Playoffs 2010: Western Conf Finals, Game 5 – Suns At Lakers Game Thread

[Covert Rain]

Sure he occassionaly over-dribbles. There hasn't been a game since Nash moved to the point position that he hasn't over-dribbled on occasion. You don't become one of the best ever at keeping the dribble alive without occasionally over-dribbling. It's like saying we need oxygen to breathe, we get it. The problem occurs when Amare starts standing around leaving Nash with fewer options thereby creating excessive over-dribbling.

When Steve dribbles, his intent it to cause the defense to collapse and kick the ball out to cutters or 3 points shooters. When Steve is attempting to do that...that is not over dribbling. There were several occasions where Steve and others kept dribbling the ball around the perimeter versus trying to get any penetration in the lane. When your getting trapped that is when you pass the ball around. Notice how the Suns did that in the 2nd half. In the first half they didn't. That is over-dribbling. Doug Collins pointed it out right away in the first half and I agree.

You don't think 6 more possessions would have mattered in a 2 point game? And it's not all stats. Once Amare stops being aggressive on offense it bleeds over into all aspects of his game.
Steve

Way to cherry pick. You don't think we could have used 15 more possessions versus turnovers? You don't think we could have used 10 to 15 points from our bench in the first half? You don't think we could have used those 4 or 5 really bad possessions caused by Dragic and Barbosa back?

Please. Basketball is team sport. No one player causes a loss in the game. It's an accumulation of bad things that happen throughout the game. The team lost this game not Amare. You guys need to give it a rest.

 

[AzStevenCal]

When Steve dribbles, his intent it to cause the defense to collapse and kick the ball out to cutters or 3 points shooters. When Steve is attempting to do that...that is not over dribbling. There were several occasions where Steve and others kept dribbling the ball around the perimeter versus trying to get any penetration in the lane. That is over-dribbling. Doug Collins pointed it out right away in the first half and I agree.

You and Cly win. It was Nash's fault we lost this game. Nash over-dribbles because it's fun and not because Amare stands around with his thumb up his butt.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

You and Cly win. It was Nash's fault we lost this game. Nash over-dribbles because it's fun and not because Amare stands around with his thumb up his butt.

Steve

You win for cherry picking. I didn't blame it all on Nash if you re-read my post.

THIS

WAS

A

TEAM

LOSS.

Also, forgive me if I agree with a coach in Doug Collins who knows more about basketball then anybody here.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

What a heartbreaker... but wounds need to heal quickly, because we got game 6 at our house on Saturday.

Go Suns! Force a game 7! Despite the loss, you proved you could hang with the Lakers in LA!

 

[cly2tw]

When Steve dribbles, his intent it to cause the defense to collapse and kick the ball out to cutters or 3 points shooters. When Steve is attempting to do that...that is not over dribbling. There were several occasions where Steve and others kept dribbling the ball around the perimeter versus trying to get any penetration in the lane. When your getting trapped that is when you pass the ball around. Notice how the Suns did that in the 2nd half. In the first half they didn't. That is over-dribbling. Doug Collins pointed it out right away in the first half and I agree.





Way to cherry pick. You don't think we could have used 15 more possessions versus turnovers? You don't think we could have used 10 to 15 points from our bench in the first half? You don't think we could have used those 4 or 5 really bad possessions caused by Dragic and Barbosa back?

Please. Basketball is team sport. No one player causes a loss in the game. It's an accumulation of bad things that happen throughout the game. The team lost this game not Amare. You guys need to give it a rest.

Many fans ain't able to see the details of the game, but have their focus all on the stats. Find a scapegoat on the stats sheet. Everything seems fine for them.

We have the same observation for the game. But, in hindsight, it's probably just some bad combination. I thought Gentry wanted to establish Nash as a scorer, which was an idea I also proposed. Yet, Nash is not as good of a catch-and-shooter than he is a pull-up one, which kinda required more dribble than otherwise (Gentry-era proportion of dribble for Nash). In this game, Nash didn't seem to have enough legs at the start. He had to will some of the 18-footers in, and completely botched on a wide open 3pt on Dudley(?) feed. This is kind like the situation when we posted Amare 3 consequetive times against TD and failed and lost the game. It was a game plan but the result was not positive. This happens. From a great general like Nash, I just wished he could pull himself and the team out of it by switching to something else, though not sure something else would have worked better. He got the 2nd wind in the 4th q and was huge later.

 

[cly2tw]

You win for cherry picking. I didn't blame it all on Nash if you re-read my post.

THIS

WAS

A

TEAM

LOSS.

Also, forgive me if I agree with a coach in Doug Collins who knows more about basketball then anybody here.

AZsteven and elindolm seem to have an issue with anybody who wouldn't wholeheartedly blame this on Amare. That was Amare whose lack of effort spoiled a great performance by Nash. Doug Collins finally came out of the closet as the Nash hater.

 

[hsandhu]

Don't quote me on this, as I haven't been following Euro basketball as closely as I used to, but I believe Dragic bumped Vujacich from the National team, which is a HUGE deal in Europe, as in the highest honor one can receive.

Do you speak slovenian, what are the comments on this youtube saying, who do slovenians favor? It seems they hate sasha to, I don't think
"vujacic je pussica" is a good thing.

This clip contains barkley talking about dragic going over to his house and beating his ass.

 

[CardLogic]

Please. Basketball is team sport. No one player causes a loss in the game. It's an accumulation of bad things that happen throughout the game. The team lost this game not Amare. You guys need to give it a rest.

The team lost this game, but "superstar" play from Amare might have won it.

Amare is a great player, but his inconsistent effort is exasperating.

 

[Covert Rain]

The team lost this game, but "superstar" play from Amare might have won it.

Amare is a great player, but his inconsistent effort is exasperating.

So might have having 15 less turnovers...so might have having a contribution by our bench in the 1st half.

 

[nashman]

Well the bench came to life in the second half and brought us back into the game what did Amare do? 4 rebounds is NOT OK from your supposed superstar! Amare is a freakin headcase that can't bring it consistantly.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well the bench came to life in the second half and brought us back into the game what did Amare do? 4 rebounds is NOT OK from your supposed superstar! Amare is a freakin headcase that can't bring it consistantly.

So what happened to the bench the 1st half? You call that consistent? The only thing the Suns did was consistent was turn the ball over 15 times. If Amare had 10 rebounds at half and none in the 2nd...you would be saying the same thing. Then could I say...well at least he brought it in the 1st half?

This team has issues with being consistent in more facets of the game then Amare's rebounding. Again, I am not denying Amare's lack of contribution on the boards....I am just saying it's more then that.

 

[SirStefan32]

Do you speak slovenian, what are the comments on this youtube saying, who do slovenians favor? It seems they hate sasha to, I don't think
"vujacic je pussica" is a good thing.

This clip contains barkley talking about dragic going over to his house and beating his ass.

Not fluently. Unlike Croatian, Serbian, and Bosnian, which are just about the same, Slovenian is quite a bit different. From what I could decipher, Juri Zdovc, a Slovenian basketball legend sent Vujacic home from the national team in favor of Dragic, but mostly because he was a real douche.
Sounds like Slovenians don't want him on the National Team at all.

Someone said Dragic told Vijacic to blow him, and Vujacic mentioned something about boning Goran's mom from behind before Dragic went after him. Not sure how anyone actually heard what was said, but it sounds like something Eastern Europeans would say.

Having a flashback of Popovich unleashing ethnic slurs on Rudy Tomjanovich in Serbian few years ago.

 

[SirStefan32]

I did some more digging on Vujacic-Dragic thing, and it appears that Coach Zdovc (again, he is considered to be a Slovenian basketball legend) REALLY hates Vujacich, and there are rumors that Zdovc, Dragic, Udrih, and others made fun of Vujacich for this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5XroW3nGXQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[jibikao]

Not fluently. Unlike Croatian, Serbian, and Bosnian, which are just about the same, Slovenian is quite a bit different. From what I could decipher, Juri Zdovc, a Slovenian basketball legend sent Vujacic home from the national team in favor of Dragic, but mostly because he was a real douche.
Sounds like Slovenians don't want him on the National Team at all.

Someone said Dragic told Vijacic to blow him, and Vujacic mentioned something about boning Goran's mom from behind before Dragic went after him. Not sure how anyone actually heard what was said, but it sounds like something Eastern Europeans would say.

Having a flashback of Popovich unleashing ethnic slurs on Rudy Tomjanovich in Serbian few years ago.

By the way, Phil Jackson is known for playing "mind games". I remember in one of the playoff series, he told Fox (Rick Fox?) to nonstop trash talking with Pippen to get him annoyed and he did exactly like that.

I wonder if Dragic and Vijacic incident was part of the mind game that Phil wanted Vijacic to do? Or am I thinking too much? I mean Vijacic didn't play that much until game 5 so him trash talking Dragic all of sudden seems a bit too "coincidental". Agr.. I think I am thinking too much. lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

I had seen alot more wrong with this game the Amare's lack of rebounding. There was no movement of the basketball. Nash despite scoring over dribbled on several occasions. We needed to move the ball more. Our bench didn't make an appearance until the 2nd half. Dragic made some horrible decisions. Gentry called a stupid play at the end of the 4th setting up Frye for a 3 pointer instead of JRich or Nash. Gentry then again had one of our softest interior players Frye in at the end. We had some stupid turn overs down the stretch.........AGAIN.

If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game.

are you SERIOUS? If Amare had 6 more rebounds, the Lakers don't get a RIDICULOUS 19 offensive rebounds which is the only reason they were beating us because they were struggling with their shooting at 41%.

Dumbest post of the day. 6 rebounds in a game where we're outrebounded by 9 would have been HUGE.

And it wasn't just that. He looked hesitant out there on offense and checked out most of the game to me.

But you've got one thing right cly... Amare is like Karl Malone in one respect. When the pressure's on... he's not. But at least Malone still played D and rebounded like a mother no matter what was going on with his O.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So might have having 15 less turnovers...so might have having a contribution by our bench in the 1st half.

you're insane expecting another 54 point game from our bench on the road! It's not insane to expect our "superstar" to be like one... or at least play AVERAGE in the biggest game of the season.

 

[hsandhu]

you're insane expecting another 54 point game from our bench on the road! It's not insane to expect our "superstar" to be like one... or at least play AVERAGE in the biggest game of the season.

If you're saying amare is the only reason we lost that's not true.

The entire offense in the first half was terrible, just dribbling for 20 seconds.

Only 2 points from the bench in the first half.

And the thing no one is mentioning. 20-29 from free throws. Nash missed 2, barbosa missed a technical in the 4th, richardson missed 2.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you're saying amare is the only reason we lost that's not true.

The entire offense in the first half was terrible, just dribbling for 20 seconds.

Only 2 points from the bench in the first half.

And the thing no one is mentioning. 20-29 from free throws. Nash missed 2, barbosa missed a technical in the 4th, richardson missed 2.

I'm not saying he's the only reason but I sure as hell am saying he's the BIGGEST reason we lost. HUGE games on the road in the playoffs must be won by your superstars. Nash did his part... Amare didn't. He shows up and we win the game in my opinion.

 

[jibikao]

And the thing no one is mentioning. 20-29 from free throws. Nash missed 2, barbosa missed a technical in the 4th, richardson missed 2.

I was thinking about this last night as well... if Nash made all of them. 20-29. If we make 75%, 22/29, the game could have been tied.

Oh well.. all this would have, could have, should have is driving me crazy. Just regroup and beat Lakers convincingly to force game 7.

 

[nashman]

Cheese for once we totally agree Amare shriveled up! If Amare plays like the superstar "HE" thinks he is then we win this game. He was a no show for most of the game. Give me a break Daren about the bench, those guys AREN'T supposed to stuff the stats thats why their bench players geesh. You expect the bench to play like superstars but don't expect the self proclaimed superstar to show up? Ridiculous....everytime we lose it comes down to effort for the most part and in this game Amare was one of the worst EFFORTS to step on the floor from either team!

 

[az1965]

We had too many unforced turnovers and Amare had the most (4).

We also dribbled around too much and had absolutely nothing going in the first half (minus the first 5-6 minutes). There was no smoothness to the game. We were not moving the ball and were trying too much one on one.

Rebounding was again an issue. They were aggressive, we were not. Both our bigs (Amare, Lopez) had total 6 rebounds between them!!

Lopez was terrible in every facet of the game.

Too many missed free throws and that too from the better FT shooters.

We can go on and on... We just need quickly forget about it and focus on game 6. That's the only thing everyone must be focused on.

 

[joshstmarie]

Arguing with derren is a gigantic waste of time, youre just giving him an excuse to type out more ridiculously long paragraphs that say the same thing as the last 5 posts.

 

[Bert]

I woke up this morning, the birds were chirping, the sun was shining, it was going to be a beautiful day. I reached my arms above my head to stretch and suddenly......

I remembered what happened last night.

#$%^ The same explicative keeps running through my head.

I'm still going to try to have a good day but man, that was not a good memory to have first thing in the morning.

 

[jagu]

I'm not saying he's the only reason but I sure as hell am saying he's the BIGGEST reason we lost. HUGE games on the road in the playoffs must be won by your superstars. Nash did his part... Amare didn't. He shows up and we win the game in my opinion.

Totally agree. You can sit there and blame the other guys for their miscues but there is a reason why they are the "other" guys and not the guys that get paid to perform like Amare. I really thought going into last night Amare was going to have a huge game. Talk about disappearing. Nash did all he can and pretty much kept us alive in that game. Amare had to step up and get some big rebounds and play good d all night. We could have won that game if he showed up no question.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I woke up this morning, the birds were chirping, the sun was shining, it was going to be a beautiful day. I reached my arms above my head to stretch and suddenly......

I remembered what happened last night.

#$%^ The same explicative keeps running through my head.

I'm still going to try to have a good day but man, that was not a good memory to have first thing in the morning.

lol. Same thing here brother.

It's funny, last night I think it had been so long since I was really kicked hard in the nuts that I took the numbness afterward for being able to deal with it... but this morning... the pain set in.

WHY THE %$# IS PHOENIX CURSED TO SUFFER MORE CRUSHING LOSSES THAN ANY OTHER CITY IN THE COUNTRY!?!?!?!?!