perhaps now...

[Young Gun]

.... the Cardinals 'will turn the corner & become winners'. Well, let's not get carried away. But with a new stadium I do believe that it is a key ingredient in the Cardinals being competitive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a stadium is like a marketing tool. People will come out, open up more of a fan base, that equals more cash flow for the organization.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Young Gun
.... the Cardinals 'will turn the corner & become winners'. Well, let's not get carried away. But with a new stadium I do believe that it is a key ingredient in the Cardinals being competitive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a stadium is like a marketing tool. People will come out, open up more of a fan base, that equals more cash flow for the organization.

I don't know... That's kind of what they planned to happen with the BOB and the D-Backs. Turns out, after a year of stinkerdom as an expansion franchise, the "fans" decided that they didn't want to go to their pretty new ballpark to watch a bunch of losers. Then, Colangelo had to open up his pocketbook and make the D-Backs the second-highest payrolled team in the league. Then, the people came back, but every time there was a three-game losing streak, 3/4 of the ballpark was empty. They won the World Series, but still, every time Johnson/Schilling aren't on the mound, or the purple and teal aren't nursing a five-game winning streak and are fifteen games up in the NL West, no one wants to visit the BOB.

AZ fans are a finicky, bandwagoning bunch. They'll only love a team while they're winning, and can't care less about them if they're underperforming or retooling (The Suns are a great example of this maxim). Unless the Cards go into their second season with a legitimate chance of going 10-6, no one's going to be at the fancy new ballfield in BFE the second year.

This isn't being negative, it's just a fact of the market. The Cards never had a problem selling seats at SDS when they were winning/competitive (except in the upper deck). If the Cards continue to have their mysterious and misguided ticket-pricing policies in the new place as they have at SDS (you could sell upper-deck, east side tix for $20 a game, and still never sell out, but they're like $45; how does that make any sense at all????), they're going to have a hard time convincing fans in Mesa or Gilbert or Chandler or even north Scottsdale to take a massive drive like that on Sundays.

I know that my company already is giving up their Coyote tickets because it's too far to ask customers to head out to games in Glendale. I hope that some Cards fans are moving out there, because I'm not sure if anyone in the East will be willing to make that trek, especially not to see the redbirds get thumped by 30 points...

 

[az643dp]

There will most likely be a spike in attendance initially, but the bottom line is winning. Everyone who was here in 1998 will remember how this area went bonkers over the Cards. There are the hard core fans, like all of us that post here, and there are those casual fans (Fair Weather) who want to root for the Cards, but need a reason to.

 

[az643dp]

Re: Re: perhaps now...

Originally posted by kerouac9
they're going to have a hard time convincing fans in Mesa or Gilbert or Chandler or even north Scottsdale to take a massive drive like that on Sundays.

I know that my company already is giving up their Coyote tickets because it's too far to ask customers to head out to games in Glendale. I hope that some Cards fans are moving out there, because I'm not sure if anyone in the East will be willing to make that trek, especially not to see the redbirds get thumped by 30 points...

I disagree with you on this point. The Cardinals play eight regular season games a year. I would find it hard to believe that an extra 20-30 minute drive would deter many people from going. Maybe a few, but not enough to make a major difference.

I agree with you on the Coyotes situation. Many East Valley people may not be able to fight weekeday traffic to go see a game. However, with the way that the West side is growing, they may be able to attract a new branch of fans out there.

 

[WestValleyFan]

Problem is that most of the West Valley fans, while being much more knowledgeable, and passionate, about sports than east valley fans, are blue collar and , for the most part, can not afford the escalating costs of professional sports.

Traveling to the stadium, or the arena, while a little longer should not deter fans , if they really are fans, from going to games....it happens in every other city in professional sports, where fans have to travel a lot further than what they will have to travel here, and somehow, they find their way to the games without complaining about the distances. In many cases, fans travel hundreds of miles, even from out of state....

Here, fans cry if they have to travel more than 10 miles.

 

[Stronso]

I completely agree. Phoenix has more world class whiners when it comes to going to an event. "It's toooo farrrr" (sniff)

Listen, people here in NYC, who travel in MUCH WORSE TRAFFIC, than Phoenicians will ever experience - make the trips to go to a game. From CT, NJ, PA, NY, LI, etc. People in Phoenix are spoiled and they do not understand how things really are for other cities.

BTW, in regards to traffic, I was drving around Phoenix 2 weeks ago and I was thinking to myself "traffic? they call this traffic? where the f*%$ are all the cars?" Traffic is a joke in Phoenix.

I will be drving from Tempe to Glendale for the Cards and Yotes.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Stronso
I completely agree. Phoenix has more world class whiners when it comes to going to an event. "It's toooo farrrr" (sniff)

Listen, people here in NYC, who travel in MUCH WORSE TRAFFIC, than Phoenicians will ever experience - make the trips to go to a game. From CT, NJ, PA, NY, LI, etc. People in Phoenix are spoiled and they do not understand how things really are for other cities.

BTW, in regards to traffic, I was drving around Phoenix 2 weeks ago and I was thinking to myself "traffic? they call this traffic? where the f*%$ are all the cars?" Traffic is a joke in Phoenix.

I will be drving from Tempe to Glendale for the Cards and Yotes.

I cannot believe how wrong this post is. Whiners? Give me a break. Spoiled? Cmon Stronso. People aren't making the trip now when they are at SDS which most would agree is pretty centrally located (much moreso than Glendale). The reasons are two-fold...and neither have to do with distance. First, this is a city made up almost entirely of transplants...therefore they bring with them their old loyalties. As a result, while they are interested in what the Cards are doing they aren't going to the games...which brings us to reason #2.

The Cards don't win. If the Cards aren't your favorite team because you are a diehard Cowboys, Packers etc fan, why on earth would you spend the money to go and see a 3-13 team all the time? Makes NO sense. If the Cards win, people will show up...whether any of you like it or not...and judging by some of the narrowmindedness regarding bandwagon....

Add to that the rising cost of going to games in an economic market COMPLETELY unlike NYC/surrounding area and you are going to have problems.

If the Cards would make going to games important around here, people will go but we saw it here on this very board of "diehards"...people questioning whether they were going to renew their season tix. Is it because they are whiners or spoiled? No. They are sick of losing and sick of essentially throwing good money after bad...because when you don't win, while you may have had some enjoyment, how fun is it to root for a perennial loser?

 

[WestValleyFan]

Originally posted by Stronso
I completely agree. Phoenix has more world class whiners when it comes to going to an event. "It's toooo farrrr" (sniff)

Listen, people here in NYC, who travel in MUCH WORSE TRAFFIC, than Phoenicians will ever experience - make the trips to go to a game. From CT, NJ, PA, NY, LI, etc. People in Phoenix are spoiled and they do not understand how things really are for other cities.

BTW, in regards to traffic, I was drving around Phoenix 2 weeks ago and I was thinking to myself "traffic? they call this traffic? where the f*%$ are all the cars?" Traffic is a joke in Phoenix.

I will be drving from Tempe to Glendale for the Cards and Yotes.

Oh yeah, one other thing....in this city, and many of the other western cities, fans like to show up about ten minutes AFTER the games start, and leave twenty minutes before they end.... Unbelievable.

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I cannot believe how wrong this post is. Whiners? Give me a break. Spoiled? Cmon Stronso. People aren't making the trip now when they are at SDS which most would agree is pretty centrally located (much moreso than Glendale). The reasons are two-fold...and neither have to do with distance. First, this is a city made up almost entirely of transplants...therefore they bring with them their old loyalties. As a result, while they are interested in what the Cards are doing they aren't going to the games...which brings us to reason #2.

The Cards don't win. If the Cards aren't your favorite team because you are a diehard Cowboys, Packers etc fan, why on earth would you spend the money to go and see a 3-13 team all the time? Makes NO sense. If the Cards win, people will show up...whether any of you like it or not...and judging by some of the narrowmindedness regarding bandwagon....

Add to that the rising cost of going to games in an economic market COMPLETELY unlike NYC/surrounding area and you are going to have problems.

If the Cards would make going to games important around here, people will go but we saw it here on this very board of "diehards"...people questioning whether they were going to renew their season tix. Is it because they are whiners or spoiled? No. They are sick of losing and sick of essentially throwing good money after bad...because when you don't win, while you may have had some enjoyment, how fun is it to root for a perennial loser?

CB - I grew up in Phoenix and I know all of the reasons why the Cards do not sell out. I was not referring to the miserable record or any of that. My post was in reference to the excuse that Glendale is so far away and people won't want to drive 30 minutes (or whatever) to go to a game. That is what I was referring to. And I do stand by my comment that Phoenix has more than its fair share of whiners and I will add in bandwaggoners. As far as the other items in your response....I have said in other posts on this board that if the Cards turn it around and become winners they will own this town - no ifs ands or buts. Part of the problem I really believe is SDS - it sucks to go there for a game especially in summer and early fall afternoons. I think the new place will be better for all concerned.

Let's compare markets: Is Charlotte more of a money town than Phoenix? Do they have less transplants? What about Jacksonville? Nashville? Miami? Tampa Bay? All of those cities are smaller than Phoenix and they are less of a money town - with the exception of Miami. The Bidwills have shot themselves in the feet on numerous occasions and the nationla media has not helped. Winning cures all and if the Cards win then this discussion is moot.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I think AZ634 brings up an interesting point.

The Cards only play 8 home games a year.
To compare that with attendance trends with other sports is comparing apples and oranges.

When there are only 8 possible games as opposed to say 80...I think that does make a difference.

 

[JeffGollin]

To compare that with attendance trends with other sports is comparing apples and oranges.
Therefore, if we can't play the Orange Bowl in the new stadium. will we at least get the Apple Bowl?

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
To compare that with attendance trends with other sports is comparing apples and oranges.
Therefore, if we can't play the Orange Bowl in the new stadium. will we at least get the Apple Bowl?

No, they already play that in Cupertino, CA

 

[Skkorpion]

Without generations of history to build a fan base here, only winning will bring in new fans.

Winning solves everything.

And frankly, fans are fickle and are the same everywhere. Chicago, Oakland, Buffalo, Minnesota, are all examples of successful franchises who in recent years have had home games with 10,000, 13,000 or more empty seats.

Stronso, I'm not the least bit impressed that the Giants can sell out 80,000 seats with a 25 million population base to draw from. Two years ago, the Jets played to small crowds in the same stadium because the team was losing.

 

[Stronso]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Without generations of history to build a fan base here, only winning will bring in new fans.

Winning solves everything.

And frankly, fans are fickle and are the same everywhere. Chicago, Oakland, Buffalo, Minnesota, are all examples of successful franchises who in recent years have had home games with 10,000, 13,000 or more empty seats.

Stronso, I'm not the least bit impressed that the Giants can sell out 80,000 seats with a 25 million population base to draw from. Two years ago, the Jets played to small crowds in the same stadium because the team was losing.

Big difference, the games were still sold out - people just did not attend the games. The Jets have a 15 yr wait list for season tickets and the Giants, I believe, have a 20 yr wait list.

I do grant you that the Metro NY area dwarfs everywhere else but that still doesn't account for Charlotte, Jacksonville, Nashville selling out. Those cities are dwarfed by Phoenix

 

[ChandlerCard]

I don't know how much winning will solve. It should bring the fan base up, but the reality is that if the Cards make the playoffs more than twice in a row fans will expect that and bolt when they don't maintain that level (look at the Suns and Dbacks).

On the other hand, I know plenty of people who would attend more games if they didn't think SDS was such a horrible place to go. If you watch attendance you'll see the average figures up in Nov/Dec in SDS, regardless of how the team is doing.

BTW, I'm from south Chandler and can't wait to drive out to Glendale for the games!!!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Stronso
Big difference, the games were still sold out - people just did not attend the games. The Jets have a 15 yr wait list for season tickets and the Giants, I believe, have a 20 yr wait list.

I do grant you that the Metro NY area dwarfs everywhere else but that still doesn't account for Charlotte, Jacksonville, Nashville selling out. Those cities are dwarfed by Phoenix

And Charlotte has how many sports teams vying for sports dollars? Hmm, how about Jacksonville? Nashville? None of those cities can approach the sports saturation there is in Phoenix.

Of course people are complaining about going to Glendale. I am too because it is now more inconvenient for me. So sorry to piss on the parade. Does it mean I won't go? No. People are complaining simply because they now have to drive further for a team that regularly lets them down. Of course people will be upset about that. Once the team starts winning it won't matter anymore.

 

[Azfan1]

"No. They are sick of losing and sick of essentially throwing good money after bad...because when you don't win, while you may have had some enjoyment, how fun is it to root for a perennial loser?"

Great point!!

It has nothing to do with the distance, I made 6 hour round trip drives to all home games at SDS for 10 years.

It has everything to do with this team being a perennial loser.

There must be something fundamentally wrong with the way this organization functions. How else can you explain over 50 years of mostly losing tradition?

Winning teams pick later in the draft, losing teams earlier in the draft. A low pick should get you the best players, correct? How can you explain why the same teams continue to draft low and continue to loose while the same teams continue to draft high and continue to win?

If the Cards can ever make the transition from losers to winners they will be the hot ticket in the Valley. Nothing would please me more.