Pelicans @ Suns Thursday game thread 11-21-19

[Phrazbit]

didn't want you to miss a "fact".

and when you're making 30 million dollars and consider yourself a superstar, I don't care who's guarding you, a 19 point night, at home against a beatable team ain't gonna do it.

I think Booker is trying to make it clear he is a team player, probably to a fault right now. With this many guys out he needs to take over. But given the "empty stat" flack he has received over the last few years I can't really blame him.

If Rubio and Baynes miss more time, I do expect we will see a much more aggressive Booker soon.

If we're losing at the half, scuffling for looks like we have been, I hope Monty starts telling him to go out there and force the opposition to account for him.

 

[1Sun]

We have smart players but few athletes.

Gee, that sounds familiar...

 

[1Sun]

That and Tyler Johnson should not be with the starters. He has waaaaaaaaaaaay too much hero ball in him. He played decent defense tonight but he also singlehandedly destroyed about 1 in 3 possessions on offense. I feel like he reigns himself in a lot more off the bench, probably because he knows he has a short leash, but he killed us out there tonight. Absolutely awful shot selection and he seemed to pass as a last resort. I bet he went 1 on 5 at least 4 times... those 4 possessions alone could swing the game the other way.

And that also sounds familiar...

 

[95pro]

Same story, close but no cigar. Booker being passive again with stupid/careless/preventable turnovers. I get it, he's putting up nice stats, but he needs to will this team to some wins. The crap teammates excuse is no longer valid this year even with Ayton, Baynes and Rubio out.

I've been down on Okobo, but tonight might have been his most complete game. He did penetrate and draw a lot of attention while he was on that little run. Without Ayton and Baynes we are just so under sized, Saric and Kaminsky have no hops, Oubre does have hops but is so light and undersized to matchup at PF.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Man what a disappointment stretch of losses i sadly fell zzz before gm ended was sad to wake up and see suns lost

I felt a inch better knowing rubio didn't play

God i just pray suns are at .500 or slightly above when at full strength

Just disappointed today

I mean being a az fan is rough suns cards dbacks

Hope one team is close to turning it around

 

[AzStevenCal]

Same story, close but no cigar. Booker being passive again with stupid/careless/preventable turnovers. I get it, he's putting up nice stats, but he needs to will this team to some wins. The crap teammates excuse is no longer valid this year even with Ayton, Baynes and Rubio out.

I've been down on Okobo, but tonight might have been his most complete game. He did penetrate and draw a lot of attention while he was on that little run. Without Ayton and Baynes we are just so under sized, Saric and Kaminsky have no hops, Oubre does have hops but is so light and undersized to matchup at PF.

Really? No center, no power forward and no point guard of any real value? I'd say the "crap teammates" excuse is quite valid even if it's not quite as pronounced as last season. Tyler Johnson is slightly above average as a 3rd string guard, Kaminsky is an up and down but ultimately well below average backup big man, Saric is even worse now that he's playing like he's an old man (or maybe just a man with tired legs?).

Actually, if we were really looking at a season without Rubio, Ayton and Baynes, I'm not sure this team would even be better than last year's disaster.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Coyotes are pretty good...

 

[Dr. Jones]

That just sucks.

Okay, deep breathe. no Ayton, Rubio it baynes.

This is where I'm at as well.

Rubio has had an injury history hasn't he? We need to shore up that position.

Edit: Nah... Ricky is a 65 to 80 game player mostly. Still need to work on that backup spot though.

 

[SirStefan32]

The way I look at it is that last year we had no point guard and no power forward. This year, we have no backup point guard.
Jones isn't gonna be able to solve everything in one offseason. Yeah, things suck right now, but they are missing our point guard and both Centers. Very few teams could get through that without quite a few losses.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Booker is trying to make it clear he is a team player, probably to a fault right now. With this many guys out he needs to take over. But given the "empty stat" flack he has received over the last few years I can't really blame him.

If Rubio and Baynes miss more time, I do expect we will see a much more aggressive Booker soon.

If we're losing at the half, scuffling for looks like we have been, I hope Monty starts telling him to go out there and force the opposition to account for him.

That didn't work out well for Kobe when he tried it. I'm not comparing the two players games.

 

[Mainstreet]

Booker doesn't have great handles so that's another reason to play him at shooting guard. Perhaps it could have something to do with hand size but I couldn't find any measurement.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That didn't work out well for Kobe when he tried it. I'm not comparing the two players games.

I don't remember Kobe ever trying it. I remember Kobe overreacting to criticism and responding by refusing to take his open shots but that's not what Devin is doing. Booker seems to be trying to let the game come to him without fully knowing what that means (when to shoot, when to defer). But I've never been a Kobe fan so perhaps I'm missing what you're talking about.

 

[Mainstreet]

Man what a disappointment stretch of losses i sadly fell zzz before gm ended was sad to wake up and see suns lost

I felt a inch better knowing rubio didn't play

God i just pray suns are at .500 or slightly above when at full strength

Just disappointed today

I mean being a az fan is rough suns cards dbacks

Hope one team is close to turning it around

You are not the only disappointed fan. Let's hope the injury problem resolves itself. The idea of a perpetual rebuild is a bit hard to take combined with all the seasons of losing.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't remember Kobe ever trying it. I remember Kobe overreacting to criticism and responding by refusing to take his open shots but that's not what Devin is doing. Booker seems to be trying to let the game come to him without fully knowing what that means (when to shoot, when to defer). But I've never been a Kobe fan so perhaps I'm missing what you're talking about.

I'm talking about the stretch where Kobe focused on getting other teammates involved and tried to be a distributor instead of his usual game. This culminated in a playoff loss to the Suns where he almost refused to shoot. Obviously it didn't work. Maybe you don't count it but I do.

I'm thinking Booker needs to be Booker.

 

[Western Font]

The good thing about looking like last year's team while missing Rubio, Baynes, and Ayton is that they are Suns. Now we're now looking for our backup PG, not any PG. We're looking for better size up front, not any usable size upfront. I get that they don't help us on the bench (or suspended), but I have more hope for the team down the stretch and in the coming offseason than I did last year.

 

[Finito]

Booker doesn't have great handles so that's another reason to play him at shooting guard. Perhaps it could have something to do with hand size but I couldn't find any measurement.

his handles are fine he lacks court vision he’s not a natural passer he’s a shooter and has been his whole life

 

[AzStevenCal]

his handles are fine he lacks court vision he’s not a natural passer he’s a shooter and has been his whole life

I think he has solid handles and court vision - for an off guard. He's a competent and willing passer most of the time but the high dribble and the inability to recognize when pressure is coming along with the fact he still (apparently) hasn't fully adapted to the anticipation, length and quickness of NBA defenders limits his up-side as a point guard. If he had to play that spot for his career I could see him becoming a top 10 or so PG but he'll never be elite there unless he can clean up his live ball turnovers.

 

[95pro]

I think he has solid handles and court vision - for an off guard. He's a competent and willing passer most of the time but the high dribble and the inability to recognize when pressure is coming along with the fact he still (apparently) hasn't fully adapted to the anticipation, length and quickness of NBA defenders limits his up-side as a point guard. If he had to play that spot for his career I could see him becoming a top 10 or so PG but he'll never be elite there unless he can clean up his live ball turnovers.

He has a really bad habit of dribbling backwards towards halfcourt, away from both defenders. Wish he'd attack the secondary defender, just as the defenders comes to double, to get away from the primary defender hopefully causing some switching and mismatches. Heck even a pump fake from beyond 3 might cause someone to jump, he commands that much respect from deep.

 

[Mainstreet]

his handles are fine he lacks court vision he’s not a natural passer he’s a shooter and has been his whole life

I'm not not going to dispute this but too often I have seen the ball spurt loose from Booker's hands to make me wonder. It could be he is too busy trying to run the offense and loses focus on handling the ball.

 

[BC867]

And the fact that by having used Booker at Point Guard (which should never
have been the case), he had to be our best player at both Guard positions.

That is a lot to ask of a young player. Doing so last season has cost us a lot
more than one season in Booker's development as a high scoring Shooting
Guard. It was a lazy move by management, back when Sarver was micro-
managing both the General Manager and Head Coach positions.

Devin has to un-do the frustration of it just to get back to where his potential
was expected to be. With all of the turnovers this season, he has certainly not
come out of it as a better distributor, as we are seeing.

With Rubio injured, it puts the Suns back in that same lazy mindset. "We don't
need a strong backup Point Guard. We have Booker." Here we go again!

 

[Evil Ash]

And the fact that by having used Booker at Point Guard (which should never
have been the case), he had to be our best player at both Guard positions.

That is a lot to ask of a young player. Doing so last season has cost us a lot
more than one season in Booker's development as a high scoring Shooting
Guard. It was a lazy move by management, back when Sarver was micro-
managing both the General Manager and Head Coach positions.

Devin has to un-do the frustration of it just to get back to where his potential
was expected to be. With all of the turnovers this season, he has certainly not
come out of it as a better distributor, as we are seeing.

With Rubio injured, it puts the Suns back in that same lazy mindset. "We don't
need a strong backup Point Guard. We have Booker." Here we go again!

We traded for and drafted a backup pg. Unfortunately he got hurt.

We are missing our starting and backup center as well as our starting and backup pg. This is bad luck not micromanagement gone wrong

 

[BC867]

We traded for and drafted a backup pg. Unfortunately he got hurt.

We are missing our starting and backup center as well as our starting and backup pg. This is bad luck not micromanagement gone wrong

Player usage by management contributes to injury. Baynes should
not have needed to be the team savior at this stage of his career.

I don't see how you can ever absolve management of their
responsibility. Losing Ayton was not luck. It was lack of
mentoring a young player.

Only accidents indicate bad luck. Not one of the Suns MIA was
the victim of an accident on or off the court. You can't solve
or prevent unavailability of players if you don't anticipate and
pinpoint the causes.

My posts reflect my career in management. I never blamed
failure on bad luck. And I hold Suns management to the same
standard. Hurricanes, tornados or snowstorms are not the
cause of the Suns walking wounded.

Just the rigors of a long NBA season and how management
has prepared for it. Obviously, this early in the season, there
have been flaws. Or it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[WildBB]

He has a really bad habit of dribbling backwards towards halfcourt, away from both defenders. Wish he'd attack the secondary defender, just as the defenders comes to double, to get away from the primary defender hopefully causing some switching and mismatches. Heck even a pump fake from beyond 3 might cause someone to jump, he commands that much respect from deep.

Harden does this so well. Booker should watch some of his tape tonight vs. Clippers. They're doubling him every time just about and he attacks it going to rim or dishing to the corners. He's getting to the FT line often too.

 

[95pro]

Harden does this so well. Booker should watch some of his tape tonight vs. Clippers. They're doubling him every time just about and he attacks it going to rim or dishing to the corners. He's getting to the FT line often too.

I’m watching the game right now too and just noticed that Harden does what I said. It’s really just fundamentals. Defender coming at you, go towards them, have their momentum work against them.

 

[Raze]

We traded for and drafted a backup pg. Unfortunately he got hurt.

We are missing our starting and backup center as well as our starting and backup pg. This is bad luck not micromanagement gone wrong

I would give this maybe 75% of why we've struggled in the past three games and a 25% share to management.

Here's what I know for a fact. I've been watching and scouting basketball for over 25 years. I've been rooting for the Suns for most of that time. I can unequivocally state that this is the best TEAM basketball I've EVER seen from the Suns on BOTH ends of the court. The KJ, Barkley, Nash, Kidd and Nonsense eras never ran a D this smart or aggressive.

What Monty is doing with these awful Defenders is remarkable. We have no inside presence on D as Frank and Dario can't jump over a piece of paper (Our best shot blocker has been Tyler Johnson). We start 3 slow footed Defenders and one who's never really committed to D until now. And yet we still seem to manage good on ball defense, great switches, and decent recovery. And they're doing it until the 4th quarter. I can't imagine what Monty would get out of good Defenders. But then again, Bridges is playing really well.

BC, this IS NOT the team from last year. This isn't the team from any of the last 25 years. This team is filled with a bunch of scrubs who are playing to their fullest potential (that had never been tapped before). Yes, management made mistakes. But it's ace in the hole is landing Monty. How else do you explain contributions from true G leaguers like Ellie Okobo and Cheick Diallo? These are 4th stringers. At NO point in the last 5 years have I been this optimistic about our team. (Btw, I'm all for you grinding the 5%. It's the best way to get better.)

Yes these losses hurt. I hate them just as much as anyone. But they've been understandable. And we've still been in just about every game (except Boston).

Even with these last 3 games I see us trending upwards.

Edit: And might I add, we have the #1 Strength of Schedule. We're doing what we're doing against the best the league has to offer.