Please let shipp score

[wierwolf]

JJ started to pick up some good chuncks there late in the game... Granted it was against the pine riders.... But he showsed some talent there today!!

 

[Pariah]

K9 is right, Shipp can't find the endzone for some reason. t's like his kryptonite.

Also, even casual observers with no interest in the Cardinals called Arrington a puss for lying down before contact. I hadn't said a word and just took a quiet mental note that maybe it's not just Cardinals fans trying to read too much into his play; he really does shy from contact.

 

[Russ Smith]

K9 is right, Shipp can't find the endzone for some reason. t's like his kryptonite.

Also, even casual observers with no interest in the Cardinals called Arrington a puss for lying down before contact. I hadn't said a word and just took a quiet mental note that maybe it's not just Cardinals fans trying to read too much into his play; he really does shy from contact.

It's something that he's no doubt hearing about from coaches and teammates so hopefully it's something he'll get over next year. He wasn't that way in college, but the NFL is a whole different animal. I really wonder if part of this is the fumble he had against Washington? Seems like since then his toughness has been questioned more, I wonder if he thought uh oh I fumbled, I better worry about protecting the ball, to the point where he's going down instead of fighting for yardage?

I do think part of it was the shell shock at the beginning of the year, speed of the game, and a HORRIBLE OL at that point led to him constantly getting hit right after he took the handoff, I think mentally that is something he was finally getting past right through to the SF game, and then Washington happened and he had the fumble and the 4th down lay down and that's all he's been hearing since then.

I like the kid but you can't survive in the NFL if you shy away from contact, he's got to get past that.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not going to come in here and say "I told you so." The facts are what they are, and there's no point rubbing it in. I just hope we can put all the animosity behind us and agree that Marcel Shipp and his $1.425 million salary and $1.779 million cap charge are better off somewhere else next season. Can't the "Marcel Shipp is our power back" madness end now?

Jonathan Wells is a better option for less money. Get on the bandwagon.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I'm not going to come in here and say "I told you so." The facts are what they are, and there's no point rubbing it in. I just hope we can put all the animosity behind us and agree that Marcel Shipp and his $1.425 million salary and $1.779 million cap charge are better off somewhere else next season. Can't the "Marcel Shipp is our power back" madness end now?

Jonathan Wells is a better option for less money. Get on the bandwagon.

Love Shipps heart and work ethic, but we're going to be better off with a star at RB.

With certain postions firming up a bit (like TE, and C), maybe we ought to try to get a top notch RB in FA?

 

[conraddobler]

I'm not going to come in here and say "I told you so." The facts are what they are, and there's no point rubbing it in. I just hope we can put all the animosity behind us and agree that Marcel Shipp and his $1.425 million salary and $1.779 million cap charge are better off somewhere else next season. Can't the "Marcel Shipp is our power back" madness end now?

Jonathan Wells is a better option for less money. Get on the bandwagon.

I'm a better powerback option than Shipp just for the $ alone, I'll take league minimum to get stuffed for no gain all day long and as a bonus I'll bring donuts to the meetings.

 

[wierwolf]

Love Shipps heart and work ethic, but we're going to be better off with a star at RB.

With certain postions firming up a bit (like TE, and C), maybe we ought to try to get a top notch RB in FA?

Totally agree... It would be great to go after a top notch RB via FA or trade....

 

[arthurracoon]

*sigh*

 

[kerouac9]

With certain postions firming up a bit (like TE, and C), maybe we ought to try to get a top notch RB in FA?

I don't know. FA runningbacks are a really, really risky proposition. Really risky. Every big name out there is going to have a lot of miles on their tires, and I wouldn't hand any of them a $15 mil. signing bonus. I'd be more tempted to pick up a real power back like Wells in free agency for relative peanuts and keep rolling the dice with mid-round picks in the draft.

Free agent money would be better served getting mid-tier guys to fill in at the starting LG and backup G positions. I don't want Steve Hutchinson (because I don't think he'll be available and I don't think he's worth the money), but I think we need to get Reggie Wells involved as a swing T and out of the starting lineup.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know. FA runningbacks are a really, really risky proposition. Really risky. Every big name out there is going to have a lot of miles on their tires, and I wouldn't hand any of them a $15 mil. signing bonus. I'd be more tempted to pick up a real power back like Wells in free agency for relative peanuts and keep rolling the dice with mid-round picks in the draft.

.

I'm sure you're not just judging wells by how he looked against us but why him?

3.1 YPC for his career (374 carries). Career best is 3.6. the last 2 years, behind the same line that Davis did better running behind. He's not just a short yardage guy so his YPC number is not because of that.

What am I missing, I never liked him much in college either.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I don't know. FA runningbacks are a really, really risky proposition. Really risky. Every big name out there is going to have a lot of miles on their tires, and I wouldn't hand any of them a $15 mil. signing bonus. I'd be more tempted to pick up a real power back like Wells in free agency for relative peanuts and keep rolling the dice with mid-round picks in the draft.

Free agent money would be better served getting mid-tier guys to fill in at the starting LG and backup G positions. I don't want Steve Hutchinson (because I don't think he'll be available and I don't think he's worth the money), but I think we need to get Reggie Wells involved as a swing T and out of the starting lineup.

S. Alexander instantly gives us a power/home run threat.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Shipp's play in 2005 is indefensible. For all the crap Arrington deservedly gets from Cardinals fans, Shipp is a significantly worse RB and probably should not have been on the field at all once we were eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm sure you're not just judging wells by how he looked against us but why him?

3.1 YPC for his career (374 carries). Career best is 3.6. the last 2 years, behind the same line that Davis did better running behind. He's not just a short yardage guy so his YPC number is not because of that.

What am I missing, I never liked him much in college either.

He was an enigma at OSU.He had all the talent in the world but never put it together until his senior.And that was after he almost lost his starting job.I wouldn't want him to be our main RB threat for next year.Ricky Williams had another nice day though.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was an enigma at OSU.He had all the talent in the world but never put it together until his senior.And that was after he almost lost his starting job.I wouldn't want him to be our main RB threat for next year.Ricky Williams had another nice day though.

Speaking of Ohio State, is the Parade All American RB Wells they have coming in next year related to houston's Wells?

I just read parade and noticed the kid in there, very similar size, 6'2" 230.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm sure you're not just judging wells by how he looked against us but why him?

3.1 YPC for his career (374 carries). Career best is 3.6. the last 2 years, behind the same line that Davis did better running behind. He's not just a short yardage guy so his YPC number is not because of that.

What am I missing, I never liked him much in college either.

I've liked Wells for a long time. Davis has a very different game than Wells. Wells is much more of a straight-ahead runner, and Davis has had success because he's been able to find the cutback lanes that Houston's O-line creates. Wells is, as I've said before, a good version of Marcel Shipp. Kind of a do-it-all guy who can get you the tough yards, but you don't want him as your #1, but he can fill in for stretches, but he's not a Greg Jones/Brandon Jacobs type.

I don't think that this team is in the market for an every-down running back. I think that Denny's going to platoon Arrington for another season, but we need someone that's not an embarassment to the entire league like Shipp behind him. I think that Wells can be that guy for 2/3 of the price. He's been really classy about how he handled his demotion and everything in Houston, as well.

I don't really understand why people are so hot-to-trot about getting a high-profile runningback in free agency. Those big signings fail a lot more often than they work out. There's a reason that Seattle may let Shaun Alexander walk. There's a reason that Indy's going to let Edge leave. Do we really want to find out that reason a $12 million bonus later? Didn't a lot of you learn your lesson after jocking Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent at any cost two years ago?

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't really understand why people are so hot-to-trot about getting a high-profile runningback in free agency. Those big signings fail a lot more often than they work out. There's a reason that Seattle may let Shaun Alexander walk. There's a reason that Indy's going to let Edge leave. Do we really want to find out that reason a $12 million bonus later? Didn't a lot of you learn your lesson after jocking Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent at any cost two years ago?

Oh I agree there free agent RB's are a gamble, mileage on those tires is usually the reason why they're a FA.

I keep saying I'd like to take a flyer on say Michael Turner of the Chargers, or of course draft Lendale White. If White is really in the draft, and a 15-20 type of player it'd be interesting to see if we could move down if there's not a guy Green loves, pick up an extra 2 or 3, and take White. Typically it doesn't work out that way nobody wants to give you enough to come up, and we need impact players, but I really think as bad as our run game is a kid like White would make a huge impact.

I haven't given up on Arrington by any means, I just really like lendale White and I'm really concerned we're going to reach for a DT like Wright or Ngata and wind up with a kid that takes too many plays off.

I haven't seen a lot of Wells I just remember him in college as being disappointing as CBus said.

Morency looks pretty good today for Houston, I think their OL is a bit underrated I think they're a pretty decent run blocking group, that's not good pass blocking and Carr holding the ball just really exaggerates that sack number.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh I agree there free agent RB's are a gamble, mileage on those tires is usually the reason why they're a FA.

I keep saying I'd like to take a flyer on say Michael Turner of the Chargers, or of course draft Lendale White. If White is really in the draft, and a 15-20 type of player it'd be interesting to see if we could move down if there's not a guy Green loves, pick up an extra 2 or 3, and take White. Typically it doesn't work out that way nobody wants to give you enough to come up, and we need impact players, but I really think as bad as our run game is a kid like White would make a huge impact.

I haven't given up on Arrington by any means, I just really like lendale White and I'm really concerned we're going to reach for a DT like Wright or Ngata and wind up with a kid that takes too many plays off.

I haven't seen a lot of Wells I just remember him in college as being disappointing as CBus said.

Morency looks pretty good today for Houston, I think their OL is a bit underrated I think they're a pretty decent run blocking group, that's not good pass blocking and Carr holding the ball just really exaggerates that sack number.

Turner is another guy that I'd like (Harry was all about Michael Turner two drafts ago--he was really disappointed that we passed on him). I don't know what his RFA number is going to be--or if he even qualifies for RFA this season, but I think you're going to get a solid contributor in Wells at very little cost.

I like White, but only in the 20-25 range (the "Stephen Jackson Zone"). That's great value and great price. Otherwise, I think that a guy like T.J. Duckett might be a free agent after this season, who may be ideal if you could get him out of Atlanta.

Morencey looks good in Houston because he's the same kind of cutback runner that Davis is. Good backup for him. Wells just isn't that kind of player.

For what it's worth, I don't see Denny drafting OL or DL in the first round, regardless of who's there. He'd probably take a quarterback first. 2-gap DTs can be found on the second day of the draft, in rounds 3-5. Don't waste a first-rounder on a guy who's only going to see 60% of the defensive snaps at the most.

 

[wierwolf]

I would take Turner over Wells and/or Morency. I think he would produce more simply because he was learning behind one of the best RB's in the game in LT....

 

[john h]

JJ is on the sidelines. Green is still pissed about the Washington game apparently.

Shipp could've scored on the 2nd down run, IMO. But, he turned his back to spin and he was done. Had he lowered his head and gone forward he could've stuck the ball across.

I wanted them to take four cracks at running it in if necessary. I didn't like the 3rd down pass.

There are not to many 219 lb power runners around.

 

[john h]

Russ, I am falling off the JJ bandwagon fast. He caught a quick pass out of the backfield on 3rd and 8 and took, what appeared to me, another dive. Just kinda lowered his shoulder and fell down...samething happened on a run off left tackle.

Kid seems to be playing scared. Gives zero second effort at all.

I also noted that dive. Looked just like the last one where he did not make a needed yard. I simply do not understand that. The only think he avoided by the dive was a hit. I do not think a change in the OL is going to make this guy an every down player in the NFL.

 

[john h]

Didn't see or hear the game, I assume this was the 3rd and 10 where he got 5 because the other catch he had he was facemasked according to NFL.com.

Had a better game today average wise than the last 3 games at least.

Sounds like after a nice start Shipp kind of fizzled out too, had 39 yards in the first quarter and only 18 the rest of the way plus the redzone failures again.

The one thing on the catches by JJ, I said this when we drafted him and will say it again, JJ is NOT a great receiver out of the backfield, he doesn't catch the ball over his shoulder all that great he prefers to turn and catch the ball face on and then turn upfield. That's a lot harder to do in the NFL and I think it's got a lot to do with his 5.7 YPC number. It's something he really has to improve on, it's why he came out on 3rd downs for Lynch his senior year at Cal, they knew Lynch was a much better receiver.

Lotta work to do for JJ this offseason, hopefully the OL will get better I really think with a good offseason and some actual holes, he'll be a different player next year. But I still wouldn't pass on White or DeAngelo if we get a shot.

As the announcers noted JJ is not a very good blocker either. He is not big enough for one thing to pick up the blitzers.

 

[Russ Smith]

As the announcers noted JJ is not a very good blocker either. He is not big enough for one thing to pick up the blitzers.

john correct me if I'm jumping to conclusions, but are you not a fan of JJ's?

 

[john h]

I'm not going to come in here and say "I told you so." The facts are what they are, and there's no point rubbing it in. I just hope we can put all the animosity behind us and agree that Marcel Shipp and his $1.425 million salary and $1.779 million cap charge are better off somewhere else next season. Can't the "Marcel Shipp is our power back" madness end now?

Jonathan Wells is a better option for less money. Get on the bandwagon.

I never did consider him a power back. Yes we need to bring in a couple of backs next year and one of them needs to be big enough to be a power back.

 

[john h]

Totally agree... It would be great to go after a top notch RB via FA or trade....

With the worst running game in the NFL it is a no brainer we need a top notch RB from either draft,FA,or trade. I will take him where I can get him.

 

[Zeno]

As the announcers noted JJ is not a very good blocker either. He is not big enough for one thing to pick up the blitzers.

That is absolute BS. Its more technique than size, Dunn can pick up blitzes and he is smaller than JJ.

Its something that he will have to learn but his size does not prevent him from ever being able to do it.