PFT on Kliff

[gimpy]

No forgiveness in you?

 

[Cheesebeef]

who hurt you?

lol... Keim has hurt me for serving a steaming pile of dog-crap on all of our Sunday plates for five consecutive seasons out of the playoffs. Some of you might enjoy swallowing crap. Sue me for wanting something else.

and him being a two time DUI offender just makes him a piece of trash as a human off the field in addition to the lackluster job he's done on the field.

 

[QuebecCard]

We went 8-8 with an epic collapse down the stretch. We haven't made the playoffs in half a decade. It's pretty unanimously thought we'll be fighting for 3rd in the division with 4th as a reality. Our coach has had two winning seasons at any level of the sport in what has been close to a decade. Our GM has the least success in the draft of any over the past 5 years, and that's not hyperbole, there's metrics to show it.

To claim everything is okay because this franchise's ineptitude has beaten you into the ground so much that an outside shot at the last wild card spot is acceptable, is unbelievable. Or remarkable. Whatever.

This "thought" plus a few bucks will buy a cup of coffee.

We'll know come December.

And, yes, making the playoffs is acceptable because short of that you can't win the prize.

 

[tnmike]

We went 8-8 with an epic collapse down the stretch. We haven't made the playoffs in half a decade. It's pretty unanimously thought we'll be fighting for 3rd in the division with 4th as a reality. Our coach has had two winning seasons at any level of the sport in what has been close to a decade. Our GM has the least success in the draft of any over the past 5 years, and that's not hyperbole, there's metrics to show it.

To claim everything is okay because this franchise's ineptitude has beaten you into the ground so much that an outside shot at the last wild card spot is acceptable, is unbelievable. Or remarkable. Whatever.

Then why don't you take your bat, ball, and glove and run home to your mama ? MY God the season hasn't started yet.

 

[Solar7]

This "thought" plus a few bucks will buy a cup of coffee.

We'll know come December.

And, yes, making the playoffs is acceptable because short of that you can't win the prize.

Making the playoffs isn't acceptable when you know you basically have no shot when you get there. I'm so sick of being the sports team equivalent of "so you're telling me there's a chance." Sure, any given Sunday stuff happens. But, we're all here to express our opinions because we at least mostly care about the team. I just cannot enter the season with confidence like I did in so many of the Arians years. I'm sure as hell happy the Suns are winning right now, and the long term look of the franchise is alluring right now. But I spent most of the last decade having to relegate them to an afterthought even though they're my second favorite team in all of sports.

Then why don't you take your bat, ball, and glove and run home to your mama ? MY God the season hasn't started yet.

All of the credit in the world to you and QuebecCard for your optimism. I want the team to win more than anyone. I think our path just flatly sucks. I grew up saying "this is our year" every year, and frankly, I've had to mature over that. My expectations have to be tempered so I don't end up miserable by the end of September.

The funny thing is, I think we're a decent team. Poorly coached and in a laughably bad position in terms of future talent, but good enough to compete in a multitude of divisions around the league. Unfortunately, the NFC West is so good that we're screwed, and Kliff stinks.

(I feel weird being negative right now since the Suns have me feeling so good about the world. Like, this actually feels like acting.)

 

[QuebecCard]

Making the playoffs isn't acceptable when you know you basically have no shot when you get there. I'm so sick of being the sports team equivalent of "so you're telling me there's a chance." Sure, any given Sunday stuff happens. But, we're all here to express our opinions because we at least mostly care about the team. I just cannot enter the season with confidence like I did in so many of the Arians years. I'm sure as hell happy the Suns are winning right now, and the long term look of the franchise is alluring right now. But I spent most of the last decade having to relegate them to an afterthought even though they're my second favorite team in all of sports.



All of the credit in the world to you and QuebecCard for your optimism. I want the team to win more than anyone. I think our path just flatly sucks. I grew up saying "this is our year" every year, and frankly, I've had to mature over that. My expectations have to be tempered so I don't end up miserable by the end of September.

The funny thing is, I think we're a decent team. Poorly coached and in a laughably bad position in terms of future talent, but good enough to compete in a multitude of divisions around the league. Unfortunately, the NFC West is so good that we're screwed, and Kliff stinks.

(I feel weird being negative right now since the Suns have me feeling so good about the world. Like, this actually feels like acting.)

Why would you feel weird being negative, it's your default position?

I didn't know that Tampa would win the Super Bowl did you?

 

[DVontel]

How does every Kliff thread turn into Solar arguing against multiple people

 

[Billy Bob]

The negativity on this board before training camp has even started is remarkable.

I never will understand all the negativity and the dark side bs, being positive makes life much more fun!

 

[Solar7]

Why would you feel weird being negative, it's your default position?

I didn't know that Tampa would win the Super Bowl did you?

It's really not my default position. You haven't posted here since before Kliff was coach. I actually did have Tampa as my Super Bowl team. It wasn't exactly a risky position to take.

How does every Kliff thread turn into Solar arguing against multiple people

To be fair, it's a thread specifically based in a negative perception of Kliff.

 

[Stout]

He's not revolutionary, but he's still a capable NFL playcaller. We finished the year 6th in yards per game. That is the top of our division, after being dead last in the league with Wilks. That type of improvement doesnt just happen by accident and I don't think that sort of accomplishment should just be handwaved away or taken for granted. However despite being 6th in yards per game, we were only 14th in points per game, which speaks to penalties and missed field goals. Stuff that can be cleaned up.

I'm also a little skeptical of the horrible playcalls being all on Kliff. Its so hard to know what went wrong without studying film. A good playcall can look like the worst thing in the world if even one of your players messes up. That and its on the QB to audible into different calls to adjust for the defense. We know Kyler has some occasional boneheaded mistakes in that department at times, such as checking into a bubble screen on 3rd and long.

My point is that while Kliff will always take full responsibility in press conferences, I don't think its all on him.

Reading this, it sounds like you think NOTHING'S on him and he's doing just fine. Respectfully disagree. Like, completely. I could point out the multitude of ways he turtles at the end of games, runs stupid WR screens and predictable running plays, fails to use motion or misdirection, etc, but that's been gone over ad naseum. At this point, we've all seen what we've needed to see and been able to form an opinion on Kliff. Unless things change drastically one way or another, I doubt opinions are changing.

 

[Stout]

I never will understand all the negativity and the dark side bs, being positive makes life much more fun!

If I were a hopeless optimist for my entire time as a Cards fan, I'd have burned out looooooooooooong since--and I've only been a fan since the move to the desert. There's positivity and then there's reality. Pessimism with this team is normal; optimism is usually putting blinders on and plugging your ears while singing "lalalalalala" against the soul-crushing reality that the cards usually suck ass.

How many winning seasons have we had since the move to the desert?

 

[cardpa]

When you have been a fan of this team since 1967 it's very hard to have if not impossible to have unbounded enthusiasm for any upcoming season. Too many years of abject failure after having those sky high hopes of a successful season have resulted in much tempering of any high level hopes of success. Experience and your brain have taken over to protect yourself from dropping into the depths of despair when the team goes South. Let's call it a mellowing on ones self.

As for Kliff, when you look at his track record, it reads of nothing more than mediocrity. I've posted on this before, multiple years of a fast start in the first half of a season to be followed by a dismal second half with a resulting record of 500 or below. There were a couple of seasons with a slow start and a fast finish with the same resulting record. It's like you get two seasons with Kliff, one half of winning and on half of losing. The guy has never been able to put together a season of winning with a loss or two sprinkled in. Why anyone firmly believes he will get better in the NFL when he never got better in college is something I just can't wrap my head around.

He may be a hell of a great OC, but as a HC I just don't see him as a long term solution.

 

[QuebecCard]

When you have been a fan of this team since 1967 it's very hard to have if not impossible to have unbounded enthusiasm for any upcoming season. Too many years of abject failure after having those sky high hopes of a successful season have resulted in much tempering of any high level hopes of success. Experience and your brain have taken over to protect yourself from dropping into the depths of despair when the team goes South. Let's call it a mellowing on ones self.

As for Kliff, when you look at his track record, it reads of nothing more than mediocrity. I've posted on this before, multiple years of a fast start in the first half of a season to be followed by a dismal second half with a resulting record of 500 or below. There were a couple of seasons with a slow start and a fast finish with the same resulting record. It's like you get two seasons with Kliff, one half of winning and on half of losing. The guy has never been able to put together a season of winning with a loss or two sprinkled in. Why anyone firmly believes he will get better in the NFL when he never got better in college is something I just can't wrap my head around.

He may be a hell of a great OC, but as a HC I just don't see him as a long term solution.

Not that hard to understand. It relates to the fierce competition to attract/recruit players in Texas, and as a result, his teams suffered particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[AZCrazy]

Kliff took over a 3 win horrid team, and went 5-10 his first year and we were actually competitive in many of those games, with a rookie QB to boot.
We would have been 10-6 last year if our kicker could hit a 40 yard FG at the end.

Kliff isn't perfect and is still growing in the role, clearly, but has improved dramatically in his short time here and now (pending player health) has a solid roster than can win today. I think this year will be a fun dogfight within the division, with four playoff caliber teams in the same spot.

 

[slanidrac16]

Perception.

If you believe Kiem has done an outstanding job putting this 2021 team together then you would have to believe anything less than the playoffs falls on KK’s shoulders.

I don’t believe in Kiems offseason. I think this team is built on a house of cards, no pun intended. We are counting on guys to have bounce back years. If it were one player, cool. But it isn’t. Watts, Green, Butler, Conner and Prater are all players we are pinning our hopes on.

Injuries or under performance to any of the players mentioned above will translate into a roster weaker than last year.

Kiem had no other choice due to his incompetence on draft day. Trading picks for “ proven talent” has crippled us salary cap wise. His free agents have not been the best either. Alford, Kennard and others have been, well, less than stellar.

Yes, KK has to improve. But it wasn’t Kingsbury that missed two fg’s that would have won the game. It wasn’t Kingsbury that dropped a td pass that would have won the game. It wasn’t Kingsbury that our o-line couldn’t punch in a Td on first and goal from the 1 yard line. And finally it isn’t Kingsbury who forces a throw to the wrong Wr.

Yes Kliff Kingsbury has to improve. No doubt. And I get it , crap rolls uphill sometimes. You may not endorse Kingsbury but he will not be the ultimate reason we fail this year.

That my friends falls on Mr. Kiem.

 

[BritCard]

The negativity on this board before training camp has even started is remarkable.

Many here been saying Kliff is a major problem going way back into last season, including me.

The apologists keep saying "Well he needs X type of player to play the system he wants" with the X being a WR1, then a WR2, then a gadget slot guy intermingled with various O line positions he needs. Basically Kliff needs an All Pro offense at every position to succeed apparently.

Last years team should have made the playoffs easily. It was more than good enough and more talented that several teams that did make it. But we didn't because of Kliff's failure to have a plan B when we lost Kyler's legs.

Good coaches don't need absolutely everything to go their way to succeed.

And the "He improved a lot from 5-10 to 8-8" guys can get outta here. Those extra wins came from adding Deandre Hopkins to the offense. Nothing to do with Kliff.

Kliff should on the hottest seat there is. There are no more excuses.

 

[cardncubfan]

"Keim"

 

[football karma]

i think what works for Kliff, but not for Keim, is that the team hasn't made the playoffs for five seasons, and, was both the worst team in 2018 as well as one of the worst teams of the last ten years.

There is an argument to be made that the team overachieved last year given the state of the roster.

 

[BritCard]

Not that hard to understand. It relates to the fierce competition to attract/recruit players in Texas, and as a result, his teams suffered particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

Hmmmnnnnmm

Lot's of winning college teams struggle to attract defensive talent. Why does he get let off the hook like that wasn't his fault. It was his job to recruit players. Maybe, like he seems to do with the Cardinals, he spent all his time focused on his offense and not enough tine focused on the defense?

In total yards allowed during his time at TTU they were,

79 of 128 and went 8-5
125 of 128 and went 4-8
127 of 128 and went 7-6
Dead last of 128 and went 5-7
106 of 130 and went 6-7
119 of 130 and went 5-7

That's some consistently garbage defenses. The year before Kliff took over they had the 49th ranked defense.

Why couldn't Kliff attract enough talent to not be one of the worse defenses in football? The "difficult to recruit in Texas with the other teams" doesn't really wash, UTEP and North texas consistently fielded much better defenses than TTU. As did practically every other minnow school in college football as you can see from the rankings.

Maybe it was just Kliff?

 

[Stout]

Kliff took over a 3 win horrid team, and went 5-10 his first year and we were actually competitive in many of those games, with a rookie QB to boot.
We would have been 10-6 last year if our kicker could hit a 40 yard FG at the end.

Kliff isn't perfect and is still growing in the role, clearly, but has improved dramatically in his short time here and now (pending player health) has a solid roster than can win today. I think this year will be a fun dogfight within the division, with four playoff caliber teams in the same spot.

Excuse me if I don't think a 2-win improvement over possibly the worst Cards team I have ever seen is anything to crow about. And I don't even want to hear the kicker excuses when Kliff was idiotic enough to PURPOSEFULLY PLAY FOR FGs, and LONG FGs at that, at the end of a game with a bad kicker. You literally just argued against your main point in blaming the kicker there.

I didn't see improvement in the play calling, team discipline, clock management, coaching like a scared child at the end of games, or any of his deficiencies last year. I saw more of the same. In order to continue progressing as a HC you kind of have to already be making progress. As another poster has mentioned, we added Nuke to the team. If we hadn't, do you think this offense would have been anything more than the same 5-win team?

 

[BritCard]

There is an argument to be made that the team overachieved last year given the state of the roster.

The only argument I can think of that can't be made is that a team with a top 10 QB, a top 3 WR, an O line that ranked 12th and a defense that finished top half of the league overachieved at 8-8.

 

[DVontel]

Many here been saying Kliff is a major problem going way back into last season, including me.

The apologists keep saying "Well he needs X type of player to play the system he wants" with the X being a WR1, then a WR2, then a gadget slot guy intermingled with various O line positions he needs. Basically Kliff needs an All Pro offense at every position to succeed apparently.

Last years team should have made the playoffs easily. It was more than good enough and more talented that several teams that did make it. But we didn't because of Kliff's failure to have a plan B when we lost Kyler's legs.

Good coaches don't need absolutely everything to go their way to succeed.

And the "He improved a lot from 5-10 to 8-8" guys can get outta here. Those extra wins came from adding Deandre Hopkins to the offense. Nothing to do with Kliff.

Kliff should on the hottest seat there is. There are no more excuses.

I’m actually real interested to see what teams we were more talented than that made the playoffs.

 

[DVontel]

Probably Washington & that’s only because they were in by default due to playing in a horrific division.

 

[SoonerLou]

Perception.

If you believe Kiem has done an outstanding job putting this 2021 team together then you would have to believe anything less than the playoffs falls on KK’s shoulders.

I don’t believe in Kiems offseason. I think this team is built on a house of cards, no pun intended. We are counting on guys to have bounce back years. If it were one player, cool. But it isn’t. Watts, Green, Butler, Conner and Prater are all players we are pinning our hopes on.

Injuries or under performance to any of the players mentioned above will translate into a roster weaker than last year.

Kiem had no other choice due to his incompetence on draft day. Trading picks for “ proven talent” has crippled us salary cap wise. His free agents have not been the best either. Alford, Kennard and others have been, well, less than stellar.

Yes, KK has to improve. But it wasn’t Kingsbury that missed two fg’s that would have won the game. It wasn’t Kingsbury that dropped a td pass that would have won the game. It wasn’t Kingsbury that our o-line couldn’t punch in a Td on first and goal from the 1 yard line. And finally it isn’t Kingsbury who forces a throw to the wrong Wr.

Yes Kliff Kingsbury has to improve. No doubt. And I get it , crap rolls uphill sometimes. You may not endorse Kingsbury but he will not be the ultimate reason we fail this year.

That my friends falls on Mr. Kiem.

If anything thank goodness Keim fell in love with Kyler than Dwayne Haskins. phew.

 

[BritCard]

Excuse me if I don't think a 2-win improvement over possibly the worst Cards team I have ever seen is anything to crow about. And I don't even want to hear the kicker excuses when Kliff was idiotic enough to PURPOSEFULLY PLAY FOR FGs, and LONG FGs at that, at the end of a game with a bad kicker. You literally just argued against your main point in blaming the kicker there.

I didn't see improvement in the play calling, team discipline, clock management, coaching like a scared child at the end of games, or any of his deficiencies last year. I saw more of the same. In order to continue progressing as a HC you kind of have to already be making progress. As another poster has mentioned, we added Nuke to the team. If we hadn't, do you think this offense would have been anything more than the same 5-win team?

This argument always makes me chuckle.

"Kliff took over from one of the worst teams ever and gave us a whole 2 more wins!"

Steve Wilks was a garbage HC but he had Sam Bradford and Rosen at QB. His starting outside CB's outside P2 were Jamar Taylor, Bene Benwikere and David Amerson. His ILB's were Bynes, Hodges and Reddick. He had several games where his starting receivers were Jalen Tolliver, Trent Sherfield and Larry when rookie Kirk was out. The starting TE's was undrafted Seals Jones, John Philips and the corpse of Gresham.

The offensive line was decimated by injuries. We started something like 10 different combinations.

This was our starting offensive line at one point.

Korey Cunningham
Colby Gossett
Mason Cole
Oday Aboushi
Joe Barksdale

The game after this swap out Cunningham for Will Holden. And who could forget Jeremy Vujnovich?

It was literally one of the worst rosters compiled in Cardinals history. It's frankly amazing they got 3 wins. It was so bad most of this roster hasn't played an NFL snap since.

They completely rebuilt the roster for Kliff and I would bet every penny I own that Kliff does no better than Wilkes with this raging dumpster fire of talent.