

Fitz not a specimen? My third wife would vigorously disagree. She only watched the games for the gratuitous shots of the fitzbooty the cameraman did every week.

 

[football karma]

Dude had one injury...he opted to get tightrope surgery...then he was pressured by media and team mates when he didn't recover as quickly from it as Bowers...so he came back a bit too early...then reaggravated the same injury.
It won't be an issue imo...kid will be fine by camp...probably by the combine

another way of saying this is..... recurring ankle injury

 

[Krangodnzr]

Fitz not a specimen? My third wife would vigorously disagree. She only watched the games for the gratuitous shots of the fitzbooty the cameraman did every week.

Not on Megatron's level. Not on Harrison's level reportedly. Heck Fitzgerald wasn't on Andre Johnson's level.

All of those guys were big but ran faster than Fitz.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So where does that put Paris Johnson, Jr? A top 10 pick stuck at right tackle and the team just told him they'd rather roll the dice with a rookie than go with him at the more valuable position.

From an overall talent perspective you're arguably better off with Alt-PJJ-WR TBD, but from a roster management perspective you're definitely better off moving PJJ over to LT and going with a later pick at RT and either trading back to get Odunze/Nabers.

The Captain's injury accelerated PJJ's timeline by a year or two, but in Week 15 no one was seriously considering Joe Alt with our first round pick. EDIT: Except maybe me. I probably did at some point say PJJ is a RT and won't be around in 2029; we should probably maximize the OL and slot Alt at LG for a year.

I have said Alt for some time. Having two tackles on rookie deals is a way to mitigate the QB salary

It also fits the Philly philosophy

 

[GatorAZ]

I'd say he's behind Megatron and Fitz, but that's it. Megatron was just a physical specimen. Fitzgerald wasn't quite the specimen, but he was super productive. Harrison not as productive as Fitz, but a better specimen.

He wasn’t Calvin but he’s in that next tier of specimen that was generational. Fitz was drafted at 20 years old because of a military academy stipulation that allowed his last year of HS to count towards the draft. He could’ve went back to Pitt for his Jr year and set every record.
.

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[Krangodnzr]

He wasn’t Calvin but he’s in that next tier of specimen that was generational. Fitz was drafted at 20 years old because of a military academy stipulation that allowed his last year of HS to count towards the draft. He could’ve went back to Pitt for his Jr year and set every record.
.

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Nothing you are saying is contradicting what I am saying. Fitzgerald was big, skilled, and had elite production, but he didn't run elite. There were questions about his speed at the time.

Megatron had everything but he lacked elite production because of Georgia Tech's offense. He was a markedly better prospect than Fitz from a physical standpoint and his career even demonstrated that.

 

[DVontel]

I have said Alt for some time. Having two tackles on rookie deals is a way to mitigate the QB salary

It also fits the Philly philosophy

Does it really? Philly philosophy drafted a WR in the top 10 & also traded a 1st for a WR in very recent memory.

Hell, Mailata, Vaitai, & Peters have been their last 3 mid-to-long term LTs & none of those dudes were drafted in the first round.

Lane Johnson was drafted in the first round over a decade ago.