Peter King FMIA: reason for optimism?

[Brak]

Interesting long take on Kyler & the Cards this morning from Peter King...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ls-antonio-brown-raiders-fmia-nfl-peter-king/

 

[bojack]

I'm still not buying they are running a different offense than what they are practicing just to get a couple games where there is no viable tape on them. It doesn't make sense. If you need the element of surprise to win then the offense isn't good, and that benefit is short lived when you're planning on playing 16 games this year and for many seasons to come after.

Yes, they aren't going to be using their plays saved for critical moments in games, but that is not what this is. If you're not taking the opportunity to let your rooks and vets alike to practice the new scheme in a preseason what's to say it isn't going to be a cluster F on the first regular season game.

Im starting to get the feeling even if we are 0-4 that they haven't opened the whole playbook yet because it is just too much awesomeness to reveal all at once... Just wait and see when we pull out all the stops next year!

 

[Zeno]

Good column, we really won't know until the regular season if Murray & Kingsbury's confidence is misplaced or not.

 

[BigRedRage]

I'm still not buying they are running a different offense than what they are practicing just to get a couple games where there is no viable tape on them. It doesn't make sense. If you need the element of surprise to win then the offense isn't good, and that benefit is short lived when you're planning on playing 16 games this year and for many seasons to come after.

Yes, they aren't going to be using their plays saved for critical moments in games, but that is not what this is. If you're not taking the opportunity to let your rooks and vets alike to practice the new scheme in a preseason what's to say it isn't going to be a cluster F on the first regular season game.

Im starting to get the feeling even if we are 0-4 that they haven't opened the whole playbook yet because it is just too much awesomeness to reveal all at once... Just wait and see when we pull out all the stops next year!

I do not think we should "open the playbook" but we should practice playing how we will in games. Its not like we will operate half vanilla in game one. And the way Murray talks about the offense, just watch his college tape and you know what offense we are running. it isnt a big secret.

 

[JeffGollin]

Good column, we really won't know until the regular season if Murray & Kingsbury's confidence is misplaced or not.

Linky is slow. What was the gist of King's piece?

 

[Zeno]

Linky is slow. What was the gist of King's piece?

Basically the team is showing nothing offensively. What we see in the preseason is no indicator of the offense that will roll out week 1 (noted the abundance of multiple TE sets as an example).

 

[kerouac9]

This is an extremely encouraging article, although Peter King is also almost always wrong. I remember his old podcast where he waxed poetic about the promise of Christian Ponder somehow.

It's very clear that we're not showing tempo, we're not showing off RPOs and Murray's running ability and we're not showing off the deep passing concepts in the preseason. I actually think that when these things come out, we're more likely to look more explosive on offense early in the year and then regress toward the mean somewhat.

 

[Chopper0080]

I liked this article. For those who really advocated for Murray in the draft, a patient approach is probably the best approach. I say that because accurate, hard working, and smart normally work in the NFL long-term. He is accurate. He is smart. Whether he can stay healthy and work on his craft enough to overcome his lack of experience, size, and this roster is the question.

 

[PACardsFan]

I'm very confident that our O will produce. It's our D that scares the hell out of me!!

 

[BigRedRage]

I'm very confident that our O will produce. It's our D that scares the hell out of me!!

yep.

 

[splitsecond]

I'm still not buying they are running a different offense than what they are practicing just to get a couple games where there is no viable tape on them. It doesn't make sense. If you need the element of surprise to win then the offense isn't good, and that benefit is short lived when you're planning on playing 16 games this year and for many seasons to come after.

Yes, they aren't going to be using their plays saved for critical moments in games, but that is not what this is. If you're not taking the opportunity to let your rooks and vets alike to practice the new scheme in a preseason what's to say it isn't going to be a cluster F on the first regular season game.

Im starting to get the feeling even if we are 0-4 that they haven't opened the whole playbook yet because it is just too much awesomeness to reveal all at once... Just wait and see when we pull out all the stops next year!

See normally I would agree with you 100% here. But I have done a lot of thinking the last couple days and digging through commentary and I believe we really are not showing a damn thing. I have watched countless air raid games and some of my absolutely favorite offenses have been run by guys like Mike Leach (who I absolutely love), Sonny Dykes and Dana Holgerson. We have not seen an air raid offense the last 2 games. We have basically seen guys line up like they are going to run some version of the air raid, then not attack.

There is also something going an I have never seen before with the media: multiple press members who have actually been at practice have come out and said that Kingsbury isn't running what they saw in practice.

Lastly, the more I look at the tape from Thursday the more obvious it is that Gruden and Guenther game planned because they are absolute douchebags. Remember, Guenther is the guy who allowed and encouraged his defensive players to play dirty in Cincinatti and goes around saying that Vontaze Burfict is the smartest player he has ever coached. Anyone from Arizona knows Burfict is a psychopath and an idiot as we watched it unfold every year he was at ASU. There are guys like Gruden and Guenther who do not want Kingsbury to succeed and refs like Carl Jeffers who think they should determine the evolution of the QB position by making ******** calls that now both Mike Peirera and Dean Blandino have said were wrong.

Don't get me wrong, this team has MASSIVE holes and we should expect those to continue to be problems, but there is a lot more to the massive disaster the first half was on Thursday than meets the eye initially.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm still not buying they are running a different offense than what they are practicing just to get a couple games where there is no viable tape on them. It doesn't make sense. If you need the element of surprise to win then the offense isn't good, and that benefit is short lived when you're planning on playing 16 games this year and for many seasons to come after.

Yes, they aren't going to be using their plays saved for critical moments in games, but that is not what this is. If you're not taking the opportunity to let your rooks and vets alike to practice the new scheme in a preseason what's to say it isn't going to be a cluster F on the first regular season game.

Im starting to get the feeling even if we are 0-4 that they haven't opened the whole playbook yet because it is just too much awesomeness to reveal all at once... Just wait and see when we pull out all the stops next year!

So you think the Cardinals version of the Air Raid uses a bunch of 2 TE sets? Doesn't attack down the field? Doesn't play up tempo? Doesn't use the RPO?

I think you are going to be in for a surprise come week one. They are showing nothing in the preseason.

 

[bojack]

Oh I hope I'm surprised just not counting on it.

So what's the plan then in preseason? Not use our "real" protections so KM can get harassed and not have a chance for downfield plays to develop so we don't expose it for the Lions? Have trouble lining up on purpose to trick the Lions into thinking we aren't capable of using tempo? What about the other 15 opponents?

If someone can explain the reason why you wouldn't show your "real" offense (not saying entire playbook) in preseason but you would in Game 1 maybe I can wrap my head around it. It's not like KK doesn't have college tape on him. It's not like one game without tape is going to make or break the season.

 

[BigRedRage]

Oh I hope I'm surprised just not counting on it.

So what's the plan then in preseason? Not use our "real" protections so KM can get harassed and not have a chance for downfield plays to develop so we don't expose it for the Lions? Have trouble lining up on purpose to trick the Lions into thinking we aren't capable of using it? What about the other 15 opponents?

If someone can explain the reason why you wouldn't show your "real" (not saying entire playbook) in preseason but you would in Game 1 maybe I can wrap my head around it. It's not like KK doesn't have college tape on him. It's not like one game without tape is going to make or break the season.

All it really does is give a leg up on what we do vs the lions. after that, it is visible anyway. Id rather have practice in our offense than a leg up on a single game.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Oh I hope I'm surprised just not counting on it.

So what's the plan then in preseason? Not use our "real" protections so KM can get harassed and not have a chance for downfield plays to develop so we don't expose it for the Lions? Have trouble lining up on purpose to trick the Lions into thinking we aren't capable of using it? What about the other 15 opponents?

Peter King interviewing KK:

“The games, we’re trying to keep it close to the vest, obviously,” Kingsbury told me, sitting on a golf cart before practice. “We’re trying to get our players used to playing with each other. But … it’s interesting for me, because this is the NFL, and I’ve never called a game in my life where I wasn’t in straight attack mode. Kyler and I are adjusting to that.”

“So what can you do that’s just not going through the motions?” I asked.

“That’s a great question,” said Kingsbury, choosing his words carefully now. “For us, it’s operations. Getting guys lined up. Proper footwork. Things like that."

 

[bojack]

And for the record I totally get in the preseason you aren't investing much into scouting your opponent and trying to form a game plan to pick apart their weaknesses. Its not about winning and more about evaluating your players for cuts but just as important to practice your fundamental schemes. It seems hard to do either without playing how you practice. If the preseason does nothing for them and they see everything in practice why are the key starters even out there?

I would much rather hear that we are running our standard offense with a somewhat limited playbook and protections and while they might not be working in preseason it really doesn't matter because the preseason doesn't predict regular season success.

If we truly are fielding something in preseason 180 to what we are doing in Game 1 then color me confused on why.

 

[PJ1]

I don't care what type of offense is being run you still have to win one on one battles. We aren't winning them.

Same on D where we are losing them all over the field.

 

[bojack]

So basically we are still trying to sort out football fundamentals before we can worry about executing the playbook? That's how I read that.

The KK interview does not inspire confidence as much as it sounds like someone telling you not worry, the check is in the mail.

It still didn't explain why it is so secretive and what is to gain by it.

I'm not saying Game 1 cannot be an offense on fire. My gripe is it seems like smoke is being blown up arses.

 

[oaken1]

So basically we are still trying to sort out football fundamentals before we can worry about executing the playbook? That's how I read that.

The KK interview does not inspire confidence as much as it sounds like someone telling you not worry, the check is in the mail.

It still didn't explain why it is so secretive and what is to gain by it.

I'm not saying Game 1 cannot be an offense on fire. My gripe is it seems like smoke is being blown up arses.

Sure sounds like a snow job doesn't it

 

[MadCardDisease]

So basically we are still trying to sort out football fundamentals before we can worry about executing the playbook? That's how I read that.

Come on now. Did you miss the first sentence?

"we’re trying to keep it close to the vest, obviously"

The term "Keeping it closet to the vest" is an idiom that originated from poker and refers to holding one's cards close to one's chest so as not to allow another player to see one's hand.

So when KK says he is "keeping it close to the vest" he means he is keeping his offense and tactics secret.

It still didn't explain why it is so secretive and what is to gain by it.

I'm not saying Game 1 cannot be an offense on fire. My gripe is it seems like smoke is being blown up arses.

There is literally no video of what KK's NFL version of the Air Raid will look like. So preparing for it is going to be difficult for the Lions. Even then KK is most likely only going to use a small subset of his play book against the Lions. The Ravens and Panthers will each see new wrinkles added that haven't been shown before. etc.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I think its legit. Preseason means nothing. The Rams dont even play 85% of their starters at all!! Most teams play starters 10% of the game. We have seen many times 4-0 preseason teams suck and 0-4 preseason teams win the Division. Also has anyone really paid attention to all the experts about David Johnson. He is ranked in top 5-7 fantasy players in all of football. All of them think that.
Also Murray made a great point. Texas Tech didnt have the athletes Oklahoma or Texas did....and they were still scoring 43 points. I'm not judging this team..Murray or KK until week 4. But Peter King has seen practice and he said it isnt anything like what was run in the Oakland game. So you guys who dont buy it....they saw it.

 

[splitsecond]

All it really does is give a leg up on what we do vs the lions. after that, it is visible anyway. Id rather have practice in our offense than a leg up on a single game.

On one hand, I agree especially since this team isn't likely going to make the playoffs anyways. On the other hand, its the NFL and every damn game counts. That's part of why we all love the damn game so much.

 

[BigRedRage]

We'll see. I will take DJ if he is still available at #9 in the draft but I would be scared to take him earlier.

 

[BigRedRage]

On one hand, I agree especially since this team isn't likely going to make the playoffs anyways. On the other hand, its the NFL and every damn game counts. That's part of why we all love the damn game so much.

I agree

But after one game, everyone has seen the offense so I would think practicing the offense vs other teams would be more beneficial than said surprise of an offense that isnt brand new.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I agree

But after one game, everyone has seen the offense so I would think practicing the offense vs other teams would be more beneficial than said surprise of an offense that isnt brand new.

You mean everyone will have seen only PART of the offense. Most coaches only show a small portion of their play book in the first game and add to it with each additional game.

For example with the Lions KK will most likely select plays that he thinks will work best against them. He will then get with K1 and pare it down even more. Then for the Ravens the game plan will look completely different. It will take 5 or 6 games before teams start to get a decent book on the Cardinals new offense.