Pick Watch 2018

[JCSunsfan]

The luxury tax hasn't helped with the top teams who are willing to pay for championships. It has created some parity with the lesser teams but they are not the problem.

It's a tough fix without a hard cap.

Maybe double or triple the luxury tax.

There is more to the luxury tax than competitive equality. Its the NBA's way of profit sharing.

 

[Mainstreet]

There is more to the luxury tax than competitive equality. Its the NBA's way of profit sharing.

Well yes. However, if the luxury tax kept going up the team owners that would be paying the bill. At some point enough might be enough.

It's unlikely to happen though.

 

[Hoop Head]

Shouldn't luxury tax even the playing field and stop teams from getting too many stars? Maybe it should be a hard limit so the rich/willing won't be able to get around it.

The luxury tax is tiered now and there are also repeater taxes that will hit some teams that consistently go over. Here is info on how the tax is calculated.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

It's a lot different than before with the tiered system. Because of the huge increase to the cap with the TV money coming in that helped knock most teams below the tax line and they're finally starting to hit it again now that players are reworking their contracts to reflect the increased cap. That cap has only been in place for 2 offseason, by the end of the 2019 offseason almost all players will be signed to contracts based on the larger salary cap. That will be the 4th offseason with the increased cap. Since the maximum length of a contract has been 5 years, it'll take 4-5 offseason's for all of the old contracts based on the lower cap to run there course. Remember that Bledsoe and Knight signed near max deals for around $15-16 million a year, under the new cap they'd be signing for around $21-22 million a year. The max for players coming off their rookie scaled contracts is 25%. Paying 25% of the $65 million cap was a lot easier for teams than paying 25% of a $100 million dollar cap.

You can look at the Warriors as a team that has benefitted from signing players to the previous cap because of their 4 stars they only have Steph and Durant signed to max deals based on the new salary cap. All of their players were signed when the increase came in so they managed to add Durant to their team. Of course their players are coming due for extensions, like how Steph resigned last offseason. These next couple of years they'll need to pay Klay & Draymond but they won't be able to pay all of them the max. Max for players after 8-9 seasons in the league is 35% of the salary cap. They can't pay KD, Steph, Klay, and Green that much without going far into the luxury tax. They really got lucky with how all of their players were signed but their team will need to be broken up after another year or so. That's why the Suns and other teams have been building based on the timeline.

 

[pokerface]

Shouldn't luxury tax even the playing field and stop teams from getting too many stars? Maybe it should be a hard limit so the rich/willing won't be able to get around it.

See that is exactly the point. It's unfair to crack down on lousy teams that tank when there is no hard salary cap in place to keep rich teams from gobbling up talent. Plus what about teams that don't tank but are just bad? They get "punished" equally.

The more you try to fix this tanking "problem" the more problems are created. Bottomline, bad teams need a way to get better. Plus there is a randomness with the lottery plus a randomness to picking young unproven players that we don't need to worry about teams gaming the system. The most losingest team only has a 25% chance of getting a number one pick and the number one pick isn't guaranteed of being the best player of that particular draft. So is all this obsession over tanking warranted?

 

[Mainstreet]

See that is exactly the point. It's unfair to crack down on lousy teams that tank when there is no hard salary cap in place to keep rich teams from gobbling up talent. Plus what about teams that don't tank but are just bad? They get "punished" equally.

The more you try to fix this tanking "problem" the more problems are created. Bottomline, bad teams need a way to get better. Plus there is a randomness with the lottery plus a randomness to picking young unproven players that we don't need to worry about teams gaming the system. The most losingest team only has a 25% chance of getting a number one pick and the number one pick isn't guaranteed of being the best player of that particular draft. So is all this obsession over tanking warranted?

Says the man who wrote the 'Emergency TANK!" thread.

Actually I agree with a lot you have to say except for those teams that go way out of their way to lose.

There is a reason the NBA changed the rules pertaining to the draft lottery system thanks a lot to Sam Hinkie.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Says the man who wrote the 'Emergency TANK!" thread.

Actually I agree with a lot you have to say except for teams that go way out of there way to lose.

There is a reason the NBA changed the rules pertaining to the draft lottery system thanks a lot to Sam Hinkie.

If they are going to start cashin in on gambling revenues, it will not work for them to have teams that are not trying to win.

 

[Mainstreet]

If they are going to start cashin in on gambling revenues, it will not work for them to have teams that are not trying to win.

Amazing. I never thought of it this way but it is a logical conclusion.

 

[Errntknght]

I don't believe the NBA should fret about what tanking does to gambling - the more it harms gambling the better, IMO. I basically agree with Pokerface that we are liable to damage the game more by worrying overly about tanking than just accepting that it's going to happen. It does tend to diminish the disparity among the teams, which is problem in it's own right. I've always been in favor of a hard cap as way to level the playing field.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't believe the NBA should fret about what tanking does to gambling - the more it harms gambling the better, IMO. I basically agree with Pokerface that we are liable to damage the game more by worrying overly about tanking than just accepting that it's going to happen. It does tend to diminish the disparity among the teams, which is problem in it's own right. I've always been in favor of a hard cap as way to level the playing field.

I am in favor if that too, but that will tend to benefit the big market teams. They get to keep more of their money while the smaller market team don’t get those tax dollars.

It would be interesting to award compensatory picks for free agent losses like the NFL. Not sure it would work. Maybe if a team signs a big time free agent they have to give up a pick. Not sure just thinking.

 

[Phrazbit]

Call me jaded, but tank or no tank, we pick 4th or 5th... the lotto gods hate us.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'll happily take 4th or 5th. That gives us one of Bamba, Jackson, Bagley, or Young.

 

[overseascardfan]

Cuban keeping it real with interview with Dr J saying DAL best option this year is to tank. Tanking is the only way to bring parity to the NBA with all these super teams the only way for bad teams to compete is to use draft lottery to get players that will make them competitive.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sometimes the best choices are the ones you can't make.

I hope the Suns draft #1 to draft BPA on the Suns board and to have trade options but drafting even #7 or #8 should yield a good player.

Interestingly, on The Stepien, Mikal Bridges is listed at #7 with Bamba and Carter #8 and #9 respectively. I like what Bamba would bring to the Suns but they need another shooter.

 

[Chaplin]

Cuban keeping it real with interview with Dr J saying DAL best option this year is to tank. Tanking is the only way to bring parity to the NBA with all these super teams the only way for bad teams to compete is to use draft lottery to get players that will make them competitive.

Cuban is in A LOT of trouble right now. That Mavericks organization is crashing hard.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sometimes the best choices are the ones you can't make.

I hope the Suns draft #1 to draft BPA on the Suns board and to have trade options but drafting even #7 or #8 should yield a good player.

Interestingly, on The Stepien, Mikal Bridges is listed at #7 with Bamba and Carter #8 and #9 respectively. I like what Bamba would bring to the Suns but they need another shooter.

Getting Bamba or Carter would be greatly helpful. Bamba is a Marcus Camby type, long thin shot-blocker rebounder. Carter seems an Al Horford type. Again type. Not exact type, there are always differences, or as good as or anything like that. I am not sure which type of player would be best for this team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Cuban is in A LOT of trouble right now. That Mavericks organization is crashing hard.

yep.

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK. Here is my idea for fixing the tanking problem. There should be a draft pick tournament at the end of the year. All the non-playoff teams are in it. It should be a single elimination tournament. The top two teams in the tourney get the top two picks. After that the draft goes according to reverse regular season record. That way bad teams will still get a good pick and improve their roster. But you will have to improve to really improve. The path to rebuilding would be getting a 3-5 pick and adding free agents until you can move up among the non-playoff teams. Then you go for getting a 1-2 pick in the draft tourney to launch you into playoff contention. You have to get a little bit better to get a lot better. I am sure there are holes in this, but its just an idea.

 

[Raindog]

OK. Here is my idea for fixing the tanking problem. There should be a draft pick tournament at the end of the year. All the non-playoff teams are in it. It should be a single elimination tournament. The top two teams in the tourney get the top two picks. After that the draft goes according to reverse regular season record. That way bad teams will still get a good pick and improve their roster. But you will have to improve to really improve. The path to rebuilding would be getting a 3-5 pick and adding free agents until you can move up among the non-playoff teams. Then you go for getting a 1-2 pick in the draft tourney to launch you into playoff contention. You have to get a little bit better to get a lot better. I am sure there are holes in this, but its just an idea.

Something like this COULD work... if the lottery was limited to say, just the worst six teams or so. It would most definitely NOT be fair to include all of the teams who miss the playoffs, some of which often just barely miss them.

And by the way, just WHY does the lottery have to include ALL of the teams that miss the playoffs anyway? There is no logical reason why it needs to include even good teams that happen to miss the postseason because they are playing in a more competitive conference. It is ridiculous that teams that win 45+ games get even a slight shot at the number one pick in the lotto.

There is absolutely no logical reason the lottery can't be limited to the worst six to eight teams, and everyone else gets seeded according to record. It doesn't increase the incentive to tank any more than the current system, and eliminates the element of unfairness that some basically good team that misses the playoffs for whatever reason (competitive conference, injury, bad luck) lucking into a top three pick in a loaded draft.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

OK. Here is my idea for fixing the tanking problem. There should be a draft pick tournament at the end of the year. All the non-playoff teams are in it. It should be a single elimination tournament. The top two teams in the tourney get the top two picks. After that the draft goes according to reverse regular season record. That way bad teams will still get a good pick and improve their roster. But you will have to improve to really improve. The path to rebuilding would be getting a 3-5 pick and adding free agents until you can move up among the non-playoff teams. Then you go for getting a 1-2 pick in the draft tourney to launch you into playoff contention. You have to get a little bit better to get a lot better. I am sure there are holes in this, but its just an idea.

So the teams that get the top picks are the teams that are already pretty good teams? That completely goes against the whole point of the lottery to begin with. The worst teams need the higher picks the most because they typically have the least amount of top end talent.

 

[elindholm]

Cuban is in A LOT of trouble right now. That Mavericks organization is crashing hard.

He was just fined $600,000 for saying his team should tank.

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/02/...ban-fined-comments-tanking-official-release#/

 

[JCSunsfan]

So the teams that get the top picks are the teams that are already pretty good teams? That completely goes against the whole point of the lottery to begin with. The worst teams need the higher picks the most because they typically have the least amount of top end talent.

Yep. That is exactly the idea. The worst teams get decent picks. So they can improve some, to get a chance to get the top two picks so they can improve a lot. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but to me it makes sense anyway.

 

[BC867]

Cuban is in A LOT of trouble right now. That Mavericks organization is crashing hard.

Didn't he say that he's thinking of running for POTUS? Maybe he just doesn't give a damn about the NBA.

 

[Chaplin]

Didn't he say that he's thinking of running for POTUS? Maybe he just doesn't give a damn about the NBA.

Hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but the timing is suspect.

 

[Mainstreet]

McDonough or Triano will not tank the rest of the season.

“I think we learned from last year with guys sitting out," he said. "I don’t think that was real productive for us.”

McDonough said the Suns’ intentions for the final 23 games should have been clear when they traded for point guard Elfrid Payton.

“If we weren’t trying to win, we wouldn’t have traded for Elfrid,” he said.

McDonough cited two other factors for not tanking. First, there’s no guarantee losing games will result in a higher pick. Last season, the Suns finished with the second-worst record in the NBA but wound up drafting fourth and taking Josh Jackson.

The Suns will continue to play their younger players though.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ns-wont-tank-final-23-games-season/361063002/

 

[Chaplin]

McDonough or Triano will not tank the rest of the season.





The Suns will continue to play their younger players though.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ns-wont-tank-final-23-games-season/361063002/

Of course there's no guarantee losing games will result in a higher pick. But it's a fact that winning more games reduces our chances for getting a higher pick. That's simple truth. That's such a flimsy reason.