Players want Jim Harbaugh gone?!?

Russ Smith

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I doubt it's all of them but I can believe Crabtree does and I wouldn't be surprised if CK does too. Even though Harbaugh made him the QB, it's apparent that when he screws up and goes over to the sideline he's not interested in listening to his coach.

Winning fixes lots of things, if they go on a win streak now much of this will blow over.
 

Iceman

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Yep. If they would have lost last night, there would have been some serious talk about Harbaugh and his future. Unfortunately the Eagles decided to gift wrap them the win..
 

Chopper0080

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Player and the GM...this is a case where the grass isn't always greener.

I agree Harbaugh's antics can be child like, but he is a pretty smart guy with a history of success. I hope he goes to the Raiders, and raises that ship in San Fran's backyard.
 

kerouac9

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I doubt it's all of them but I can believe Crabtree does and I wouldn't be surprised if CK does too. Even though Harbaugh made him the QB, it's apparent that when he screws up and goes over to the sideline he's not interested in listening to his coach.

Winning fixes lots of things, if they go on a win streak now much of this will blow over.

This. You've been to the NFC Championship game three years running and to the Super Bowl once. Who are you going to get that's better than the guy you have?

As a Cardinals fan, I'd love to see Harbaugh fired, but gimme a break.
 

Chopper0080

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This. You've been to the NFC Championship game three years running and to the Super Bowl once. Who are you going to get that's better than the guy you have?

As a Cardinals fan, I'd love to see Harbaugh fired, but gimme a break.

The real issue is Harbaugh's issues with the GM. That is why he will be gone after this season, not because of the players. It is the Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells coaching theory that the coach wants to pick his players, while the GM wants to be the guy.
 

Russ Smith

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This. You've been to the NFC Championship game three years running and to the Super Bowl once. Who are you going to get that's better than the guy you have?

As a Cardinals fan, I'd love to see Harbaugh fired, but gimme a break.

Yeah I've been saying for years he's a great coach. I think he's tough on his players he's likely NOT fun to play for, but when you win that much I think as players you should realize he's got something to do with it.

I don't see where Crabtree can complain, he barely played last year, he can't stay healthy, when he does play he's the #1WR.

If you're Kaepernick they have a great OL, a great RB, they drafted another good RB, they signed Johnson at WR, they drafted another TE last year. Yes he doesn't have an elite game breaker WR but he's got enough weapons to throw to. The problem is that CK isn't making plays in the pocket, he'll run for first downs, he'll make the play out of nothing that like that great throwback to Gore yesterday, but when the protection is there and he has to step up and get the ball downfield, he's not doing it. He's hitting the underneath guys and missing the down the field plays. I've read that he thinks Harbaugh is too hard and stresses the players out, the easy way to fix that is stop playing with your head in your posterior, figure out how much time is on the playclock, understand that calling a TO when you're going to take a delay of game penalty is dumb. If you don't want the coach to stress out, don't do stuff like that.
 

Iceman

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Yeah I've been saying for years he's a great coach. I think he's tough on his players he's likely NOT fun to play for, but when you win that much I think as players you should realize he's got something to do with it.

I don't see where Crabtree can complain, he barely played last year, he can't stay healthy, when he does play he's the #1WR.

If you're Kaepernick they have a great OL, a great RB, they drafted another good RB, they signed Johnson at WR, they drafted another TE last year. Yes he doesn't have an elite game breaker WR but he's got enough weapons to throw to. The problem is that CK isn't making plays in the pocket, he'll run for first downs, he'll make the play out of nothing that like that great throwback to Gore yesterday, but when the protection is there and he has to step up and get the ball downfield, he's not doing it. He's hitting the underneath guys and missing the down the field plays. I've read that he thinks Harbaugh is too hard and stresses the players out, the easy way to fix that is stop playing with your head in your posterior, figure out how much time is on the playclock, understand that calling a TO when you're going to take a delay of game penalty is dumb. If you don't want the coach to stress out, don't do stuff like that.

Great points. I read somewhere on here that CK scored a crazy high number on the QB written test or something like that. Looking at CK, he sure doesn't look like he would a smart dude
 

Russ Smith

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The real issue is Harbaugh's issues with the GM. That is why he will be gone after this season, not because of the players. It is the Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells coaching theory that the coach wants to pick his players, while the GM wants to be the guy.

I'm sure there's friction but the claim is the players are getting tired of his coaching style and that just seems hard to believe. I can see it if they think he's the reason they haven't gotten over the hump and won a Superbowl, but if they think that they are wrong.

I think he made a very clear decision we're not going to win a Super Bowl with Alex Smith at QB, and he made it and turned the team over to Kaepernick. He's certainly made lots of great plays, many that Alex couldn't make, but in the end he's not made enough.

Part of the problem has been injury and part of the problem has been a total lack of character among a few guys on the team, seems to me that's on the GM who drafted those guys more than it is on Harbaugh. I'm sure he has input but I doubt he decided to take Aldon Smith, Ray McDonald etc all on his own.
 

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Why do we have so many threads about harbaugh and his status with players on a cardinals board?
 

Russ Smith

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Great points. I read somewhere on here that CK scored a crazy high number on the QB written test or something like that. Looking at CK, he sure doesn't look like he would a smart dude

He may be extremely book smart, he doesn't play football smart.

I made the comment in the pre season when someone asked for surprise teams I said I'm picking SF as a negative surprise because they went out and got more weapons to throw the ball and that means Harbaugh is going to tempted to USE those guys. That's why the announcers keep pointing out they're not running the ball enough, he figures I got these guys for a reason, why get them and just run the ball. That puts the onus on CK to make plays and he's turning it over too much and not hitting the downfield stuff.

he's not playing poorly, passer rating just over 90, but they need him to be better.

Yahoo has an article today that says they need him to be more consistent and less erratic, 100% agree.

He can't be a great potential guy anymore, they need him to make the next step.
 

MrYeahBut

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Keep him, fire him.. no matter to me. Whatever makes them worse.
 

Russ Smith

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Interesting comment from Kaepernick. Harbaugh took the blame for the TO said it was poor coaching on his part. CK was asked about it, he not only didn't take the blame off his coach, he said we try to draw them offsides, if it doesn't work, we call timeout. So he STILL thinks that was the right decision.
 

Reddog

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Would love to hear Boldin's opinion. We know he has a history of not getting along with certain types of coaches. If he doesn't have a problem with him then this will remain a GM/Coach issue and he will probably be gone next year.
 

Iceman

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Would love to hear Boldin's opinion. We know he has a history of not getting along with certain types of coaches. If he doesn't have a problem with him then this will remain a GM/Coach issue and he will probably be gone next year.

For sure. So glad we kept Fitz and didn't give in to Boldin and his baby ways. I don't miss him at all with our current WR's
 

Chopper0080

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Interesting comment from Kaepernick. Harbaugh took the blame for the TO said it was poor coaching on his part. CK was asked about it, he not only didn't take the blame off his coach, he said we try to draw them offsides, if it doesn't work, we call timeout. So he STILL thinks that was the right decision.

Some guys forget what it is like to be bad, especially young players. Harbaugh wears down players because he is always grinding to get better. Younger players like Kaepernick and Crabtree can get jaded because they don't understand the constant grind of the NFL.

What I find is interesting is that people want the 49ers to be bad team. I don't. I want the 49ers to be good to push us to be better. The moment our division goes back to the NFC Worst is the moment we don't have to be as agressive to compete.
 

splitsecond

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Gotta feel for Crabtree.... He's been getting hammered by his coaches since college starting with The Pirate. I wonder if he ever had to spend any time in Uncle Leach's Woodshed


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Darkside

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Interesting comment from Kaepernick. Harbaugh took the blame for the TO said it was poor coaching on his part. CK was asked about it, he not only didn't take the blame off his coach, he said we try to draw them offsides, if it doesn't work, we call timeout. So he STILL thinks that was the right decision.

I really don't understand why he's so confused. A TO doesn't make sense on any level in that situation with that field position. The delay of game penalty actually HELPS them because it gives the punter a little bit more space and allows the gunners to get downfield. Taking a TO is a total waste and almost ensures a touch back and you're only picking up 10-15 yards in field position, on a punt. His ignorance about it baffles my mind, I'm not being facetious, it really does.

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Vermont Maverick

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Unfortunately the Eagles decided to gift wrap them the win..

I don't think we were watching the same game. The Eagles were thoroughly dominated, gained 200 yards in total offense, and 0 offensive points. It was the 49ers who attempted to gift wrap the game by allowing 3 touchdowns on returns.

I'm no 49er fan, but that's the way it happened.
 

kerouac9

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Yeah I've been saying for years he's a great coach. I think he's tough on his players he's likely NOT fun to play for, but when you win that much I think as players you should realize he's got something to do with it.

I don't see where Crabtree can complain, he barely played last year, he can't stay healthy, when he does play he's the #1WR.

If you're Kaepernick they have a great OL, a great RB, they drafted another good RB, they signed Johnson at WR, they drafted another TE last year. Yes he doesn't have an elite game breaker WR but he's got enough weapons to throw to. The problem is that CK isn't making plays in the pocket, he'll run for first downs, he'll make the play out of nothing that like that great throwback to Gore yesterday, but when the protection is there and he has to step up and get the ball downfield, he's not doing it. He's hitting the underneath guys and missing the down the field plays. I've read that he thinks Harbaugh is too hard and stresses the players out, the easy way to fix that is stop playing with your head in your posterior, figure out how much time is on the playclock, understand that calling a TO when you're going to take a delay of game penalty is dumb. If you don't want the coach to stress out, don't do stuff like that.

Kaepernick does have a game-breaking receiving target--his name is Vernon Davis, and he's a remarkable two-way player. Kaep's deep-passing stats when Davis is/not available is actually pretty staggering. I think that Barnwell or someone did a write-up on it for Grantland the week of the Cards-49ers game.

The thing with Kaepernick is--and this is what I was thinking watching the game yesterday--he doesn't have any rhythm as a passer. It takes him forever to get rid of the football. Sometimes you'll see guys hang around and wait for a play to develop, but with Kaep it seems like he's not diagnosing a play or looking for a target until he's at the top of his drop.

IMO, the 49ers have one of the best WR corps in the NFL for the next two years. Crabtree, Boldin, and Stevie Johnson are all B+ players or better.

Some guys forget what it is like to be bad, especially young players. Harbaugh wears down players because he is always grinding to get better. Younger players like Kaepernick and Crabtree can get jaded because they don't understand the constant grind of the NFL.

What I find is interesting is that people want the 49ers to be bad team. I don't. I want the 49ers to be good to push us to be better. The moment our division goes back to the NFC Worst is the moment we don't have to be as agressive to compete.

Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure that there's any evidence that playing in a tough division makes you more likely to win the Super Bowl. Seattle, sure, but that may be recency bias. The AFC North wasn't all that nasty two years ago when Baltimore won.
 

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Deon is saying his source ISN'T Crabtree, and by his quote, it sounds like plural.

From PFT
“My sources wears uniforms, suits and ties,” Sanders said of this latest imbroglio.

Maybe he's lying, maybe not. But he is indicating plural every step of the way, and what seems to be both players and either staff/organizational people. Maybe if there was one plural word, but all of them?

We've heard rumors last year about Harbaugh, and I've never seen a 1-2 team be so out of sorts (what they were when these rumors came out). This isn't out of the blue. We've heard some grumblings a couple of times before this. But man I would think it would have take longer then this for it to start up again.

They kept their stars so nothing seems to have dramatically changed with the team's talent, yet the team looks to have been waiting to turn on him. If anything certain areas are stronger. It's almost unheard of. I sure don't remember any 1-2 team that has lots of talent and recent success to have rumors like this. Maybe if they were approaching a 6-10 season or something, but 1-2? If true, there would have to be a ton of bad blood in the locker room for it to surface this early imo.

Harbaugh may or may not be a great coach. He's had a lot of talent, and that can make any coach look better then what they are. The 49ers also have Roman, Fangio, and Baalke as GM there. So we don't really know who are the most important people in creating the Niners success. They have all of these guys who seem good.

Arians looks better and wins more when Keim keeps finding guys off the street that can contribute. With good signings like Cromartie or last year with Dansby. It probably takes a good combo of both to have sustained success in the NFL, so I'm glad we have both, and both seem to work well with each other. Doesn't hurt to have Bowles either. Arians and the rest then takes those guys and gets them on the right page and ready to play. At least that seems to be how it is working here, and I for one hope this sort of relationship and performance last.

Thus when I see Harbuagh has what seems like quality people around him, and has good talent to work with, he should be getting to championship games. I don't know how to properly divvy up the accolades, but a legitimate case can be made that some of these other people may have had a bigger hand in the Niners success then Harbaugh. Hell perhaps they would of won championships with a different coach, though we'll never know that.

Technically it could go either way, perhaps Harbuagh is the man and these other guys are riding his coattails. But my sense is, while not being completely the other way, it tends to skew more towards these other guys being more responsible along with the players playing to that level to reach those places. Also alot should be said that while Kaep has his drawbacks, he also makes plays that no one called in. Harbaugh and everyone else has benefited from that.

Harbaugh doesn't suck, he seems to be above average or better in all the areas that don't correspond with the interpersonal relationships and communication that transpires within a team given all the actions they engage in running the Niners. Perhaps no one else could of protected Kaep early on by running what seemed to be very reminiscent of how Harbaugh was used in Chicagoland.

Chuck Daly was the coach of the dream team, does anyone here really think they wouldn't of steamrolled opponents if they had a coach named Daly Chuck? Now that is an extreme case, but it helps make the point that good talent can win.

I can't remember who was involved, but there was a segment on TV in the last couple of days and they mentioned that Harbaugh seems to be a short term coach wherever he goes. They were implying that he wears on everyone where he is after about three years. It's not like he left Stanford because they were losing.

Here's his coaching career from wiki
WKU (NCAA FCS) (1994–2001) (unpaid asst.)
Oakland Raiders (2002–2003) (QB)
San Diego (NCAA FCS) (2004–2006)
Stanford (NCAA FBS) (2007–2010)
San Francisco 49ers (2011–present)

His personality does not seem like it is one of a good long term coach, at least in the NFL of the last couple of decades and going forward. He rubs everyone the wrong way. He acts like a psycho as we see during the games, and it's very possible that how he acts like a brat on the sidelines might be his personality within the locker room and other places we can't see. On the sideline he looks like a petulant six year old. He seems super emotional and intense. Hell he even made a commercial that one where he screams 'I-formation', 'I-formation' which kind of played off that crazy intensity and huge personality.

If he really is like that often, that elevates tensions and creates a situation where every little thing is bigger then it should be and can snowball easier. It seems like he is a real Richardhead. Such a situation would be mentally exhausting. This sort of attitude doesn't aid coaching a team whatsoever. If the coach is mentally exhausting the players, that doesn't help make a team better it can push things the other way.

Also on that segment where they said he was a short term coach, they said Michigan would rather have his brother. I also heard that Michigan still remembers when Harbaugh poked fun at them while he was a coach at Stanford.

Maybe this whole situation is overblown, but there seems to be alot of smoke. Sure winning can help, but if these reports are true, for whatever reason, he's so bad, winning almost doesn't cure it. Because at the slightest hint of not winning, i.e. starting a season 1-2, we have this.

Oh also we should remember that some of the players, some of the good veteran players, remember their previous head case, dropping trau, coach. They've seen it before, and some of them may be finding parallels with how Harbaugh is acting.

Also that timeout fiasco, it's the coach's job to make sure the players know what the coaches want in that scenario. Perhaps Kaepernick is confused with the same type of situation where you aren't in that punter grey area. But it's the job of the coach to make sure to tell them that, as it was a deliberate action, not some off the cuff thing. If Kaep doesn't know, it's because Harbaugh (and/or other coaches) didn't coach him like he/they should have.

Obviously none of us have concrete answers on any of this, we just get bits and pieces of information, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
 
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If the players don't want him, then he must be doing something right. Team Prima Donna.
 

Russ Smith

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I really don't understand why he's so confused. A TO doesn't make sense on any level in that situation with that field position. The delay of game penalty actually HELPS them because it gives the punter a little bit more space and allows the gunners to get downfield. Taking a TO is a total waste and almost ensures a touch back and you're only picking up 10-15 yards in field position, on a punt. His ignorance about it baffles my mind, I'm not being facetious, it really does.

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Apparently their standard MO is try and draw the defense off, if it doesn't work call TO to avoid the penalty. And apparently it just didn't dawn on him that isn't ALWAYS true, that in certain cases it makes perfect sense to take the penalty for the very reason you said.
 
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