Players Win Championships, So trying to be Objective ....

[Vacard]

You ever heard of Fred Warner & Bobby Wagner?

Do you just only watch the Cardinals?

All I asked is to name names not a passive-aggressive condescending response.

 

[cardsfanmd]

We have the best quarterback in the division. That means we always have a shot.

 

[Stout]

We have the best quarterback in the division. That means we always have a shot.

Unless his elbow screws him, the best QB in the division is Stafford until KM steps up and shows otherwise. Talent means nothing without follow through.

 

[Garthshort]

Stafford is on the downside of his career, and has a 'bad' elbow. Not a good combination. He's still pretty good, but I'll go with the up and coming guy, and that's KM. Stafford has to fight the SB letdown, as well. When it comes to teams, the Rams defense makes them the better team this year.

 

[Stout]

Stafford is on the downside of his career, and has a 'bad' elbow. Not a good combination. He's still pretty good, but I'll go with the up and coming guy, and that's KM. Stafford has to fight the SB letdown, as well. When it comes to teams, the Rams defense makes them the better team this year.

You're not wrong on Stafford. He's proven he can win, though, in the biggest game. KM can't even clinch a playoff spot. Yet. A hopeful word, yet, but also a damning one in this case.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t put the guys you listed as “top” players. In the division, possibly. In the entire nfl?

Budda Baker - DONT THINK HE’S AT LEVEL OTHER GUYS LISTED ARE, BUT HE’S CLOSEST
Jalen Thompson - LOVE HIM, BUT NOT SURE HE’S THAT LEVEL . . . YET
Justin Pugh - NO
Rodney Hudson - NO LONGER
Kelvin Beachum - NEVER WAS

I thought we were discussing best in the division. If we are talking all-NFL...yes, very different story.

 

[Chopper0080]

Stafford is on the downside of his career, and has a 'bad' elbow. Not a good combination. He's still pretty good, but I'll go with the up and coming guy, and that's KM. Stafford has to fight the SB letdown, as well. When it comes to teams, the Rams defense makes them the better team this year.

Best in the division is right now and that is Stafford. You are the best until someone shows they are better. Potential is something unrealized and not guaranteed to ever be reached.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I thought we were discussing best in the division. If we are talking all-NFL...yes, very different story.

You’re right, we are. I get caught up in the degrees. For instance all the other guys are such a higher level, that naming beachum becomes one of those “one of these things is not like other” scenarios.

 

[cardpa]

He's also 4 years older than Hopkins. But more importantly, Hopkins is a 3 time, 1st team All-Pro, that is rare company. Hopkins would have to drop off pretty sharply to not make the Hall, but he will be viewed with a harsher eye coming off this suspension. He needs just a couple more good, not great seasons and I think Hopkins is a lock.

I wouldn't have such a strong opinion on this if I hadn't talked over HOF credentials surrounding different positions with some friends a few months back. The Hall is not as easy to get into as I used to believe and there are guys with better careers than Green that not only didn't make it, but didn't even get serious consideration.

To make the HOF you need to have some monster individual statistical seasons, or been consistently very good over a long career, or have been a part of some huge, memorable moments... along with also being pretty dang good outside of that.

Someone like say... Fitz, checks every single one of those boxes. Hopkins checks the the first and he might check the second if he keeps it up and, hopefully he will check the 3rd in the next few years.

Poor Green checks none. He had a good start to his career but went off a cliff just before hitting 30.

Regardless of age difference, if you look at their stats, their numbers are almost identical at this point in every category. Hopkins has more receptions but Green has a higher YPR.

Pro Football Reference has a HOF monitor stat. Here are both players current rankings. Right now neither would sniff the HOF according to the numbers. At Greene's age he is never going to see a bust in Canton. What Hopkins does in the next 4 years will determine his HOF worthiness and he has a ways to go.

A.J. Greene
PFR HOF Monitor: 48.44 (74th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)

DeAndre Hopkins
PFR HOF Monitor: 52.56 (64th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)

 

[Phrazbit]

Regardless of age difference, if you look at their stats, their numbers are almost identical at this point in every category. Hopkins has more receptions but Green has a higher YPR.

Pro Football Reference has a HOF monitor stat. Here are both players current rankings. Right now neither would sniff the HOF according to the numbers. At Greene's age he is never going to see a bust in Canton. What Hopkins does in the next 4 years will determine his HOF worthiness and he has a ways to go.

A.J. Greene
PFR HOF Monitor: 48.44 (74th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)

DeAndre Hopkins
PFR HOF Monitor: 52.56 (64th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)

I actually looked at those figures when typing my previous post, and I agree, Hopkins has work to do still, but not much. He is just a few notches below a bunch of guys in the hall. If he can scrap together a few more 1000 yard seasons, I think he is a virtual lock.

Those 3 All-Pro teams help his case a lot.

While Green has lot more work to do, has very little in the way of accolades is older and is already in obvious decline.

One more note though, that "Average HOF" number for receivers really gets kinda broken by Rice. Rice's HOF monitor number is three times the "average" hall of famer, more than double the #2 guy all time and there are only about a dozen guys who qualify above that "average". Freaking crazy how good he was. They almost need to revise that average number to "Average of all the guys who are not Jerry Rice"... it would probably drop down to the mid 80s.