PFW: Are Cards committed to McCown?

Jim O

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PFW: Are Cards committed to McCown?
By Dan Arkush
[email protected]
Feb. 17, 2004

If a vote were to be taken in the Valley of the Sun on the lowest moment of the Cardinals’ 2003 campaign, the odds are strong that Josh McCown’s backward pass during mop-up duty of Arizona’s ghastly 50-14 loss to the Niners in Week 14 would be high on the list.

At the time, McCown’s wayward toss, which practically stuck in the earhole of OT L.J. Shelton’s helmet, appeared to offer further proof that the second-year pro out of Sam Houston State was just way too skittish and tentative to ever make an impact in the big leagues.

Now fast forward to the final play of the Cardinals’ season finale vs. the Vikings — the no-brainer selection as the Cardinals’ highest moment of this past season.

Following sacks on second and third down, the last of which caused a fumble that the Cardinals scrambled to recover, McCown, in the final act of a Montana-like performance, stepped up in the pocket in the face of unrelenting pressure and slung a 28-yard BB to a leaping Nate Poole in the corner of the endzone. The end result was a stunning 18-17 victory over the Vikings that knocked Minnesota out of the playoffs.

Suddenly, McCown’s skittishness was a distant memory.

Suddenly — although his heroics vs. Minnesota didn’t appear to alter the widely held belief that the Cardinals would use the third overall pick in the draft to select a franchise-caliber quarterback (either Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger) — McCown had become a legitimate keeper.

In a relatively short period of time, the 6-4, 212-pound McCown has become much more than that. With the draft fast approaching, new Cardinals head coach Dennis Green recently raised eyebrows around the league when he said it was highly unlikely the Cardinals would draft a quarterback in the first three rounds because of his confidence in McCown.

“Josh McCown, I think he is going to be a great one,” said Green, who used seven different quarterbacks in the eight seasons in which the Vikings made the playoffs under his direction. “I think people have a hard time believing it, but when I buy into a quarterback, I really do. That’s my track record.”

Nonetheless, there are many who can’t get over the feeling that Green’s fondness for McCown is nothing more than an industrial-sized smokescreen, and that either Manning or Roethlisberger could still be the Cardinals’ top pick come draft day.

In my opinion, Green’s not trying to josh anybody. When he says he sees many of the same qualities in McCown that he saw in Daunte Culpepper, I believe him.

“I see a guy who has tremendous athletic ability,” Green said of McCown. “If you want to pick up the five best quarterbacks (in the NFL) and play a little hoops, he’s going to probably be part of that five. If you are going to pick the four guys and get in a relay race, he’s probably going to be in that four.”

As for McCown himself, he is quick to acknowledge his flashy emergence from the NFL woodwork.

“It’s amazing when you look where I was at the beginning of December,” said McCown of his three-game stint as the Cardinals’ starting quarterback. “If I don’t start those three games, we’re not talking whether I can start long-term, we’re talking whether I can start for Barcelona (in NFL Europe).”

But McCown’s rags-to-riches saga is nothing new, when you consider the massive strides made by Kurt Warner, Tom Brady and Jake Delhomme, among others.

I think McCown, who first opened eyes in the 2002 Senior Bowl, is worth the gamble Green appears intent on making. He’s one of those pure athletes who can make something out of nothing in crunch time. He’s got a strong arm and terrific mobility. Most importantly, he’s got real leadership ability. His command in the huddle was far better than that of Jeff Blake, whom Green wasted no time removing from the equation a few weeks back.

No, I don’t think Green is blowing smoke at all. I think he is now hoping beyond hope that Pittsburgh WR Larry Fitzgerald, a family friend, is still on the board when the Cards make their first pick. Green has been a consistent advocate of the best-available-athlete theory and is on record as saying that Fitzgerald is the best player available in the 2004 draft.

The prospect of adding Fitzgerald to a WR corps also featuring Anquan Boldin, a Pro Bowl sensation in his first season, and 2003 first-round pick Bryant Johnson has to give the offensive-minded Green goose bumps.

What if Fitzgerald is snatched up with the first or second pick? Then I see the Cardinals moving down in the first round — a strategy that they used last season that didn’t turn out all that well, considering the disappointing rookie campaigns of Johnson and the team’s other first-round pick last season, DE Calvin Pace.

But if the Cardinals move down, I see them moving no lower than the eighth spot. Green believes there are eight obvious blue-chippers in this year’s draft — in no particular order, Fitzgerald, Manning, Roethlisberger, Iowa OT Robert Gallery, Miami (Fla.) S Sean Taylor, Miami (Fla.) TE Kellen Winslow Jr., Oklahoma DT Tommie Harris and Texas WR Roy Williams.

Harris or Williams in particular look like excellent fits on the Cardinals’ roster. So does Taylor, especially if the Cardinals try to move Adrian Wilson to cornerback, as has been rumored.

Before signing off, Green recently offered one other really interesting revelation when he said the only entrenched starters on the Cardinals’ roster at the moment were Boldin, LBs Ronald McKinnon and Raynoch Thompson and C Pete Kendall.

Very conspicuous by their absence were Shelton and OG Leonard Davis (each of whom’s contract was extended last November), RB Marcel Shipp and former Buccaneers S Dexter Jackson, who offered many more pluses than minuses in his first season with the Cardinals.

More smoke in the Valley of the Sun? Only Dennis Green knows for sure.
 

JeffGollin

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I'm not a big Arkush fan, but he does encapsulize most of what's being thrown back and forth on this board about the Cardinal draft.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
PFW: Are Cards committed to McCown?
By Dan Arkush
[email protected]
Feb. 17, 2004

If a vote were to be taken in the Valley of the Sun on the lowest moment of the Cardinals’ 2003 campaign, the odds are strong that Josh McCown’s backward pass during mop-up duty of Arizona’s ghastly 50-14 loss to the Niners in Week 14 would be high on the list.

At the time, McCown’s wayward toss, which practically stuck in the earhole of OT L.J. Shelton’s helmet, appeared to offer further proof that the second-year pro out of Sam Houston State was just way too skittish and tentative to ever make an impact in the big leagues.

Now fast forward to the final play of the Cardinals’ season finale vs. the Vikings — the no-brainer selection as the Cardinals’ highest moment of this past season.

Following sacks on second and third down, the last of which caused a fumble that the Cardinals scrambled to recover, McCown, in the final act of a Montana-like performance, stepped up in the pocket in the face of unrelenting pressure and slung a 28-yard BB to a leaping Nate Poole in the corner of the endzone. The end result was a stunning 18-17 victory over the Vikings that knocked Minnesota out of the playoffs.

Suddenly, McCown’s skittishness was a distant memory.

Suddenly — although his heroics vs. Minnesota didn’t appear to alter the widely held belief that the Cardinals would use the third overall pick in the draft to select a franchise-caliber quarterback (either Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger) — McCown had become a legitimate keeper.

In a relatively short period of time, the 6-4, 212-pound McCown has become much more than that. With the draft fast approaching, new Cardinals head coach Dennis Green recently raised eyebrows around the league when he said it was highly unlikely the Cardinals would draft a quarterback in the first three rounds because of his confidence in McCown.

“Josh McCown, I think he is going to be a great one,” said Green, who used seven different quarterbacks in the eight seasons in which the Vikings made the playoffs under his direction. “I think people have a hard time believing it, but when I buy into a quarterback, I really do. That’s my track record.”

Nonetheless, there are many who can’t get over the feeling that Green’s fondness for McCown is nothing more than an industrial-sized smokescreen, and that either Manning or Roethlisberger could still be the Cardinals’ top pick come draft day.

In my opinion, Green’s not trying to josh anybody. When he says he sees many of the same qualities in McCown that he saw in Daunte Culpepper, I believe him.

“I see a guy who has tremendous athletic ability,” Green said of McCown. “If you want to pick up the five best quarterbacks (in the NFL) and play a little hoops, he’s going to probably be part of that five. If you are going to pick the four guys and get in a relay race, he’s probably going to be in that four.”

As for McCown himself, he is quick to acknowledge his flashy emergence from the NFL woodwork.

“It’s amazing when you look where I was at the beginning of December,” said McCown of his three-game stint as the Cardinals’ starting quarterback. “If I don’t start those three games, we’re not talking whether I can start long-term, we’re talking whether I can start for Barcelona (in NFL Europe).”

But McCown’s rags-to-riches saga is nothing new, when you consider the massive strides made by Kurt Warner, Tom Brady and Jake Delhomme, among others.

I think McCown, who first opened eyes in the 2002 Senior Bowl, is worth the gamble Green appears intent on making. He’s one of those pure athletes who can make something out of nothing in crunch time. He’s got a strong arm and terrific mobility. Most importantly, he’s got real leadership ability. His command in the huddle was far better than that of Jeff Blake, whom Green wasted no time removing from the equation a few weeks back.

No, I don’t think Green is blowing smoke at all. I think he is now hoping beyond hope that Pittsburgh WR Larry Fitzgerald, a family friend, is still on the board when the Cards make their first pick. Green has been a consistent advocate of the best-available-athlete theory and is on record as saying that Fitzgerald is the best player available in the 2004 draft.

The prospect of adding Fitzgerald to a WR corps also featuring Anquan Boldin, a Pro Bowl sensation in his first season, and 2003 first-round pick Bryant Johnson has to give the offensive-minded Green goose bumps.

What if Fitzgerald is snatched up with the first or second pick? Then I see the Cardinals moving down in the first round — a strategy that they used last season that didn’t turn out all that well, considering the disappointing rookie campaigns of Johnson and the team’s other first-round pick last season, DE Calvin Pace.

But if the Cardinals move down, I see them moving no lower than the eighth spot. Green believes there are eight obvious blue-chippers in this year’s draft — in no particular order, Fitzgerald, Manning, Roethlisberger, Iowa OT Robert Gallery, Miami (Fla.) S Sean Taylor, Miami (Fla.) TE Kellen Winslow Jr., Oklahoma DT Tommie Harris and Texas WR Roy Williams.

Harris or Williams in particular look like excellent fits on the Cardinals’ roster. So does Taylor, especially if the Cardinals try to move Adrian Wilson to cornerback, as has been rumored.

Before signing off, Green recently offered one other really interesting revelation when he said the only entrenched starters on the Cardinals’ roster at the moment were Boldin, LBs Ronald McKinnon and Raynoch Thompson and C Pete Kendall.

Very conspicuous by their absence were Shelton and OG Leonard Davis (each of whom’s contract was extended last November), RB Marcel Shipp and former Buccaneers S Dexter Jackson, who offered many more pluses than minuses in his first season with the Cardinals.

More smoke in the Valley of the Sun? Only Dennis Green knows for sure.

Ok, so Dennis Green is either a stinking genius or a babbling idiot. You figure it out:

Scenario #1 Say McCown is your starter and you wont draft a QB....
1. Hoping a team will trade with Cards so they can grab one of the QB's and you can STILL get the player you want (Taylor) + picks
2. Really go into the year with McCown as your starter

Scenario#2 Say McCown is your starter and you wont draft a QB but
1. Really want a QB with the #3 pick
2. Pretty certain Oakland wont draft a QB
3. Say these things so a team WONT jump ahead of you and grab one of the QB's you secretly covet.

Scenario #3 Say McCown is your starter and you wont draft a QB.
but
1. Cards real interest lies in Fitzgerald.
2. Hoping Oakland DOES want a QB and grabs him
3. Draft Fitz #3

Scenario #4 Say McCown is your starter and you wont draft a QB.
but
1. You dont care who you get as long as it is top 8
2. Smokescreen so a team will have to trade with you if they really want a player besides a QB because now they arent sure who ythe Cards will pick.
3. Trade down get one of the top 8 and additonal picks.
4. McCown still starting


Scenario #3 would be the 'babbling idiot' part. I think if you are really convinced a player is "IT" you do what it takes to get him. Hoping Oakland doesnt take Fitz and waiitng at #3 for him is assinine and I hope it is not DG's thinking!

I am more and more starting to think that DG is saying these things b/c
1. He really does beleieve in McCown
2. He doesnt care who he takes as long as it is top 8
3. Cards will trade down so someone who really covets Roth or Manning (Cleveland maybe?) will move up
4. Cards select Gallery or Winslow etc, get an extra third
 

spanky1

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I believe McCown is REALLY the QB for 2004. Whether he becomes the "franchise QB" thereafter remains to be played out. I truly believe that Green will NOT select a QB with the #3 pick.

I believe that Green REALLY wants/hopes that Fitzgerald falls to us at #3. I also believe that under no circumsatances will he trade up to assure that he gets Fitz. The cost is not worth it.

If he can't get Fitz, I believe that Green will make every effort to trade out of the # 3 slot and will look to Cleveland as the most likely, followed by Pittsburgh. If he can't trade out of the #3 slot, I believe that Green will not lose too much sleep over it.

I believe that Green will use our first pick on a WR, be it at #3 or at #8 and if Fitz isn't available he'll pick Roy Williams.

There it is......the world according to spanky.
 

Assface

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I really don't want a reciever with our first pick. We already have someone who is arguably a top 5 at that position heading into his second year and we don't have any other players who you can say that about. I'd rather fix one of our many problem areas.
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by spanky1
...Green will make every effort to trade out of the # 3 slot and will look to Cleveland as the most likely...

Do you have anything to substantitate this idea that Cleveland so ardently wants to move into the Top 3 and select a quarterback? The only time I hear that is from you, and it's infecting other posters (LVCARDFREAK repeated it, like a parrot). Do you have anything that suggests that this is true?
 

red desert

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Originally posted by kerouac9
Do you have anything to substantitate this idea that Cleveland so ardently wants to move into the Top 3 and select a quarterback? The only time I hear that is from you, and it's infecting other posters (LVCARDFREAK repeated it, like a parrot). Do you have anything that suggests that this is true?

The injury to Holcomb may prompt them to make just such a move.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Originally posted by kerouac9
Do you have anything to substantitate this idea that Cleveland so ardently wants to move into the Top 3 and select a quarterback? The only time I hear that is from you, and it's infecting other posters (LVCARDFREAK repeated it, like a parrot). Do you have anything that suggests that this is true?


I repeated it because I saw it on KFFL that Cleveland migt be interested in Roth. It said nothing about Maning, just that they are interested in Roth.

Frankly with the way their money is tied up in Holcomb and Couch I cant imagine they would entertain it but who knows?


I will find it on KFFL and post it
 

spanky1

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Originally posted by kerouac9
Do you have anything to substantitate this idea that Cleveland so ardently wants to move into the Top 3 and select a quarterback? The only time I hear that is from you, and it's infecting other posters (LVCARDFREAK repeated it, like a parrot). Do you have anything that suggests that this is true?

a)Holcomb is out for 6 months
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by spanky1
a)Holcomb is out for 6 months

But is there any reason that they couldn't/wouldn't rather trade down and get Rivers or Losman? Just an example.

Last I heard, they were re-negotiating with Couch, who was more than willing to lower his salary in order to stay in Cleveland. You're grasping at straws to say over and over that the Browns want to trade up.

The fact that their backup QB is injured (and high-quality backups are available in Blake and Stewart) is hardly an endorsement for a team with a HC/GM who needs to get back to the playoffs this year to keep his job.

I'm not from Missouri, but SHOW ME.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Originally posted by kerouac9
But is there any reason that they couldn't/wouldn't rather trade down and get Rivers or Losman? Just an example.

Last I heard, they were re-negotiating with Couch, who was more than willing to lower his salary in order to stay in Cleveland. You're grasping at straws to say over and over that the Browns want to trade up.

The fact that their backup QB is injured (and high-quality backups are available in Blake and Stewart) is hardly an endorsement for a team with a HC/GM who needs to get back to the playoffs this year to keep his job.

I'm not from Missouri, but SHOW ME.


If your not from Missouri you cant use that line...sorry man I dont make the rules!
 

spanky1

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kerouac9,

I'm sorry, I can't recall the exact publication and or article that I read this about Cleveland's love affair with Roesthlisberger but it is very real. I know that you deserve a better response than this.

If memory serves me well I read it over on www.gbnreport.com

I'll be more cautious about making such bold statements without accessing the appropriate article in the future.
 

JeffGollin

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Think "Variety of Options."

Smokescreen or no smokescreen - by doing what he's doing and saying what he's saying, Denny can move in many different directions depending on what he can net out with in terms of (a) offers made by other teams and (b) the way the draft goes.

- He could wind up with a franchise rookie QBOF.

- He could wind up with a premier receiver to compliment Boldin.

- He could work trades for additional picks or players.

What we don't know are (1) what his priorities are or (2) what values he and Rod assign various draft and trade prospects relative to (3) what values he assigns his own players.

By keeping as many options open, he maximizes the opportunities for other GM's to make him offers. (Personally, I like it!)

 

CaptTurbo

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Is fitzgerald coming out early like that clarett character or is he a junior forgoing his last college year?
 

CaptTurbo

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If he is a sophmore and coming out early I dont want him (fitzgerald). Those guys are going to be huge targets and will be crushed. many of the sophmores, if they start, wont finish the season not on the IR.
 

HoodieBets

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Originally posted by swd1974
If he is a sophmore and coming out early I dont want him (fitzgerald). Those guys are going to be huge targets and will be crushed. many of the sophmores, if they start, wont finish the season not on the IR.

He is 3 years removed from HS but only has had two years of college. Physically he is the same as every other player in the draft.
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by swd1974
If he is a sophmore and coming out early I dont want him (fitzgerald). Those guys are going to be huge targets and will be crushed. many of the sophmores, if they start, wont finish the season not on the IR.

He's a 20-year old sophomore, so he's about the same age as most Jr.s coming into the NFL.
 

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Here is hopin to Fitz running a slow 40 so that he can go to the Cards at #3 because of Green. As much as I like Taylor... adding Fitz would give the Cards the best young WR'S in the league
 

Red Air Force

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Yeah, but man thats an awfull lot of money to tie up in the recievers. B. Johnson is getting 1st rd money, Fitz would get HIGH 1st rd money, and Boldin will restructure to get top WR money. Not to mention they would all become free agents at about the same time.

What we need to do is get an upper middle tier FA vet WR, and develop Johnson into a good complement for Boldin.

Northcutt would seem to be a good fit to me. Speedy slot guy at a good price.
 

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