Phoenix Suns have begun search for new general manager

[1Sun]

Stepien would be a step down even from Sarver - well, 2 steps down since he's been dead a decade or so.

Actually, I think that might be an improvement...

 

[Phrazbit]

Billy King and Isiah Thomas, at least in my lifetime of following the league, the absolute worst front office men of all time. I realize the King reference was in jest, but he does deserve some credit... that guy was incompetent on a level that was so absurd that is rose to comedy, and he somehow did it with two different franchises.

I've mentioned this trade before, I will mention it again because it needs more recognition.

Billy King trading for Gerald Wallace was the single stupidest trade in NBA history.

Granted, it wasn't even the most damaging trade he did as the Nets GM, his trade with Boston was much worse, but while bad and obviously stupid at the moment it happened, there was at least a sliver of (stupid) logic behind the Boston trade. They were surrendering their future, for like a decade, to try to win right then, with a team featuring a bunch of all-stars and one time future superstar Deron Williams (a dude so cancerous that he got Jerry Sloan fired)... granted they were old and overpaid, but, only a couple years earlier they were the core of a title team. The Boston trade was awful, one of the dumbest trades in league history and arguably the most damaging trade of all-time.

But... roughly a year earlier King did something stupider, but... somewhat... less damaging.

On March 16th 2012, the Nets traded a top 3 protected pick (plus some dead money contracts the Blazers waived) for Gerald Wallace. On face value... it's a already a head scratcher, but 2 factors make it, IMO, the dumbest trade in NBA history. Gerald Wallace was a couple months away from being a unrestricted free agent... yeah... a virtually unprotected pick for a dude who is just about to be on the open market, a scary proposition in itself. And, topping even Wallace's UFA status... the Nets were 15-30 at the time. Yes, 15-30, they were one of the WORST teams in the league and they traded a nearly unprotected pick for an unrestricted free agent and it's not even like they cleared cap space, no, this trade was straight up, one of the worst teams in the league giving up a 1st rounder for an aging, unrestricted, free agent.

Part of King's reasoning for the deal was that the 15-30 Nets were in "win now" mode. Between that trade, the picks they gave up for Deron Williams and the insane pick package they gave Boston it is safe to say that Billy King thought draft picks were virtually worthless.

But hey... that pick only ended up being Damien freaking Lillard.

 

[Phrazbit]

Back on topic, I am glad to hear we're trying to find an adult to run the show, and that the league is on the brink of stepping in and forcing the issue if Sarver continues to ignore the lessons of the past.

 

[Willie D]

How hard is it to understand that when you become a fan of a team that even if you relocate yourself you are still a fan of the team? Fandom doesn't die because you move. Being a fan of a team only changes when that team does the same. ...

I guess I would ask you the following:

1. What do baseball fans in Brooklyn think of the Dodgers?
2. What do basketball fans in Seattle think about the Thunder?
3. What do basketball fans in St. Louis think about the Atlanta Hawks?
4. What do hockey fans in Atlanta think of the Calgary Flames?
5. What do Baltimore football fans think of the Colts?

Quick answer to all 5: NOTHING.

Phoenix has had the luxury to being a net collector of teams over the decades. We got the Cardinals from St. Louis/Chicago, and yet still, Phoenix football fans complain that locals wear Dallas Cowboys jerseys to the game. Even worse, the D-backs are an original team, just like the Suns. Yet people complain about the proliferation of Cubs and other teams' unis when they play at home. We got the Winnipeg Jets. With Doaner's retirement, you just severed the last thread of care anyone in Winnipeg had about this team. And quite frankly, probably a lot of other hockey fans in the Valley, who are tired of the Laff-a-Lympics with owners.

The Suns are the favored son of Phoenix. I have no clue if they will leave. In the unlikely event that they do, for wherever, they should cease to be the SunS. Take the Cleveland Browns' play and require the team to change its name. At that point, most non-Phonecians (born her or not) will soon forget about the Las Vegas Aces or the Kansas City Monarchs, your love of the "Phoenix Suns" will die. Tom Chambers and EJ will not longer be on the TV doing game prep. Al McCoy will retire, and we will be without "the original pro team."

 

[Phrazbit]

I guess I would ask you the following:

1. What do baseball fans in Brooklyn think of the Dodgers?
2. What do basketball fans in Seattle think about the Thunder?
3. What do basketball fans in St. Louis think about the Atlanta Hawks?
4. What do hockey fans in Atlanta think of the Calgary Flames?
5. What do Baltimore football fans think of the Colts?

Quick answer to all 5: NOTHING.

Phoenix has had the luxury to being a net collector of teams over the decades. We got the Cardinals from St. Louis/Chicago, and yet still, Phoenix football fans complain that locals wear Dallas Cowboys jerseys to the game. Even worse, the D-backs are an original team, just like the Suns. Yet people complain about the proliferation of Cubs and other teams' unis when they play at home. We got the Winnipeg Jets. With Doaner's retirement, you just severed the last thread of care anyone in Winnipeg had about this team. And quite frankly, probably a lot of other hockey fans in the Valley, who are tired of the Laff-a-Lympics with owners.

The Suns are the favored son of Phoenix. I have no clue if they will leave. In the unlikely event that they do, for wherever, they should cease to be the SunS. Take the Cleveland Browns' play and require the team to change its name. At that point, most non-Phonecians (born her or not) will soon forget about the Las Vegas Aces or the Kansas City Monarchs, your love of the "Phoenix Suns" will die. Tom Chambers and EJ will not longer be on the TV doing game prep. Al McCoy will retire, and we will be without "the original pro team."

I think you and Poop Head are arguing the same side of the coin.

A franchise's identity isn't just a name, it's the history that comes with it. If the Suns moved then their history as the Phoenix Suns is dead, no one in the new city would give a crap about Paul Westpaul, Thunder Dan, the 1993 Finals, ect... the team's history and it's community would be dead to virtually anyone who rooted for the Phoenix Suns, regardless of where those fans lived.

On top of that, teams almost never keep the same name anymore. If the Suns moved anywhere outside of Arizona this is virtually no chance that any part of their name, uniforms... anything, would carry over. It would be a different team, with a different look, with whatever players were still signed, and for anyone who cared about the franchise before the move, those players would only be associated with the death of their franchise.

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess I would ask you the following:

1. What do baseball fans in Brooklyn think of the Dodgers?
2. What do basketball fans in Seattle think about the Thunder?
3. What do basketball fans in St. Louis think about the Atlanta Hawks?
4. What do hockey fans in Atlanta think of the Calgary Flames?
5. What do Baltimore football fans think of the Colts?

Quick answer to all 5: NOTHING.

Phoenix has had the luxury to being a net collector of teams over the decades. We got the Cardinals from St. Louis/Chicago, and yet still, Phoenix football fans complain that locals wear Dallas Cowboys jerseys to the game. Even worse, the D-backs are an original team, just like the Suns. Yet people complain about the proliferation of Cubs and other teams' unis when they play at home. We got the Winnipeg Jets. With Doaner's retirement, you just severed the last thread of care anyone in Winnipeg had about this team. And quite frankly, probably a lot of other hockey fans in the Valley, who are tired of the Laff-a-Lympics with owners.

The Suns are the favored son of Phoenix. I have no clue if they will leave. In the unlikely event that they do, for wherever, they should cease to be the SunS. Take the Cleveland Browns' play and require the team to change its name. At that point, most non-Phonecians (born her or not) will soon forget about the Las Vegas Aces or the Kansas City Monarchs, your love of the "Phoenix Suns" will die. Tom Chambers and EJ will not longer be on the TV doing game prep. Al McCoy will retire, and we will be without "the original pro team."

I agree with you on all that. A fan can move and stay a fan but once a team moves that team dies to all of it's fans. That was the point I was trying to make so I'm pretty sure we agree.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree with you on all that. A fan can move and stay a fan but once a team moves that team dies to all of it's fans. That was the point I was trying to make so I'm pretty sure we agree.

That would be the case for me. And likely most fans. But the Arizona Cardinals price otherwise. There in fans on ASFN that have remained fans of the cards post move.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That would be the case for me. And likely most fans. But the Arizona Cardinals price otherwise. There in fans on ASFN that have remained fans of the cards post move.

??

Are you talking about St Louis fans? I could imagine that some Cards fans who happened to live in AZ remaining Cards fans when the Cards moved from St Louis to Phoenix.

 

[AzStevenCal]

??

Are you talking about St Louis fans? I could imagine that some Cards fans who happened to live in AZ remaining Cards fans when the Cards moved from St Louis to Phoenix.

There have been a lot of fans on this site that we inherited when the St Louis Cardinals became the Phoenix Cards. Some of them live in Philadelphia, some in New York, some in Boston and so on.

 

[Willie D]

??

Are you talking about St Louis fans? I could imagine that some Cards fans who happened to live in AZ remaining Cards fans when the Cards moved from St Louis to Phoenix.

I don't think I can agree with you on that one. I moved to Phoenix in 1981...from St. Louis. There were plenty of pro football fans, but few, if any that I can recall. The city was blanketed by Cowboys jerseys. There might have been a few, but I think extrapolating that from an ASFN user list of 5,000 people is a bit too far. Heck, I was born in St, Louis, and I never rooted for the Cardinals. Neither did most people who lived there. When we landed in Phoenix, we gravitated to the available teams out here: The Suns, the Phoenix Firebirds, the Phoenix Roadrunners, and ASU. But since there was no MLB team in Phoenix until 1998, we were still lifelong Cardinal baseball fans.

Add to that most people from St. Louis do their winter vacations in Florida. They just don't come out here like people from Illinois and Michigan and Colorado. I can't explain it. When I was told the family was moving to Scottsdale, I asked, "Where the f*** is that."

Anyway, as a result of all this, I finally sat down and watched the second half of the Lakers-Suns game. The first game I've seen in quite a while. And even my daughter caught me getting a tad misty-eyed as the clock wound down to 0:00. Too many good memories.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

??

Are you talking about St Louis fans? I could imagine that some Cards fans who happened to live in AZ remaining Cards fans when the Cards moved from St Louis to Phoenix.

Yes St. Louis fans. And oddballs who love the cardinals but never lived in any city in which the cards played like Daves.