Playoffs: Suns @ Nuggets Tuesday game thread 5-9-2023 - Game 5

[Covert Rain]

Also possibly they new the new CBA would cause a problem to resign Cam Johnson, so he was expiring and we were going to lose him anyway.

Agreed. Dario wasn't in the regular rotation and the Suns were going to have to commit long term to Cam J being your PF if you paid him market which is likely going to be around 90 Million. The Suns were about to face an incredibly touch situation with Cam J.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns could have easily manipulated their salary to keep Cam Johnson unless you are guaranteeing the salary of a player like Durant who makes $47,649,433 next season.

For example, Shamet could have easily been moved with a draft pick. The same with Paul.

 

[Phrazbit]

Also possibly they new the new CBA would cause a problem to resign Cam Johnson, so he was expiring and we were going to lose him anyway.

Nonsense. There is absolutely nothing that would have prevented us from signing Cam. With Durant's contract we're already above those thresholds.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns could have easily manipulated their salary to keep Cam Johnson unless you are guaranteeing the salary of a player like Durant who makes $47,649,433 next season.

For example, Shamet could have easily been moved with a draft pick. The same with Paul.

You say easily but that is pure speculation. I think it would have just as likely been a scenario where you can't move either, keep Bridges, resign Cam and now there is only a difference of 5 million in salary verse Durant, no shot at a title and be just as screwed with the apron. If you could move Shame then you should have been able to move him now. Same with Paul.

 

[Mainstreet]

You say easily but that is pure speculation. I think it would have just as likely been a scenario where you can't move either, keep Bridges, resign Cam and now there is only a difference of 5 million in salary verse Durant, no shot at a title and be just as screwed with the apron. If you could move Shame then you should have been able to move him now. Same with Paul.

You are forgetting all those unprotected draft picks the Suns traded away, not to mention the players.

The Suns could have easily used protected draft picks to move any contracts they didn't want to keep and probably get a player they wanted in return.

 

[Covert Rain]

You are forgetting all those unprotected draft picks the Suns traded away, not to mention the players.

The Suns could have easily used protected draft picks to move any contracts they didn't want to keep and probably get a player they wanted in return.

How am I forgetting that? Again, pure speculation as we have no idea how far other teams were willing to go.

 

[Hoop Head]

Also possibly they new the new CBA would cause a problem to resign Cam Johnson, so he was expiring and we were going to lose him anyway.

That doesn't make sense, at all. The Suns have a higher salary now than before. Claiming the new CBA would have prevented them from resigning Cam J doesn't hold up.

As far as claiming Dario is old, hes 29 and doesn't turn 30 until next year. He's not old in NBA years or actual standards.

 

[Mainstreet]

How am I forgetting that? Again, pure speculation as we have no idea how far other teams were willing to go.

Look at what the Lakers did with so few assets.

 

[Covert Rain]

That doesn't make sense, at all. The Suns have a higher salary now than before. Claiming the new CBA would have prevented them from resigning Cam J doesn't hold up.

As far as claiming Dario is old, hes 29 and doesn't turn 30 until next year. He's not old in NBA years or actual standards.

You are right the new CBA or the old one wouldn't prevent them but had they resigned Cam J they would have been over the $21 million dollar apron. There for limiting them anyway per the new CBA.

 

[Hoop Head]

How am I forgetting that? Again, pure speculation as we have no idea how far other teams were willing to go.

Just like how you speculated this team couldn't win a title without making the KD trade?

 

[Covert Rain]

Look at what the Lakers did with so few assets.

It helps that they already had LeBron and AD already on their roster. That's not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Hoop Head]

You are right the new CBA or the old one wouldn't prevent them but had they resigned Cam J they would have been over the $21 million dollar apron. There for limiting them anyway per the new CBA.

With far fewer holes to fill. Now they have more holes, no draft picks to add cheap young talent, less depth, and need to rely on more players that can contribute signing for the league minimum.

 

[Covert Rain]

Just like how you speculated this team couldn't win a title without making the KD trade?

We didn't get it done 2 years running. That's history. At least with the KD trade or another star trade, it's perfectly reasonable to think we have a shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

It helps that they already had LeBron and AD already on their roster. That's not even remotely the same thing.

I'm talking about what the Lakers did near the trade deadline.

 

[Mainstreet]

We didn't get it done 2 years running. That's history. At least with the KD trade or another star trade, it's perfectly reasonable to think we have a shot.

Look where the Nuggets are keeping their core three players together.

Remember the chant... Suns in four.

 

[Covert Rain]

With far fewer holes to fill. Now they have more holes, no draft picks to add cheap young talent, less depth, and need to rely on more players that can contribute signing for the league minimum.

So basically hope that the team that couldn't get done, who will now be over the apron somehow gets lucky to find guys to fill those holes? That wasn't going to happen. The apron is designed to force teams to shed salary and stick with one or two large max contracts.

 

[Hoop Head]

We didn't get it done 2 years running. That's history. At least with the KD trade or another star trade, it's perfectly reasonable to think we have a shot.

KD is 34 now. He's not getting better. Meanwhile Bridges and Cam are both in their mid 20's and haven't hit their prime yet. They've improved each season. So the window would be open much longer as we hadn't even seen that team peak.

 

[Mainstreet]

So basically hope that the team that couldn't get done, who will now be over the apron somehow gets lucky to find guys to fill those holes? That wasn't going to happen. The apron is designed to force teams to shed salary and stick with one or two large max contracts.

The tax apron was made for teams like the Suns to wheel and deal. And they had the assets to do it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Look where the Nuggets are keeping their core three players together.

Remember the chant... Suns in four.

Denver had a better cap situation and no dead money. They were in a slightly better position to revamp their surrounding players.

 

[Covert Rain]

The tax apron was made for teams like the Suns to wheel and deal. And they had the assets to do it.

You would have had to move 52 million in salary (fixed below). There goes your idea of keeping the team together.

 

[Covert Rain]

KD is 34 now. He's not getting better. Meanwhile Bridges and Cam are both in their mid 20's and haven't hit their prime yet. They've improved each season. So the window would be open much longer as we hadn't even seen that team peak.

Cam J was never going to be the answer at PF and Bridges was never going to that player here. It took Bridges being on a really bad team to be that player and they still got nowhere in the playoffs. I think the Suns would have been competitive for sure. It's not like I don't' love Bridges and/or Cam J. I love both of those players.

 

[Hoop Head]

You would have had to move 52 million in salary. There goes your idea of keeping the team together.

$52 million? What are you even talking about at this point? They had space under the apron, they had picks, more depth, and desirable assets to trade. I genuinely have no clue what you're talking about now, $52 million?

Also the Suns don't have dead money and they didn't before the trade unless you want to say Crowder was. He was an easily movable expiring contract that James Jones held onto for far too long and whiffed entirely on getting a return for him.

 

[Covert Rain]

$52 million? What are you even talking about at this point? They had space under the apron, they had picks, more depth, and desirable assets to trade. I genuinely have no clue what you're talking about now, $52 million?

Also the Suns don't have dead money and they didn't before the trade unless you want to say Crowder was. He was an easily movable expiring contract that James Jones held onto for far too long and whiffed entirely on getting a return for him.

I misunderstood your post about the apron (at 21 million) in your previous post. My bad.

I just looked it up. The first apron is set at $7 million above the luxury-tax level in each season of the CBA (so $169 million for 2023-24), and the second apron is set at $17.5 million above the tax threshold (or $179.5 million). Suns projected cap for 2024 is $207 Million.

So sorry, they would have to shed $28 million to get under the apron next year. If you resign Cam J, at what the rumors are our cap hit would only be about 5 million less and we would have to shed 22 million. That's easier said than done. You would likely have to throw in some of our assets to unload that money to boot.

 

[Hoop Head]

I thought you said the apron was set at 21 million in your previous post. I was going on that.

I just looked it up. The first apron is set at $7 million above the luxury-tax level in each season of the CBA (so $169 million for 2023-24), and the second apron is set at $17.5 million above the tax threshold (or $179.5 million). Suns projected cap for 2024 is $207 Million.

So sorry, they would have to shed $28 million to get under the apron today. If you resign Cam J, at what the rumors are our cap hit would only be about 5 million less and we would have to shed 22 million. That's easier said than done. You would likely have to throw in some of our assets to unload that money to boot.

Why would they need to do that? That's what I'm not getting. I'm not following your logic, at all. They're over it now and need to shed that money but you're saying if they didn't make that trade they'd have to shed that money too for some reason? They'd have less holes to fill though so why would they need to worry as much about hitting the apron. Now they're at the apron and need a 5th starter and an entire bench as well as a replacement for CP3. Before they'd need a replacement for CP3 and some depth, which could be done much easier with draft picks or minimum deals.

 

[Mainstreet]

You would have had to move 52 million in salary. There goes your idea of keeping the team together.

I'm not sure where you are going.

Prior to the Durant trade, the Suns had all their draft picks, reasonable contracts and expiring contracts for maximum flexibility going forward.