Pelicans @ Suns Tuesday Playoff game thread 4-19-2022 - Game 2

[Mainstreet]

I agree that the Suns asking Ayton to help defend outside plays, but what I am really pissed about is his effort in rebounding.

Warriors ask Draymond Green to defend outside play as well. The first thing Green does as soon as the ball left the offense player's hand is to run inside to help on the rebound. What Ayton does in the same situation is to stand still, turn around and watch.

Ayton never boxes out to rebound even when he is in the position. Take the last rebound chance in the 4th qtr (before CJ and Ingram went nuts in 3s) as an example, Pelicans missed the shot, and Ayton stood right under the rim behind Jonas Valanciunas(no contact between the two at all). VJ had the position for the rebound but was pushed by Crowder at the last moment, which affected his position, and balance, then Ayton had fingers on the ball and tipped the ball outbound. In this serious alone, Ayton did not 1) box out VJ, 2) fight for the rebounding position, or 3) get a good sense of where the ball is. He will get the rebound with ease if he did any of the three.

I don't think Ayton knows how to rebound just yet other than outjump or out lengthen others, or he just simply does not like contact.

Ayton had a bad game no doubt about it but so did the whole team outside of Booker and Bridges.

 

[Bufalay]

Craig played lights out when he started in place for Crowder. He shot better... rebounded infinitely better, and played scrappy defense.

Crowder is a better shooter than Craig. Their defense is similar.

 

[Raindog]

I have to say, I can’t disagree with this. Crowder has really regressed. His defense is great effort, but he’s not long enough to bother PFs and long SFs, he doesn’t have the lateral quickness to stay in front of elite offensive players and his shot has abandoned him. I’ve loved what he’s brought to us and all his heart. But it’s not enough.

I wouldn't mind him as a spark guy off the bench. But he should not be starting at the 4 or getting 30+ minutes a night.

But again, that's on Monty. Maybe one can admire him for being loyal to a fault... but that still makes it a fault.

 

[reebokalone2001]

It’s our defense we’ve been over this. We don’t drop we switch and we switch because Ayton is good on the perimeter.

It’s hard to rebound when your contesting shots on the perimeter. This is where team rebounding becomes important and nobody on this team outside of Ayton is even a good rebounder

It's our defense for sure, I agree. But I would not use it as the excuse for Ayton's poor rebounding. Draymond Green constantly runs back for rebounds after defending perimeters. I don't think Ayton is a good rebounder either. He has flaws both instinctly and fundamentally in the rebounding game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you just ignore what you’ve been told on this take.

Figures.

Is Ayton in the paint battling on defense for alot of those rebounds? Oh what’s that? No he’s not. Yes Ayton contest 3s and turn around and run down there while the ball is in the air get position and the rebound to. That’s super realistic.

Ah ok

Lol. Yeah bud. That’s what’s happening. I’ve actually addressed that point multiple times now. That’s not what happened tonight. What you’re describing isn’t uncommon, unfortunately it’s not descriptive or accurate about what happened tonight. After last game I keyed on Ayton all game. He switched and remained on the outside for maybe three possessions tonight. So you keep blathering on about generalities whilst I talk about what actually happened in tonight’s game with everyone else.

 

[Finito]

I agree that the Suns asking Ayton to help defend outside plays, but what I am really pissed about is his effort in rebounding.

Warriors ask Draymond Green to defend outside play as well. The first thing Green does as soon as the ball left the offense player's hand is to run inside to help on the rebound. What Ayton does in the same situation is to stand still, turn around and watch.

Ayton never boxes out to rebound even when he is in the position. Take the last rebound chance in the 4th qtr (before CJ and Ingram went nuts in 3s) as an example, Pelicans missed the shot, and Ayton stood right under the rim behind Jonas Valanciunas(no contact between the two at all). VJ had the position for the rebound but was pushed by Crowder at the last moment, which affected his position, and balance, then Ayton had fingers on the ball and tipped the ball outbound. In this serious alone, Ayton did not 1) box out VJ, 2) fight for the rebounding position, or 3) get a good sense of where the ball is. He will get the rebound with ease if he did any of the three.

I don't think Ayton knows how to rebound just yet other than outjump or out lengthen others, or he just simply does not like contact.

Two different players. Green is much smaller and faster asking a 7 footer to move like that is pretty unrealistic.

But yes this off season it’s rebound and continue to work on offense

 

[Mainstreet]

He's been in a slump... along with Payne, Cam, and Crowder.

The last two games Craig has been scoreless, no shots and only 1 rebound.

 

[Bufalay]

I wouldn't mind him as a spark guy off the bench. But he should not be starting at the 4 or getting 30+ minutes a night.

But again, that's on Monty. Maybe one can admire him for being loyal to a fault... but that still makes it a fault.

Problem is this team isn't going to improve by acquiring better players. They're gonna be way over the cap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton wasn't the only one. The transition defense was beyond awful.

Oh for sure. I thought our entire defense was atrocious tonight other than a brief spurt when bridges went DPOY candidate. But it wasn’t sustained and no one else joined him.

 

[Finito]

Lol. Yeah bud. That’s what’s happening. I’ve actually addressed that point multiple times now. That’s not what happened tonight. What you’re describing isn’t uncommon, unfortunately it’s not descriptive or accurate about what happened tonight. After last game I keyed on Ayton all game. He switched and remained on the outside for maybe three possessions tonight. So you keep blathering on about generalities whilst I talk about what actually happened in tonight’s game with everyone else.

Ok

 

[1tinsoldier]

reality check:
1. the Pels outplayed us on our home court in the 2nd half of both games
2. we didn't lose tonight because of injury. Booker had already given us significantly more than his normal production.
3. our 2 stars had to take turns carrying us while our role players did not get the job done for 2 straight games. that's not our winning formula. adjustments must be made.
4. Booker has chronic hamstring issues. how many times does this have to happen before Book and his coach accept that he MUST pace himself?
5. our record breaking season is in jeopardy

 

[Finito]

The last two games Craig has been scoreless, no shots and only 1 rebound.

Him and Crowder are giving us nothing.

It’s a giant hole.

 

[Covert Rain]

Crowder is killing us at the 4. The last two games?

FG = 2/15
3 PT = 0/9
7 rebounds

The very definition of not showing up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is what this board does. Well certain guys

We lost cause Ayton

Not because
Crowder went 1/10
Chris Paul couldn’t hit anything
Bridges our defensive stopper got abused over and over
Our bench gave us nothing

The TEAM was trash tonight, but yes Ayton sucks I agree

Naw. We talk about all their failures but then you inevitably start up the Ayton propaganda and it becomes a focus of the conversation and it seems like we are pinning it all on Ayton because you keep defending a subpar night. I know I for instance immediately blamed Paul, Payne, crowder, bookers hammy, coach getting outcoached and Ayton in the same post. Then y’all started defending Ayton like he wasn’t to blame for the mess like everyone else. Keep it real now.

 

[Mainstreet]

Him and Crowder are giving us nothing.

It’s a giant hole.

Crowder is killing us at the 4. The last two games?

FG = 2/15
3 PT = 0/9
7 rebounds

The very definition of not showing up.

It could be argued all the Suns forwards are small forwards.

 

[Finito]

Oh for sure. I thought our entire defense was atrocious tonight other than a brief spurt when bridges went DPOY candidate. But it wasn’t sustained and no one else joined him.

Bridges got worked the entire night. Not much you can do though when there shooting 55% from 3.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Problem is this team isn't going to improve by acquiring better players. They're gonna be way over the cap.

They’ll have to get late career guys like a Jeff green or hit a home run late in the draft or second round. I can’t tell you how jealous I am of the two rooks on the pels and the warriors finding and developing Poole.

 

[Finito]

Naw. We talk about all their failures but then you inevitably start up the Ayton propaganda and it becomes a focus of the conversation and it seems like we are pinning it all on Ayton because you keep defending a subpar night. I know I for instance immediately blamed Paul, Payne, crowder, bookers hammy, coach getting outcoached and Ayton in the same post. Then y’all started defending Ayton like he wasn’t to blame for the mess like everyone else. Keep it real now.

What. Your saying people profile you for being an Ayton hater? No your kidding me. How would that ever happen. I’m not defending Ayton I’m telling you the reason why his rebounding is what it is, but you said you keyed in on him the entire game so you probably payed more attention than me.

I really honestly don’t care. This entire team was trash tonight.

 

[Finito]

Play Ayton and McGee together

Crowder needs to be benched. McGee is more athletic a better defender and rebounder

 

[Mainstreet]

They’ll have to get late career guys like a Jeff green or hit a home run late in the draft or second round. I can’t tell you how jealous I am of the two rooks on the pels and the warriors finding and developing Poole.

The Suns have no draft picks in 2022.

 

[Raindog]

Play Ayton and McGee together

Crowder needs to be benched. McGee is more athletic a better defender and rebounder

Yeah, that should/would be obvious to anyone. But I guarantee Monty won't even think of trying it until the Suns are potentially staring at a 3-1 deficit... and quite probably not even then.

I hope I am wrong, but I worry we might be stuck with another "great regular season, but shoots us in the foot in the post-season" kind of coach in Monty. I mean it's kind of a Suns tradition, after all.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, that should/would be obvious to anyone. But I guarantee Monty won't even think of trying it until the Suns are potentially staring at a 3-1 deficit... and quite probably not even then.

I hope I am wrong, but I worry we might be stuck with another "great regular season, but shoots us in the foot in the post-season" kind of coach in Monty. I mean it's kind of a Suns tradition, after all.

This isn't the problem. The Suns went 8-0 in the bubble and went to the finals last season. If there is a flaw, the Suns need more size at forward.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It could be argued all the Suns forwards are small forwards.

I’d say bridges is a SF and the other three are swing forwards. The issue is they’re undersized or average sized swing forwards. Not a single one is an above average size swing forward. But there’s no real PF on the roster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What. Your saying people profile you for being an Ayton hater? No your kidding me. How would that ever happen. I’m not defending Ayton I’m telling you the reason why his rebounding is what it is, but you said you keyed in on him the entire game so you probably payed more attention than me.

I really honestly don’t care. This entire team was trash tonight.

Well we can certainly agree on the last sentence.

And I criticize Ayton more than most, but I’m not really a hater. You never see me call for trading him. And I’ve been onboard extending him. Doesn’t mean I can’t see, be frustrated by, and comment on his issues.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Suns have no draft picks in 2022.

Trust me, I know.