Play action

[Duckjake]

Man the Titans play action is effective.

That is exactly what I'm hoping will develop for the Cards with Beanie Wells. For the first time in years we actually have a back that teams might have to respect. If you give Warner an extra second with our Wideouts we can destroy people.

 

[D-Dogg]

Warner runs an UGLY playaction though. I don't think we'll be fooling anyone, unfortunately.

 

[lauraw]

Ugly but effective..

 

[Duckjake]

Warner runs an UGLY playaction though. I don't think we'll be fooling anyone, unfortunately.

Is that because they knew it wouldn't work so the O just didn't give it much effort or is it Warner. Seems to me that with the addition of Wells it would be something the coaching staff would work on to make it more effective.

 

[D-Dogg]

Yeah, I hope he can learn to do more than to poke the ball away from his body in the general direction of the back while looking downfield the whole time.

With a back like Beanie, selling the fake could mean TD Fitz, Boldin or Breaston in a flash.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Is that because they knew it wouldn't work so the O just didn't give it much effort or is it Warner. Seems to me that with the addition of Wells it would be something the coaching staff would work on to make it more effective.

In previous years, the line couldn't hold up long enough to allow a PA to develop. Also, the way Kurt holds the ball, especially in retreat, is a clue as to whether he will pass or not. (he doesn't know how to sell the PA) Third, the way that Warner stands behind the center, is another indication as to whether he will pass or not. Fourth, the Cards idea of playaction is to fake the pass and run a draw up the middle.

The playaction should be much more effective with Leinart. I'm willing to wait it out for Warner to start the year.

 

[RedRob]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I seem to recall the announcers during one of our recent preseason games throw out Kurt's QB rating on play action passes last year; it was freaking off the charts.

Does anybody remember exactly what they said?

 

[Duckjake]

In previous years, the line couldn't hold up long enough to allow a PA to develop. Also, the way Kurt holds the ball, especially in retreat, is a clue as to whether he will pass or not. (he doesn't know how to sell the PA) Third, the way that Warner stands behind the center, is another indication as to whether he will pass or not. Fourth, the Cards idea of playaction is to fake the pass and run a draw up the middle.

The playaction should be much more effective with Leinart. I'm willing to wait it out for Warner to start the year.

Hard to argue with that. But how much of #4 was a result of not having anyone who was a real home run threat at running back?

 

[conraddobler]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I seem to recall the announcers during one of our recent preseason games throw out Kurt's QB rating on play action passes last year; it was freaking off the charts.

Does anybody remember exactly what they said?

Can't remember or find it but I do remember them quoting something off the charts and I did find this.

In three playoff games, Warner has completed 93.4 percent of his play-action passes. The average play-action completion is 13.4 yards.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3842814&type=story

I think it's so hard to defend Warner's passing and the imperitive is so high on getting to him that any kind of play action fake no matter how badly he does it works for him by simply holding the rush for a split second, just a moment of confusion translates into time, he's lethal with that extra time.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Hard to argue with that. But how much of #4 was a result of not having anyone who was a real home run threat at running back?

Agreed.

Unless your an awesome playfake QB (a la Boomer Esiason) the strength of your playaction will equate to the strength of you running attack.

 

[D-Dogg]

I think it's so hard to defend Warner's passing and the imperitive is so high on getting to him that any kind of play action fake no matter how badly he does it works for him by simply holding the rush for a split second, just a moment of confusion translates into time, he's lethal with that extra time.

yep, I agree.

He doesn't have to be good at it to be effective. All he needs is a hair's breadth of time to pick someone apart.

 

[Duckjake]

yep, I agree.

He doesn't have to be good at it to be effective. All he needs is a hair's breadth of time to pick someone apart.

Just think how good he'd be if the play action gave him as much time and clear passing lanes as it did Collins at times last night. And the Cards ran play-action more than just a few times each game.

There were plays were the Pitt defenders had actually turned away from Collins and were headed back to the los after the RB.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Hard to argue with that. But how much of #4 was a result of not having anyone who was a real home run threat at running back?

Hard to say. We haven't had one (homerun RB) in at least a decade at least. Might be the same scenario with the screen pass. We are rarely successful there too. You could easily point to the common denominator as the RB, but the Line is just as, if not more important. He haven't had a good line since the 70's really, with a small surge in Plummer era.

 

[joeshmo]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I seem to recall the announcers during one of our recent preseason games throw out Kurt's QB rating on play action passes last year; it was freaking off the charts.

Does anybody remember exactly what they said?

Yep, he was ranked 3rd in playaction passer rating and ranked 1 when blitzed rating. His rating when you blitz him was actually something like 20 points hire then when you didnt blitz him. Its why I always laugh when oppsing teams fans say the way to beat Kurt is to blitz him.

 

[Lorenzo]

yes the titans have a homerun back and protect well(eventhough it's hard for the best line to protect against PIT). but PA does not work unless you have a strong committment to running the ball. you don't need a homerun threat either. Tenn runs the ball regardless of the situation. They run even when someone shuts them down and do not abandon ship. Teams know this, therefore their PA game is effective. When teams get one dimensional(like dallas did often last year...also the cards as well) defenses will just pin their ears back and rush the passer....and PA is not even a factor.

 

[Cards232]

Warner is definetely not the best at selling the play action, but it must be good enough. His qb rating out of play action was 135. That's the one thing I could never understand about Haley was his reluctance to use play action more, especially in the red zone. I suspect Whis may use it a lot more this year, especially w/ the seeming progress of our running game.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Warner is definetely not the best at selling the play action, but it must be good enough. His qb rating out of play action was 135. That's the one thing I could never understand about Haley was his reluctance to use play action more, especially in the red zone. I suspect Whis may use it a lot more this year, especially w/ the seeming progress of our running game.

It's a lot harder IMO to run the play action in the red zone. The zone is smaller and you need less defenders to defend the zone. Like 5-10 yards in, very difficult. If you still have 20 yards to work with, its much easier.

 

[Duckjake]

Warner is definetely not the best at selling the play action, but it must be good enough. His qb rating out of play action was 135. That's the one thing I could never understand about Haley was his reluctance to use play action more, especially in the red zone. I suspect Whis may use it a lot more this year, especially w/ the seeming progress of our running game.

Well looking at the numbers, the one game the article listed Warner was 4-4 in playaction situations, the Cards run it so seldom that teams probably bite on it more often.

But having a homerun threat really slows down the defense. We saw it first hand here in Austin with Major Applewhite/Chris Simms and Vince Young. Texas could not figure out how to pick up the blitz. Opponents knew it and brought the house every down. Major and Chris got hammered because of it.

However, once the Texas staff freed up VY to run, Texas killed the blitz. If the D missed; Young went 80 for a TD. It wasn't long before teams stopped blitzing every down and seldom blitzed at all.

Think how much more effective the draw is going to be in slowing down the pass rush if Beanie is in the backfield. You rush too hard and BW will burn you for 30. Where as in the past if you rushed too hard Edge or Marcel would only burn you for 7.

 

[conraddobler]

Well looking at the numbers, the one game the article listed Warner was 4-4 in playaction situations, the Cards run it so seldom that teams probably bite on it more often.

But having a homerun threat really slows down the defense. We saw it first hand here in Austin with Major Applewhite/Chris Simms and Vince Young. Texas could not figure out how to pick up the blitz. Opponents knew it and brought the house every down. Major and Chris got hammered because of it.

However, once the Texas staff freed up VY to run, Texas killed the blitz. If the D missed; Young went 80 for a TD. It wasn't long before teams stopped blitzing every down and seldom blitzed at all.

Think how much more effective the draw is going to be in slowing down the pass rush if Beanie is in the backfield. You rush too hard and BW will burn you for 30. Where as in the past if you rushed too hard Edge or Marcel would only burn you for 7.

BW is going to be so valuable on delayed draws too.

A lot of teams know Warner is a blitz eating machine so instead of blitzing they do line stunts, but line stunts usually result in a gaping hole to run through.

We have used them and get killed using them because our backs aren't burners, BW is enough of one to really run that, plus he's a natural runner, ie he just knows where the hole is and how to get there.

You can't teach that easily and there's no way to teach speed.

I expect if you see them run that dreaded delayed draw with BW it should work a ton better.

 

[Duckjake]

BW is going to be so valuable on delayed draws too.

A lot of teams know Warner is a blitz eating machine so instead of blitzing they do line stunts, but line stunts usually result in a gaping hole to run through.

We have used them and get killed using them because our backs aren't burners, BW is enough of one to really run that, plus he's a natural runner, ie he just knows where the hole is and how to get there.

You can't teach that easily and there's no way to teach speed.

I expect if you see them run that dreaded delayed draw with BW it should work a ton better.

Excellent point.

One question though, Warner has been a blitz eating machine, so what was Green Bay doing with Woodson that was so effective? Not having Boldin and Breaston running the hot routes maybe? Just pre season so not wanting to display our blitz pickup schemes?

Denver seemed to do a real good job of bringing pressure from the outside as well.

 

[Cardiac]

Excellent point.

One question though, Warner has been a blitz eating machine, so what was Green Bay doing with Woodson that was so effective? Not having Boldin and Breaston running the hot routes maybe? Just pre season so not wanting to display our blitz pickup schemes?

Denver seemed to do a real good job of bringing pressure from the outside as well.

That's the silver lining from the last two games of the preseason. Teams exposed a weakness in our protection before the games count. I'll betcha Whiz and Grimm have already gotten that shored up.

 

[conraddobler]

Excellent point.

One question though, Warner has been a blitz eating machine, so what was Green Bay doing with Woodson that was so effective? Not having Boldin and Breaston running the hot routes maybe? Just pre season so not wanting to display our blitz pickup schemes?

Denver seemed to do a real good job of bringing pressure from the outside as well.

I think you're on the right track with not wanting to show much of anything.

My main problem with us in pre-season was our lethargy, but maybe that just comes from a coach who really dosen't want to show anything and that filters down to lethargy by the players.

Whiz is really from that school that you don't show anything in preseason, Marty S with the Cheifs used to stink up pre-season, never matterd

You have to think that the first two games we looked good then it was just like ok that's enough pre-season and it went out like a light.

Don't know personally we'll see but I'd be shocked to see major protection problems given the time we've had our team together as a unit, the line and Warner and the WR's that is.