People Have Short Memories

[Russ Smith]

Again that is on the players and coaches. Shows they are a bunch of undisciplined children who must have constant strict supervision or they'll start getting out of hand.

But then I guess that's human nature. If the IRS stopped all audits for the next 10 years I would imagine 1000s of people would start cheating on their taxes. And of course people would say it was the IRS' fault for not doing audits of tax returns.

Yep and millions already cheat on their taxes.

Another example of it is when the traffic lights go out and go flashing red. Just watch how many people run the red light instead of treating it like a stop sign because they see a chance to "get ahead".

A month ago I nearly got nailed making a left turn because they'd closed off the road in front of us and the only way out was to make a left turn. I moved into the turn lane, all the straight traffic was turning left because they had a green light(as did traffic the other way so they were turning against traffic).

My turn arrow went green so I started going and the guy behind me had gotten tired of waiting and pulled into the next lane and then gunned it trying to get in front of me. Human nature when you see a chance to get ahead many people will take it.

 

[john h]

People who complain about the relacement refs, only have to go back ONE YEAR and see that the so-called regular refs cost the Cardinals the playoffs, and in fact put the Super Bowl winning Giants into the playoffs. And, by the way, I've never seen the, "He gave himself up" call made before or since. But I don't watch every game (far from it). My point, there is always a lot to complain about the calls.

How often do you see post anywhere complimenting the refs be they old or new. By the nature of what they do half of the fans are going to complain about them every week when there team loses. Did that call on Monday night really upset me. Not really but only in the sense I wanted Seattle to lose as they are in our division. Otherwise it was another call or no call that gave the GB fans something to go berserk about and the media to go even more berserk about because the "integrity" of the game had been ruined. Most NFL players probably cannot even spell integrity much less know what it means. I guess now that the regular refs are back there will be no more complaining about calls from the refs? All is now right with the world. Psychiatrist the nation over are probably the only ones to not welcome back the real refs. Throw away your Valium people.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think it's more than just the bad calls. There will aways be bad calls. The refs are still human. However with the replacement refs:

It's the utter lack of knowledge of NFL rules that is crazy

It's the game play being constantly interupted by huddles of confused refs, sometimes for upwards of 5 minutes.

It's the utter lack of calls that have allowed players to have a free for all.

It's the lack of control that these refs have over the game.

It's the inconsistancy with how these refs make calls.

These are the reason why I can't wait for the real refs to be back...

 

[MadCardDisease]

A handful of games/calls over the course of a decade or more of games =/= ten blown/bad/phantom calls in every game. The replacement officials aren't going to be removed in favor of robots; the regular officials make mistakes, too.

But people saying that the replacement refs aren't any worse are completely deluding themselves.

1) Player safety is at risk. Darrius Heyward-Bey suffered a serious neck injury that wasn't even flagged. Lots of quarterbacks are suffering helmet-to-helmet hits that aren't called.

2) Replacement officials are getting bullied by coaches and fans. That's just the fact of the matter. These guys are literally and figuratively getting pushed around by players and hometown fans. The NFL had to send out a letter to coaches last week politely asking them to take it easy on these guys. You can tell that the officials are intimidated. Say what you will about the regular refs, but they don't get pushed around.

3) It takes forever to make a call, even an obvious one.

4) Remember last season when a coach was allowed to challenge a play even when he had no timeouts? It happened all the time, right? Oh, it didn't? Well, Jim Harbaugh made two challenges without timeouts in Sunday's tilt against Minnesota. Replacement officials have a difficult time managing the facts of the game.

Oops. Should have read the entire thread before making my post as I would have saved time. I agree 100%.

 

[john h]

Hogwash. The NFL isn't hiring guys off a forklift. These guys obviously had enough experience to be officiating games in their old leagues. There are plenty of high school/junior college/Div III/Lingerie football/Arena Football/UFL officials who have a decade of experience calling games at lower levels.

They are bad officials because they don't understand the rulebook, yes, but they're also bad officials because they haven't shown themselves to be adequate enough at their current jobs to move up the ladder into Div I NCAA football.

Unions have responsibilities to keep their workforce trained and educated. Obviously, some unions are better at this than others (and blue-collar unions have historically been very bad), but the gap between the real officials and the guys we have now is pretty glaring.

Not only is it secondary to protecting the jobs and security of their members but it is leading by about 50 lengths. People nearly always do what is best for themselves and that certainly applies to unions. They are not there to provide "integrity" for the game. That word integrity used in conjunction with the NFL just does not fit. It is like using Conrad Dobler in a sentence with Shirley Temple.

 

[BigRedRage]

Hogwash. The NFL isn't hiring guys off a forklift. These guys obviously had enough experience to be officiating games in their old leagues. There are plenty of high school/junior college/Div III/Lingerie football/Arena Football/UFL officials who have a decade of experience calling games at lower levels.

They are bad officials because they don't understand the rulebook, yes, but they're also bad officials because they haven't shown themselves to be adequate enough at their current jobs to move up the ladder into Div I NCAA football.

Unions have responsibilities to keep their workforce trained and educated. Obviously, some unions are better at this than others (and blue-collar unions have historically been very bad), but the gap between the real officials and the guys we have now is pretty glaring.



Because that's part of the mandate for the union--to protect the employment of their current membership. They also have a mandate to protect the professionalism of their ranks, but it's secondary the one to protect their members.

without a union you could start a "ref school" and build people up to be nfl refs who are actually competant. Im not going to say the refs are great BECAUSE of the union itself, because of what the union has in place? sure but the NFL hadnt had time to put any type of longterm program in place. The post attacking the union and your post praising the union ar eboth false, the union works based on what is happening but it can easily be done without a union.

It would take time is all. These current scab refs have experience in different leagues with different rules. If you take me from my field and put me into something that is technically similar but very different I would need a ramp up period as well.

Common sense.

 

[kerouac9]

without a union you could start a "ref school" and build people up to be nfl refs who are actually competant. Im not going to say the refs are great BECAUSE of the union itself, because of what the union has in place? sure but the NFL hadnt had time to put any type of longterm program in place. The post attacking the union and your post praising the union ar eboth false, the union works based on what is happening but it can easily be done without a union.

It would take time is all. These current scab refs have experience in different leagues with different rules. If you take me from my field and put me into something that is technically similar but very different I would need a ramp up period as well.

Common sense.

Yes, the NFL could do that. But they'd be starting from a smaller talent base (because NCAA refs don't want to move up and be scabs), and it would take YEARS for these scrubs to build up the necessary experience. Do you want to gamble the legitimacy of the NFL over the next two to five years on that? The safety of the players?

 

[CardsFan88]

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

People are using the last 5-10-15 years worth of mistakes to find an equal number of screwups from the past....

3 WEEKS

Then forgetting all the little ones too, the bad spots, calling 2nd down 3rd or 4th, having more conferences than Wall Street during an earnings season, using replay to see what happened because they have no clue what happened on the field, and having a hand holding official on the sideline. ETC ETC ETC to infinity and beyond.

3 weeks vs 15 years. Yeah it's a legit comparison.

 

[Mulli]

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

People are using the last 5-10-15 years worth of mistakes to find an equal number of screwups from the past....

3 WEEKS

Then forgetting all the little ones too, the bad spots, calling 2nd down 3rd or 4th, having more conferences than Wall Street during an earnings season, using replay to see what happened because they have no clue what happened on the field, and having a hand holding official on the sideline. ETC ETC ETC to infinity and beyond.

3 weeks vs 15 years. Yeah it's a legit comparison.

Exactly!

 

[BigRedRage]

Yes, the NFL could do that. But they'd be starting from a smaller talent base (because NCAA refs don't want to move up and be scabs), and it would take YEARS for these scrubs to build up the necessary experience. Do you want to gamble the legitimacy of the NFL over the next two to five years on that? The safety of the players?

Point missed. Nevermind.

 

[jmt]

Isn't the crappiness of the replacement officials a clear indication that unions do a superior job presenting more qualified and higher-performing workers? It's not like these officials have zero experience.

Yeah - and tell that to Scott Walker.

 

[john h]

People who complain about the relacement refs, only have to go back ONE YEAR and see that the so-called regular refs cost the Cardinals the playoffs, and in fact put the Super Bowl winning Giants into the playoffs. And, by the way, I've never seen the, "He gave himself up" call made before or since. But I don't watch every game (far from it). My point, there is always a lot to complain about the calls.

The union did not train these guys or make them superior. They earned it on their own through experience. The NFL is always on the look for a good ref and they find them by recommendation and searching. Experience is the key to being a good ref and the old guys have mostly been at this for a long time. They are also graded on each game. The new guys would eventually likely turn into decent refs. These guys were not picked up off the streets. They have a lot of experience but not at the NFL level or the NFL speed. Obviously they are dealing with new rules which only experience can improve their abilities. It is likely that after a couple of years you would not notice much difference. I see many post calling them names or idiots. That is very much a real reach. Up until the Monday game most people only mildly complained. Now suddenly these are the worst refs in the entire world who are not only bad refs but also idiots. All of us started our jobs in a learning capacity. As a 21 year old pilot you can bet I was not as safe or as good a pilot as I was when I was a 31 year old pilot with 7,000 flying hours. If I was making a WAG I would say over a year these replacements might change the outcome of perhaps 3-4 games. I do not think they would change the champs of the Superbowl. They would be used as excuses for coaches and players for bad play and game planning. They do not throw the ball, tackle, block, call plays on defense or offense, fumble, run the ball. As always it will be largely on the players and coaches who wins and loses no matter if it is the old refs or new refs. To take it out personally on these replacement refs is really uncalled for. Even the Commissioner is not the ultimate decider of what is done. It is the owners for whom the Commissioner works. Can you see Mr B Sr. voting to settle for a contract he does not agree with. That is totally against his nature and past performance. It is his way or the highway. Well, it all appears over now so I will try to make no more post on this subject until I start seeing post saying the new refs should be brought back as the old refs have forgot how to do their job. Losers will always complain and winners will rejoice.

 

[Garthshort]

K9, player safety?? Are you talking about Daryl Stingley? And if you're not, you should be.

 

[NJCardFan]

People who complain about the relacement refs, only have to go back ONE YEAR and see that the so-called regular refs cost the Cardinals the playoffs, and in fact put the Super Bowl winning Giants into the playoffs. And, by the way, I've never seen the, "He gave himself up" call made before or since. But I don't watch every game (far from it). My point, there is always a lot to complain about the calls.

Give the Cards that win and we still don't make the playoffs. That would have made us 9-7. Atlanta and Detroit were 10-6.

 

[NJCardFan]

or the Detroit-Steelers Turkey day game where they couldn't even get the coin flip in OT right.

Luckett got it right. It's been confirmed 100 times over and still they say Luckett got it wrong. Truth be told, Bettis called Hea-tails while the coin was in the air. Per the rules at the time, the referee had to go with the first call out of the players mouth which was the start of heads. Bettis later said to Cower that he called hea-tails. I really, really wish people would read up on this one before including it in their worst call ever.

 

[NJCardFan]

Personally, I hope the NFL doesn't concede an inch with the union. I've experienced first hand how unions create employees whose productivity over time ends up in the crapper. Let these new refs compete & learn the ropes and they'll be better than what we've seen over the years. I have to laugh listening to the morons on ESPN talk about the integrity of the game. OMG, how many times had the previous slew of officials screwed teams like the Cardinals over in the past!

Just look at MLB umpires. These guys are horrible and yet the playoffs, LCS's, and World Series are done on a rotation basis, not merit.