People are arguing their points incorrectly

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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For years I hear the same arguments . . .

It's the crappy QB!

Can't blame the QB, the oline doesn't give him time!

Our QB doesn't have anyone to throw to other than Fitz!

Our WR's are good, the QB can't find 'em!

Our talent is fine, it's crappy coaching!

Folks, these are all narrowminded, pigeon-holed arguments. It's the SUM OF THE WHOLE. These things are all a confluence of one big suck . . . the Arizona Cardinals. This is my honest assessment:

1. Graves sucks at (a) drafting, (b) signing good FAs that fit the system, (c) resigning key in-house FAs, (d) enforcing necessary changes on whiz's staff. Some of you are going to cry "but Whiz has all the power!" A good GM stands up to ownership to ensure he has authority and overrides a coach when necessary for the betterment of the team. That's not happening. His track record is crap.

2. Whiz looks terrible. His loyalty to his offensive coaches is appalling. Either his (a) refusal to recognize some areas that need improvement or (b) his loyalty to some players that don't make plays is crushing this team in terms of the oline and passrush. His playcalling (and I do believe it's his playcalling) is awful. We got a glimpse of what our run game could be yesterday. How does the coach not know that before the fourth game of the season? If he did, wouldn't we have seen more of it in close games 1 and 2? As for game 3, yeah he didn't have Beanie, but NOR DID HE HAVE AN NFL CALIBER BACKUP RUNNING BACK (which should have been a HUGE priority when ryan williams went down). That's on Whiz too (and Graves, for that matter).

3. Grimm just has to go. No one on our offensive line other than sendlein has improved during his time here (and I would argue that Sendlein likely improved on his own despite Grimm). And he wanted Levi Brown. He sucks.

4. Horton's D is continuing to have HUGE mental gaffs (see Nicks running completely free again). This is week 4. There have been two months in which to implement his D. It should be showing signs of life. Instead it's rolling over at the end of games.

5. Kolb. Limited starts. I get it. Fifth year in the league. Not a rookie. From my perspective he doesn't read the field well (locks onto Fitz too often - see Rolle's interception and last play of game throwing to covered Fitz on slant). NO pocket presence (flushes when he needn't do so - he's hearing ghosts - gotta nut up more than that - christ it's only been 4 games). He IS forcing balls (couple to Fitz, the game-ending INT to Heap against Washington). He's not showing anything special. Can he be adequate, sure. But I think last year shell-shocked a ton of us into buying into the illusion that kolb was good. he's not.

6. Levi and Keith - Perhaps (and I'll only say "perhaps") they are better run blockers. but even then, they are not premier run blockers. if they were, we'd be running on 3rd and 1 or 2 instead of passing. we know those guys ain't getting us the tough yards. and they aren't getting to the second level (something great run blockers do). and they're just awful in pass pro. is it any coincidence that the team started playing MARKEDLY better when jeremy bridges entered the game? no way jose. if it was limitations physically with levi, i'd say "okay, he's trying." but more often than not he simply stops blocking. i see our offensive line (other than Sendlein and Colledge) standing around watching tackles, or helping people off the ground more than on the ground mashing their man. it's disheartening, and it's making a mediocre QB (kolb) look even worse.

7. No second WR - Let's call a spade a spade. We have good depth, but no true #2. I'm not talking a 1a and 1b like fitz and bolding. i'm talking a true #2. a nate burleson type. a vet that knows how to get open and make plays. hmmm, sounds like breaston (who had 90+ yards the other day). that's another one on graves (who let him leave) and whiz (who likely didn't argue enough to keep him). having a QB with only eyes for fitz doesn't help these guys, but make a few plays so that the defense at least takes you seriously. anyone see the new kid's book "Where's Roberts?"

8. Zastidil is a disaster.

9. OLB. everything everyone's said about these guys is true. love that they're warriors. don't love that they have to be brought to the stadium from the retirement home. the neglect of this position is deafening. hello Graves and Whiz again.

10. Jefferson. the new tommy knight (sans injuries). he seemingly always there to NOT make the play. PP is a very close second here, but i'll give him a little pass for his punt returning abilities and his pedigree. regardless, this guy is NOT ready for prime time. would've liked to have seen toler. shame we won't.

it's ALL these things together that make us the 1-3 disaster that we are today. not one of 'em as many of you are arguing to defend against one of the other arguments. it's ALL of these!!!

now for some positive . . .

beanie finally did what i thought he could. i've been waiting to see this beanie. i thought it could exist if he could get healthy. now i just hope that whiz realizes he needs to go all SMEL on the vikings' arses!!!

fitz is just amazingly unreal. never ceases to amaze me.

i truly believe we may have some young defensive talent with dwash, dumpster dan, PP, carter and acho. dwash played like a man among boys yesterday. seemingly everywhere. but faded at end of game. if we can keep dumpster on field more, other teams' run games will continue to suffer. i believe PP will develop into something special. carter is a blessed selection. i think he's going to make our NG rotation very formidable! acho has shown me spurts of good contain, strength, and zone awareness. i hope he sees the field more. is he going to be flashy . . . no. but he can be a solid starter if we shore up the other side.

docket and campbell showed flashes of what they could bring. unfortunately, with everyone else, they faded at the end too. i don't know to what to attribute these issues, but something's gotta be done to keep these guys fresh and keep their motors revving.
 

Cheesebeef

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I'm sure that Ouchie appreciates the time and effort you put into refuting his well thought-out arguments.

JTS

lol... i was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to pile on defending big bro's pretty coherent argument which speaks for itself IMO.
 

PACardsFan

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For years I hear the same arguments . . .

It's the crappy QB!

Can't blame the QB, the oline doesn't give him time!

Our QB doesn't have anyone to throw to other than Fitz!

Our WR's are good, the QB can't find 'em!

Our talent is fine, it's crappy coaching!

Folks, these are all narrowminded, pigeon-holed arguments. It's the SUM OF THE WHOLE. These things are all a confluence of one big suck . . . the Arizona Cardinals. This is my honest assessment:

1. Graves sucks at (a) drafting, (b) signing good FAs that fit the system, (c) resigning key in-house FAs, (d) enforcing necessary changes on whiz's staff. Some of you are going to cry "but Whiz has all the power!" A good GM stands up to ownership to ensure he has authority and overrides a coach when necessary for the betterment of the team. That's not happening. His track record is crap.

2. Whiz looks terrible. His loyalty to his offensive coaches is appalling. Either his (a) refusal to recognize some areas that need improvement or (b) his loyalty to some players that don't make plays is crushing this team in terms of the oline and passrush. His playcalling (and I do believe it's his playcalling) is awful. We got a glimpse of what our run game could be yesterday. How does the coach not know that before the fourth game of the season? If he did, wouldn't we have seen more of it in close games 1 and 2? As for game 3, yeah he didn't have Beanie, but NOR DID HE HAVE AN NFL CALIBER BACKUP RUNNING BACK (which should have been a HUGE priority when ryan williams went down). That's on Whiz too (and Graves, for that matter).

3. Grimm just has to go. No one on our offensive line other than sendlein has improved during his time here (and I would argue that Sendlein likely improved on his own despite Grimm). And he wanted Levi Brown. He sucks.

4. Horton's D is continuing to have HUGE mental gaffs (see Nicks running completely free again). This is week 4. There have been two months in which to implement his D. It should be showing signs of life. Instead it's rolling over at the end of games.

5. Kolb. Limited starts. I get it. Fifth year in the league. Not a rookie. From my perspective he doesn't read the field well (locks onto Fitz too often - see Rolle's interception and last play of game throwing to covered Fitz on slant). NO pocket presence (flushes when he needn't do so - he's hearing ghosts - gotta nut up more than that - christ it's only been 4 games). He IS forcing balls (couple to Fitz, the game-ending INT to Heap against Washington). He's not showing anything special. Can he be adequate, sure. But I think last year shell-shocked a ton of us into buying into the illusion that kolb was good. he's not.

6. Levi and Keith - Perhaps (and I'll only say "perhaps") they are better run blockers. but even then, they are not premier run blockers. if they were, we'd be running on 3rd and 1 or 2 instead of passing. we know those guys ain't getting us the tough yards. and they aren't getting to the second level (something great run blockers do). and they're just awful in pass pro. is it any coincidence that the team started playing MARKEDLY better when jeremy bridges entered the game? no way jose. if it was limitations physically with levi, i'd say "okay, he's trying." but more often than not he simply stops blocking. i see our offensive line (other than Sendlein and Colledge) standing around watching tackles, or helping people off the ground more than on the ground mashing their man. it's disheartening, and it's making a mediocre QB (kolb) look even worse.

7. No second WR - Let's call a spade a spade. We have good depth, but no true #2. I'm not talking a 1a and 1b like fitz and bolding. i'm talking a true #2. a nate burleson type. a vet that knows how to get open and make plays. hmmm, sounds like breaston (who had 90+ yards the other day). that's another one on graves (who let him leave) and whiz (who likely didn't argue enough to keep him). having a QB with only eyes for fitz doesn't help these guys, but make a few plays so that the defense at least takes you seriously. anyone see the new kid's book "Where's Roberts?"

8. Zastidil is a disaster.

9. OLB. everything everyone's said about these guys is true. love that they're warriors. don't love that they have to be brought to the stadium from the retirement home. the neglect of this position is deafening. hello Graves and Whiz again.

10. Jefferson. the new tommy knight (sans injuries). he seemingly always there to NOT make the play. PP is a very close second here, but i'll give him a little pass for his punt returning abilities and his pedigree. regardless, this guy is NOT ready for prime time. would've liked to have seen toler. shame we won't.

it's ALL these things together that make us the 1-3 disaster that we are today. not one of 'em as many of you are arguing to defend against one of the other arguments. it's ALL of these!!!

now for some positive . . .

beanie finally did what i thought he could. i've been waiting to see this beanie. i thought it could exist if he could get healthy. now i just hope that whiz realizes he needs to go all SMEL on the vikings' arses!!!

fitz is just amazingly unreal. never ceases to amaze me.

i truly believe we may have some young defensive talent with dwash, dumpster dan, PP, carter and acho. dwash played like a man among boys yesterday. seemingly everywhere. but faded at end of game. if we can keep dumpster on field more, other teams' run games will continue to suffer. i believe PP will develop into something special. carter is a blessed selection. i think he's going to make our NG rotation very formidable! acho has shown me spurts of good contain, strength, and zone awareness. i hope he sees the field more. is he going to be flashy . . . no. but he can be a solid starter if we shore up the other side.

docket and campbell showed flashes of what they could bring. unfortunately, with everyone else, they faded at the end too. i don't know to what to attribute these issues, but something's gotta be done to keep these guys fresh and keep their motors revving.

During the offseason & even just a couple of weeks ago, I would have argued some of these points...............but, this is DEAD ON!! Very good & accurate post. Whiz's biggest fault is his loyalty to certain coaches & to players that can NO LONGER play this game. If this doesn't turn around fast, this season is OVER. There's no bigger Whiz fan on this board than me, but my patience is wearing thin. I thought I would never say that. Oh well.
 

splitsecond

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I agree with most everything said here, but I think the biggest culprits are Kolb making piss poor decisions with the football, not going through his reads naturally and locking on to Fitz, combined with some absolutely bizarre playcalling.

One thing I notice yesterday is whenever we run 5 wide, we don't block well enough for Kolb to let something develop downfield. When we run 2 TE with one or 2 WR, we tend to bunch ALL the routs over the center. There are quite a few plays where Kolb simply doesn't have any options by the time the D gets to him, which is far too fast.
 

conraddobler

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It's a very well thought out post, it all comes back to ultimately the FO, and before that ownership.

Ownership is the unmovable object, it can't or won't hire a competent GM and therefore all else that flows down from that spawned by original error.

What good does happen is accidental or more correctly put, what good does happen isn't nearly enough to outweigh what good DOSEN'T happen. When you think of any bad employee, not all they do is really bad, a few things they do impede their reaching ultimate success. So you don't have to find something stupid everywhere to be right here, the easiest thing to do is to compare how a successful organization works to how ours works and there the differences will stick out all over the place.

I will say this in Whiz's defense, over time being hamstrung by this FO will corrode what few firing brain cells you start out with.

I still feel he has the inner makings of a very good coach, but we're liable to break him down and teach him what to look for if he ever gets another chance.

When's the last great manager lining up to turn our team around?

Buddy doesn't count.

DG dosen't count although it did spike our talent level.

Who else would come here that you can think of?

Gruden?

Cowher?

You really think they'd take this job, EVER?

So sure run Whiz out of town, it couldn't possibly be worse right?

RIGHT?

Oh, yes my friend, it could be infinitely worse, one heartbeat, 700lbs of ass worse.

We could be dealing with smaller pies.

Yes we are who we thought we were.
 
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RugbyMuffin

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During the offseason & even just a couple of weeks ago, I would have argued some of these points...............but, this is DEAD ON!! Very good & accurate post. Whiz's biggest fault is his loyalty to certain coaches & to players that can NO LONGER play this game. If this doesn't turn around fast, this season is OVER. There's no bigger Whiz fan on this board than me, but my patience is wearing thin. I thought I would never say that. Oh well.

+1.

Awesome post.

But lawyers are good at making pts. :D
 

PACardsFan

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It's a very well thought out post, it all comes back to ultimately the FO, and before that ownership.

Ownership is the unmovable object, it can't or won't hire a competent GM and therefore all else that flows down from that error is what it is.

What good does happen is accidental.

So sad, but so true.
 

kerouac9

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I'm fairly sure that the FO wanted to purge Grimm along with the defensive coaching staff and instead Whis agreed to strip him of his co-coordinator title. Whis is going to have to decide whether he likes coaching with Russ Grimm or coaching the Arizona Cardinals.
 

AzKarl

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I think Whiz might be a good coordinator who is not a good CEO. A Head Coach must be a CEO and Coach up or change his senior manager's (i.e. assistant coaches) when they don't perform. He is working as an offensive coordinator and is doing a half assed job as the Head guy. He should be coaching up Horton on the defensive side of the house and he needs to get out of the offensive play calling business.
 

RonF

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Except for the very few years of success we had with Warner as QB, Ouchies' comments can apply over the history of the Cardinals. Some Head coaches had better success than others, but the end result was the same. We couldn't win the key games, even when we were ahead for most of the game. We still cannot stop our opponent from scoring and our play calling is atrocious...on both offense and defense. What's new? Same old thing.
 

Duckjake

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Except for the very few years of success we had with Warner as QB, Ouchies' comments can apply over the history of the Cardinals. Some Head coaches had better success than others, but the end result was the same. We couldn't win the key games, even when we were ahead for most of the game. We still cannot stop our opponent from scoring and our play calling is atrocious...on both offense and defense. What's new? Same old thing.

Too true.

The Cards have scored 28 more points than through 4 games last season and allowed 31 fewer and have a worse record against an easier schedule. Go figure.
 

Chopper0080

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The only point that I have an issue with is blaming the defensive coordinator for the defensivce errors. They aren't scheme errors, they are player errors. Yes Horton had two months to install his defense and our players still have not gotten it. Apparently we need to draft defenesive accumen as well as talent.
 

Crazy Canuck

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I'm fairly sure that the FO wanted to purge Grimm along with the defensive coaching staff and instead Whis agreed to strip him of his co-coordinator title. Whis is going to have to decide whether he likes coaching with Russ Grimm or coaching the Arizona Cardinals.

Based on what?
 

Crazy Canuck

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I think Whiz might be a good coordinator who is not a good CEO. A Head Coach must be a CEO and Coach up or change his senior manager's (i.e. assistant coaches) when they don't perform. He is working as an offensive coordinator and is doing a half assed job as the Head guy. He should be coaching up Horton on the defensive side of the house and he needs to get out of the offensive play calling business.

He is not...
 

Seandonic

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It's a very well thought out post, it all comes back to ultimately the FO, and before that ownership.

Ownership is the unmovable object, it can't or won't hire a competent GM and therefore all else that flows down from that spawned by original error.

What good does happen is accidental or more correctly put, what good does happen isn't nearly enough to outweigh what good DOSEN'T happen. When you think of any bad employee, not all they do is really bad, a few things they do impede their reaching ultimate success. So you don't have to find something stupid everywhere to be right here, the easiest thing to do is to compare how a successful organization works to how ours works and there the differences will stick out all over the place.

I will say this in Whiz's defense, over time being hamstrung by this FO will corrode what few firing brain cells you start out with.

I still feel he has the inner makings of a very good coach, but we're liable to break him down and teach him what to look for if he ever gets another chance.

When's the last great manager lining up to turn our team around?

Buddy doesn't count.

DG dosen't count although it did spike our talent level.

Who else would come here that you can think of?

Gruden?

Cowher?

You really think they'd take this job, EVER?

So sure run Whiz out of town, it couldn't possibly be worse right?

RIGHT?

Oh, yes my friend, it could be infinitely worse, one heartbeat, 700lbs of ass worse.

We could be dealing with smaller pies.

Yes we are who we thought we were.
These are all good post but this one is the only one so far that truly gets it. It's all on the ownership. In every business it starts at the top and thus there is a trickle down affect.

The Michael Bidwill era is just beginning, so I do have some hope that change will come. Heck, we've already seen some things since he's been mainly in charge that we never would have seen under Bill. However, as many of you correctly point out, there are many changes that aren't getting done.

Therein lies my personal dilemma. If I knew that son was going to be similar to dad I would walk away from this team, no problem. However, that has yet to be seen, and thus I am stuck here for a few more years hoping beyond reason that the Cards and M. Bidwill can somehow figure out how to put together a consistent winner.
 
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40yearfan

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with the talent level on this team. The talent level is on par or better than all of the other NFL teams. This team lacks heart/fire whatever you want to call it. They come out all fired up, play well for 2 or 3 quarters, lose confidence in themselves and wind up losing the game. Blame it on the players or the coaches or both. It is what it is and won't change until someone on this team decides to take the lead and push this team into being a winner. That player/coach is not on this team at the present time. In a league as close to parity as the NFL is, winners are decided on emotion and will.
 

Cheesebeef

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with the talent level on this team. The talent level is on par or better than all of the other NFL teams.

you've said it before... and you were wrong then and you're wrong now 40. No team has as pathetic a combo as our OLB/Entire Secondary and I'd be hard pressed to find a worse set of OTs in the league. Those are probably the most important positions in football outside of QB and we literally have completely horrendous players in their prime (Brown/Keith), completely over the hill and ineffective players past their prime (Porter/Haggans/sadly AW) or completely raw rookies who have never shown the ability to play on this level yet (Jefferson/Peterson). all three of those segments of the team OLB/OT/Secondary are dare I say amongst the worst in the league from a talent standpoint. that doesn't get it done at this level.
 

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