Patterns of Thought

[Phrazbit]

This is exactly right. The key thing is the Cards beat all those soft teams and beat 3 teams that were better than they were on paper.

The Cards showed last season that they can shut down the other team and then go 70-80 yards to win or tie when the $ is on the line. When have we ever seen a Cardinal team that could do that? So we won two games on breaks going our way we lost 4 with breaks going against us. That doesn't prove we can't sustain what we were doing last season. Especially if you are right and the team has learned that they can win games against anyone anywhere. Just think what happens if our QB play improves!

Kinda OT, but man do I ever think Dallas is overrated. I wouldnt necessarily say they're better than us on paper. If you took that roster and put it in Kansas City uniforms then I think the media would regard them as being a pretty pedestrian team. A good QB who chokes under pressure, 2 good but erratic receivers, one good pass rusher... and then a lot of very mediocre guys.

 

[Duckjake]

Kinda OT, but man do I ever think Dallas is overrated. I wouldnt necessarily say they're better than us on paper. If you took that roster and put it in Kansas City uniforms then I think the media would regard them as being a pretty pedestrian team. A good QB who chokes under pressure, 2 good but erratic receivers, one good pass rusher... and then a lot of very mediocre guys.

I agree. They're sort of the anti-Cardinals. No matter how solid our roster we get no respect. Meanwhile the Cowboys are always touted as a favorite no matter how weak their roster is. Of course 2010 was so bad it erased all the points we built up with the pundits in '08 and '09 and we're right back to being a National afterthought. In fact we're below an afterthought. We're considered cannon fodder for the Saints in the HOF game.

 

[Darkside]

I do think we're improved and I like a ton about this current team. But given our offensive philosophy and our current QB situation, I dont see us being that successful next year. I dont think our QB play will be worse than it was last year, but, as mentioned, I cant imagine us being that successful despite being that bad on offense again.

I really hope Skelton makes a big leap, but if he does not and assuming Kolb is who he is, then I hope the Cards are scouting QBs like mad for next year's draft.

IMO worst case scenario for us is that Kolb plays 8-12 games, plays below average, gets hurt and probably cut after the year. Then Skelton takes over and we kinda tread water. Because then we probably go into 2013 with the mindset of "Now Skelton deserves a full season to prove himself", and its probably 2014 before we get down to finding a QB again.

Given Kolb's cap hit in 2013 it will be very hard to justify keeping him unless he really really breaks out this year, so if he "wins" the starting job he should have about a 2 inch leash from the coaches. There is no point in riding out another rocky season with him on the hopes he becomes average. Give the reigns to Skelton so we can actually see what he has sooner rather than later.

But don't you think whoever wins the starting job this year will make the "big leap" you speak of? Or do you think it's just a case of choosing the least sucky guy? IMO both players are at the experience level where a breakout year is possible. Kolb should have had one, so he's do...but man, Skelton is really do for a breakout year. I think whoever wins the starting job is going to excel more than we currently think.

Your worst case scenario is more like a nightmare. I don't see Whis letting either of these dudes suck for that long. No matter who starts, IMO, he's going to yank the chain after a couple games and that's it. I don't see him letting us suffer through another miserable QB year.

Everyone talking about the draft in regards to QB's, that just depresses me. Because guys like Fitz and Dockett and ADub are going to be well past their prime by the time a draft pick gets anywhere near decent. We have enough talent that we have to win now or wait another decade. Drafting a QB does this current team no good.

 

[Darkside]

I agree. They're sort of the anti-Cardinals. No matter how solid our roster we get no respect. Meanwhile the Cowboys are always touted as a favorite no matter how weak their roster is. Of course 2010 was so bad it erased all the points we built up with the pundits in '08 and '09 and we're right back to being a National afterthought. In fact we're below an afterthought. We're considered cannon fodder for the Saints in the HOF game.

Just wait until that HOF game, it's going to be all about Brees contract (along with media interviews) and the bounty scandal (along with media interviews). They won't talk about us at all.

 

[Duckjake]

But don't you think whoever wins the starting job this year will make the "big leap" you speak of? Or do you think it's just a case of choosing the least sucky guy? IMO both players are at the experience level where a breakout year is possible. Kolb should have had one, so he's do...but man, Skelton is really do for a breakout year. I think whoever wins the starting job is going to excel more than we currently think.

Your worst case scenario is more like a nightmare. I don't see Whis letting either of these dudes suck for that long. No matter who starts, IMO, he's going to yank the chain after a couple games and that's it. I don't see him letting us suffer through another miserable QB year.

Everyone talking about the draft in regards to QB's, that just depresses me. Because guys like Fitz and Dockett and ADub are going to be well past their prime by the time a draft pick gets anywhere near decent. We have enough talent that we have to win now or wait another decade. Drafting a QB does this current team no good.

I think that this is where a lot of people are making a mistake in regards to our QBs. Neither one of them has actually had a full off season in a position to actually get quality reps as an Arizona Cardinal. It is likely they will continue to suck given the history of NFL QBs but that doesn't mean one or the other or both won't greatly improve over 2011.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just wait until that HOF game, it's going to be all about Brees contract (along with media interviews) and the bounty scandal (along with media interviews). They won't talk about us at all.

I am sure we'll get the mandatory clip of Fitz catching balls over his shoulder from Russ Grimm. But that will probably be the high point of the Cardinal commentary.

 

[Phrazbit]

But don't you think whoever wins the starting job this year will make the "big leap" you speak of? Or do you think it's just a case of choosing the least sucky guy? IMO both players are at the experience level where a breakout year is possible. Kolb should have had one, so he's do...but man, Skelton is really do for a breakout year. I think whoever wins the starting job is going to excel more than we currently think.

Your worst case scenario is more like a nightmare. I don't see Whis letting either of these dudes suck for that long. No matter who starts, IMO, he's going to yank the chain after a couple games and that's it. I don't see him letting us suffer through another miserable QB year.

Everyone talking about the draft in regards to QB's, that just depresses me. Because guys like Fitz and Dockett and ADub are going to be well past their prime by the time a draft pick gets anywhere near decent. We have enough talent that we have to win now or wait another decade. Drafting a QB does this current team no good.

No, unfortunately I think the most likely situation is neither player breaks out. I know its been beaten to death, but I dont see any reason to think Kolb's max potential is anything better than an average QB who gets hurt a lot. I'd rather not spend another year confirming that idea.

I do like Skelton more but he is so erratic. His problems seem more teachable than Kolb's and he is younger, more durable and cheaper, so I hope he gets his chance this year to prove himself. Because like I said, worse case scenario we are going through all of this again next season with Skelton in the Kolb role of "he deserves a full season" and then probably going at least another full year without finding their long term solution.

Best case, I am totally wrong and someone defies the odds in a big way, breaks out and/or, Kolb goes to Germany and gets his brain injected with that creepy miracle cure Kobe got for his knees and then heads off to Oz and gets some courage. OR other best case, Peyton Manning and Skelton have one of those "body switching" things like in the old movie "Freaky Friday" and we get Peyton Manning the QB secretly trapped in Skelton's body... just gotta hope we dont face the Giants in the playoffs and he throws the game on purpose to Eli.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do think we're improved and I like a ton about this current team. But given our offensive philosophy and our current QB situation, I dont see us being that successful next year. I dont think our QB play will be worse than it was last year, but, as mentioned, I cant imagine us being that successful despite being that bad on offense again.

I really hope Skelton makes a big leap, but if he does not and assuming Kolb is who he is, then I hope the Cards are scouting QBs like mad for next year's draft.

IMO worst case scenario for us is that Kolb plays 8-12 games, plays below average, gets hurt and probably cut after the year. Then Skelton takes over and we kinda tread water. Because then we probably go into 2013 with the mindset of "Now Skelton deserves a full season to prove himself", and its probably 2014 before we get down to finding a QB again.

Given Kolb's cap hit in 2013 it will be very hard to justify keeping him unless he really really breaks out this year, so if he "wins" the starting job he should have about a 2 inch leash from the coaches. There is no point in riding out another rocky season with him on the hopes he becomes average. Give the reigns to Skelton so we can actually see what he has sooner rather than later.

Hey I almost completely agree with Phrazbit on the QB thing who'd have thunk it?

Basically if Kolb is back next year for us, on his current contract, that's probably great news becaues it will mean he stayed healthy and played well, otherwise he won't be back, at least not on that contract.

My concern for the coming year is teams generally don't win a lot of close games consistently and the ones that do typically have very good turnover margins, we didn't. We could actually improve across the board and lose more games this year on that point alone.

Hopefully the D takes the next step up, and the Qb play improves and our wounded warrior RB's hold up. There is certainly a chance we do better but I think the key thing there is QB play, if our QB's step it up it'll go a long ways for us. If they are essentially the same guys this year I don't see more than 6 wins.

 

[Duckjake]

Hey I almost completely agree with Phrazbit on the QB thing who'd have thunk it?

Basically if Kolb is back next year for us, on his current contract, that's probably great news becaues it will mean he stayed healthy and played well, otherwise he won't be back, at least not on that contract.

My concern for the coming year is teams generally don't win a lot of close games consistently and the ones that do typically have very good turnover margins, we didn't. We could actually improve across the board and lose more games this year on that point alone.

Hopefully the D takes the next step up, and the Qb play improves and our wounded warrior RB's hold up. There is certainly a chance we do better but I think the key thing there is QB play, if our QB's step it up it'll go a long ways for us. If they are essentially the same guys this year I don't see more than 6 wins.

Sure we could but remember the defense didn't score a single TD last season, that had never happened with an Arizona Cardinal team. They could score 6-8 next season.* We only had 10 interceptions, 26th in the league. If we just get to the league median we'd have 6 more. Who knows how that would change the games. So we could improve across the board and win more games on that point as well.

However, I'm still concerned about the reduced prep time allotted by the new CBA not allowing our QBs to develop like they should and they remain the same guys as last season.

*Of course we are talking about the Arizona Cardinals and nothing normal applies to them. The D scored 8 TDs and LSH took two Kickoffs to the house in 2010 and the team was still horrible.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sure we could but remember the defense didn't score a single TD last season, that had never happened with an Arizona Cardinal team. They could score 6-8 next season.* We only had 10 interceptions, 26th in the league. If we just get to the league median we'd have 6 more. Who knows how that would change the games. So we could improve across the board and win more games on that point as well.

However, I'm still concerned about the reduced prep time allotted by the new CBA not allowing our QBs to develop like they should and they remain the same guys as last season.

*Of course we are talking about the Arizona Cardinals and nothing normal applies to them. The D scored 8 TDs and LSH took two Kickoffs to the house in 2010 and the team was still horrible.

Yeah technically you're right, I consider punt returns to be defensive TD's but technically they're not they're special teams.

And certainly the D could force more turnovers and probably will.

The offensive turnovers have to come down. I expect SF to come back to the pack a bit I know they got Moss and they think Smith is going to be better with his improved mechanics but the fact is they had a huge turnover margin last year and that's unlikely to be that good this year.

I just hope we improve our offense and our turnover margin as theirs falls back a bit.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah technically you're right, I consider punt returns to be defensive TD's but technically they're not they're special teams.

And certainly the D could force more turnovers and probably will.

The offensive turnovers have to come down. I expect SF to come back to the pack a bit I know they got Moss and they think Smith is going to be better with his improved mechanics but the fact is they had a huge turnover margin last year and that's unlikely to be that good this year.

I just hope we improve our offense and our turnover margin as theirs falls back a bit.

I don't worry much about what our division rivals do. Those games are just different from out of division games. They beat us twice in '09 when we had our best team in 33 years. Probably cost us our 2nd consecutive Conference Championship game. And then we beat them last season with our backup QB when they went 13-3.