Poll:Dansby or Boldin

[Cbus cardsfan]

Ideally we would keep both but, if you had to choose one to keep, who would you rather have,Dansby or Boldin? I expect Boldin to be the choice but,to me, it's not even an argument. I would much rather keep Dansby. He's the best defensive at ,arguably, the Cards weakest position. We have Breaston,Doucet, and a very deep WR corp that Boldin is #2 on yet i read where people are happy that Dansby's money next year can be used for Boldin.

 

[joeshmo]

Dansby for the same reason as you, one is a position of weakness where as one is not, without their respective players.

Also next year is Boldins last year so I can see why some would say use the money on Boldin, becuase with one year left that is the opportune time to re-do his contract. So in that regard I can see where they are coming from.

 

[TigToad]

Neither has shown me a strong desire to be a Cardinal long term. I really like both players and I love the way Boldin plays. But, Boldin has been burning his bridges a bit more, too.

I'd be thrilled to resign either, but I won't shed too many tears over either's departure. I believe if they go, the money would get used to bring/re-sign more people. I abstain for now, but reserve the right to vote later.

 

[TJ]

Neither has shown me a strong desire to be a Cardinal long term. I really like both players and I love the way Boldin plays. But, Boldin has been burning his bridges a bit more, too.

I'd be thrilled to resign either, but I won't shed too many tears over either's departure. I believe if they go, the money would get used to bring/re-sign more people. I abstain for now, but reserve the right to vote later.

Well said. I opened this thread and quickly closed it earlier. I love both as players but I cannot condone their attitudes towards these deals. We offered both fair-market contracts (hell, we were going to overpay Dansby but that wasn't good enough for him) and neither would take the offer. My hope is that our FO improves next season with the eventual departure of Graves so our negotiating power improves as well as our abilities to bring in high end free agents.

 

[TigToad]

Graves get a lot of hate on here and I'm not sure most of it is deserved.

He got Fitz's deal redone, and that was a nearly impossible situation for the Cardinals. You can blame him for his initial contract, but his initial contract was a coup for the Cardinals either way... they got the 3rd pick in the draft signed for a reasonable deal, as long as he didn't hit a stupid amount of escalators.. and the fact he did.. win Cardinals. Plus, Graves got him on an extention that prevented those 2 super silly years from happening. Now, did we give him a HUGE pay day? Yes, but this is the guy who is on the Madden cover and is one of the very best players in the NFL.

He resigned Dockett and Boldin to deals, that aparently, are so good for the Cardinals, both players are upset about it now. He hasn't caved into demands that are 2 and 3 years out before a contract renewal.

He resigned Wilson quickly and to a fair deal for both parties. He kept the longest tenured, pro-bowl quality Cardinal on the roster even when the team didn't have talent.. now he's made a Cardinal for life of a man who will be in the ring of honor some day.

He let Leonard Davis and Pace go. I'm not saying both players wouldn't be a benefit to the Cardinals, but he saw the money they were going to get and was smart enough to get out of the way when the money they commanded was greater than the demand.

The only truly awful thing I saw Graves do in his time with us was the trade that gave away that pick that landed us Pace and Johnson in the first place. Even still, while Suggs would have been a studly pick, that mistake was a lot of years ago and under a coach and front office structure that is no longer with us.

I'm not saying Graves is the greatest GM of all times, but he has one thing no other GM in Cardinal history has had, permission to spend money as he needs to and structure deals in player friendly ways. Michael Bidwill and Rod Graves are not a bad front office pairing.

Off my horse.

Well said. I opened this thread and quickly closed it earlier. I love both as players but I cannot condone their attitudes towards these deals. We offered both fair-market contracts (hell, we were going to overpay Dansby but that wasn't good enough for him) and neither would take the offer. My hope is that our FO improves next season with the eventual departure of Graves so our negotiating power improves as well as our abilities to bring in high end free agents.

 

[vince56]

The Steelers lost Joey Porter after their last super bowl and went right back 3-4 years later. They never would've gone back had they lost Hines Ward.

Boldin's the man. Always has been, always will be.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Graves get a lot of hate on here and I'm not sure most of it is deserved.

He got Fitz's deal redone, and that was a nearly impossible situation for the Cardinals. You can blame him for his initial contract, but his initial contract was a coup for the Cardinals either way... they got the 3rd pick in the draft signed for a reasonable deal, as long as he didn't hit a stupid amount of escalators.. and the fact he did.. win Cardinals. Plus, Graves got him on an extention that prevented those 2 super silly years from happening. Now, did we give him a HUGE pay day? Yes, but this is the guy who is on the Madden cover and is one of the very best players in the NFL.

He resigned Dockett and Boldin to deals, that aparently, are so good for the Cardinals, both players are upset about it now. He hasn't caved into demands that are 2 and 3 years out before a contract renewal.

He resigned Wilson quickly and to a fair deal for both parties. He kept the longest tenured, pro-bowl quality Cardinal on the roster even when the team didn't have talent.. now he's made a Cardinal for life of a man who will be in the ring of honor some day.

He let Leonard Davis and Pace go. I'm not saying both players wouldn't be a benefit to the Cardinals, but he saw the money they were going to get and was smart enough to get out of the way when the money they commanded was greater than the demand.

The only truly awful thing I saw Graves do in his time with us was the trade that gave away that pick that landed us Pace and Johnson in the first place. Even still, while Suggs would have been a studly pick, that mistake was a lot of years ago and under a coach and front office structure that is no longer with us.

I'm not saying Graves is the greatest GM of all times, but he has one thing no other GM in Cardinal history has had, permission to spend money as he needs to and structure deals in player friendly ways. Michael Bidwill and Rod Graves are not a bad front office pairing.

Off my horse.

Sorry, but a good bit of the stuff your are considering factual there is just dead wrong.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Steelers lost Joey Porter after their last super bowl and went right back 3-4 years later. They never would've gone back had they lost Hines Ward.

Boldin's the man. Always has been, always will be.

Only because they had no one to replace Hines. Pittsburgh always has LB's to replace leaving players.

 

[187]

Dansby, because he is a key piece in our front 7. You don't need 3, 1000 yard receivers to pass the ball well. I wouldn't like to see Boldin go, but we would be fine with Fitz/Breaston/Doucet at receiver especially if Beanie can ignite a running game.

 

[lobo]

The Steelers lost Joey Porter after their last super bowl and went right back 3-4 years later. They never would've gone back had they lost Hines Ward.

Boldin's the man. Always has been, always will be.

I'm on board...I believe there are going to be some very good linebackers coming out of school next year and some solid f/a available...dansby is a very very solid lb, but can't afford to pay what he is looking for..he can of course still sign up with the team after the season...let's see...boldin is a super key part of of the offense...he certainly helped in a great way fitz put up the numbers he did.

 

[jefftheshark]

Sorry, but a good bit of the stuff your are considering factual there is just dead wrong.

Could you elaborate? I've never been a big Graves supporter, but other than the post looking more at the glass being half full, I don't see many ideas I'd disagree with.

JTS

 

[MadCardDisease]

Neither has shown me a strong desire to be a Cardinal long term. I really like both players and I love the way Boldin plays. But, Boldin has been burning his bridges a bit more, too.

I'd be thrilled to resign either, but I won't shed too many tears over either's departure. I believe if they go, the money would get used to bring/re-sign more people. I abstain for now, but reserve the right to vote later.

The NFL is a business. You can't forget that.

Both players would be very happy to stay as Cardinals if the price is right. Can't blame them for wanting to get what they feel they are worth. NFL careers are short. I think most players in their prime desire the biggest contract they can land.

With that said you can't pay everyone what they want in the salary cap era. I would retain Dansby out of need even though I'm a huge fan of Boldin's. With Boldin we have other players who could step in right away if he departs. That's not the same situation with Dansby.

 

[dogpoo32]

Boldin is still my favorite player, but from a strategic standpoint, I think Dansby is more important. If it was emotional, I'd pick Q.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Sorry, but a good bit of the stuff your are considering factual there is just dead wrong.

Could you elaborate? I've never been a big Graves supporter, but other than the post looking more at the glass being half full, I don't see many ideas I'd disagree with.

JTS

Sure thing.

1. There is just no way you can give Graves a speck of credit for the Fitz debacle. His first contract was pretty standard for his position in the draft, but there was no reason for the negotiations to hamstring the team for as long as they did. When the two sides first began negotiations, Fitz asked for EXACTLY what he ended up getting. If Graves was gonna completely cave, he didn't need to miss the first few waves of FA in order to do it. That right there cost us Faneca.

2. Graves didn't prevent the two high years from happening, he prevented 1 of them. Last I checked we still paid Fitz 14 mil last year.

3. How can we credit RG for standing strong against Q when the whole argument is based on the fact that Graves lied through his teeth when he told Q the team would offer him a new deal and then insulted the man with the proposition of a 1 mil bonus per season for the remainder of his current deal.

4. This one is almost laughable. How on earth can anyone like Graves' decision to release BIG????????? We cut our best lineman, thus forcing us into reaching to draft a replacement for him, subsequently passing on the best player in the NFL, only to get a guy who is more expensive and plays worse than Davis. Would you rather have Levi Brown or BIG and Peterson? Say what you will about Pace, but Graves is the moron who drafted him into the wrong system, so he should get nothing but blame for anything that happened with CP.

5. Finally, Graves gets way too much hate for trading away the pick and not selecting Suggs. that was one of his better moves IMO. T-Sizzle would have been a B-U-S-T here, there is no doubt in my mind. In Baltimore he did nothing but come in as a 3-4 OLB in obvious pass situations and rush the QB. We could have never afforded to do that with a 7th overall pick. Pace showed us what an out of position 3-4 OLB looks like in a 4-3 at DE. Suggs would have been getting destroyed against the run and the fans would have been suicidal. What more to people need to see to know that Suggs was not for us at the time?? Graves effed up the two picks he got in return, but that's another story altogether.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Sure thing.

1. There is just no way you can give Graves a speck of credit for the Fitz debacle. His first contract was pretty standard for his position in the draft, but there was no reason for the negotiations to hamstring the team for as long as they did. When the two sides first began negotiations, Fitz asked for EXACTLY what he ended up getting. If Graves was gonna completely cave, he didn't need to miss the first few waves of FA in order to do it. That right there cost us Faneca.

2. Graves didn't prevent the two high years from happening, he prevented 1 of them. Last I checked we still paid Fitz 14 mil last year.

3. How can we credit RG for standing strong against Q when the whole argument is based on the fact that Graves lied through his teeth when he told Q the team would offer him a new deal and then insulted the man with the proposition of a 1 mil bonus per season for the remainder of his current deal.

4. This one is almost laughable. How on earth can anyone like Graves' decision to release BIG????????? We cut our best lineman, thus forcing us into reaching to draft a replacement for him, subsequently passing on the best player in the NFL, only to get a guy who is more expensive and plays worse than Davis. Would you rather have Levi Brown or BIG and Peterson? Say what you will about Pace, but Graves is the moron who drafted him into the wrong system, so he should get nothing but blame for anything that happened with CP.

5. Finally, Graves gets way too much hate for trading away the pick and not selecting Suggs. that was one of his better moves IMO. T-Sizzle would have been a B-U-S-T here, there is no doubt in my mind. In Baltimore he did nothing but come in as a 3-4 OLB in obvious pass situations and rush the QB. We could have never afforded to do that with a 7th overall pick. Pace showed us what an out of position 3-4 OLB looks like in a 4-3 at DE. Suggs would have been getting destroyed against the run and the fans would have been suicidal. What more to people need to see to know that Suggs was not for us at the time?? Graves effed up the two picks he got in return, but that's another story altogether.

That pretty much sums up my positions on Graves as well. He gets kudos for signing Dockett early and drafting pretty well overall. (save the Levi/AP debacle)

 

[jefftheshark]

Sure thing.

1. There is just no way you can give Graves a speck of credit for the Fitz debacle. His first contract was pretty standard for his position in the draft, but there was no reason for the negotiations to hamstring the team for as long as they did. When the two sides first began negotiations, Fitz asked for EXACTLY what he ended up getting. If Graves was gonna completely cave, he didn't need to miss the first few waves of FA in order to do it. That right there cost us Faneca.

2. Graves didn't prevent the two high years from happening, he prevented 1 of them. Last I checked we still paid Fitz 14 mil last year.

3. How can we credit RG for standing strong against Q when the whole argument is based on the fact that Graves lied through his teeth when he told Q the team would offer him a new deal and then insulted the man with the proposition of a 1 mil bonus per season for the remainder of his current deal.

4. This one is almost laughable. How on earth can anyone like Graves' decision to release BIG????????? We cut our best lineman, thus forcing us into reaching to draft a replacement for him, subsequently passing on the best player in the NFL, only to get a guy who is more expensive and plays worse than Davis. Would you rather have Levi Brown or BIG and Peterson? Say what you will about Pace, but Graves is the moron who drafted him into the wrong system, so he should get nothing but blame for anything that happened with CP.

5. Finally, Graves gets way too much hate for trading away the pick and not selecting Suggs. that was one of his better moves IMO. T-Sizzle would have been a B-U-S-T here, there is no doubt in my mind. In Baltimore he did nothing but come in as a 3-4 OLB in obvious pass situations and rush the QB. We could have never afforded to do that with a 7th overall pick. Pace showed us what an out of position 3-4 OLB looks like in a 4-3 at DE. Suggs would have been getting destroyed against the run and the fans would have been suicidal. What more to people need to see to know that Suggs was not for us at the time?? Graves effed up the two picks he got in return, but that's another story altogether.

Good post and thoughts. Thanks, but.............

1) We miss out on the first wave of FA every year. At some point in time I think that we, as Card fans, need to come to the conclusion that we just aren't ever going to be the Redskins. We don't have that kind of owner, or philosophy. And it doesn't help that everytime we do go out and try to make a splash, it always turns around and bites us in the butt (see James, Edgerin for example). Faneca probably wasn't ever in the Cards anyway.

2) I highly doubt anyone in the league feels that we overpaid for Fitz.

3) I don't know about this one. None of us were in the room when these conversations occurred. We've heard a lot of "he said, she said" stuff with characters like Drew involved that makes it difficult to believe either side. But I have a hard time in disagreeing with TT's assertion that Graves made a good deal for the Cardinals when he re-did Q's contract.

4) I can say that. I was one of the happiest guys on the board when that unmotivated sad sack of a guard left the team, and I still am. This is one of the best moves Graves made, not his worst. (but I understand your side of the argument, I just wholeheartedly disagree).

5) I like this point. You could very well be correct in this.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

JTS

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Good post and thoughts. Thanks, but.............

1) We miss out on the first wave of FA every year. At some point in time I think that we, as Card fans, need to come to the conclusion that we just aren't ever going to be the Redskins. We don't have that kind of owner, or philosophy. And it doesn't help that everytime we do go out and try to make a splash, it always turns around and bites us in the butt (see James, Edgerin for example). Faneca probably wasn't ever in the Cards anyway.

Not exactly true. I think Edge didn't bite us in the butt. I think he did as much for us as we did for him. A wash. Berry was a splash too and I say that went pretty well for us.

2) I highly doubt anyone in the league feels that we overpaid for Fitz.

Even with the big chunk that we paid Fitz, the deal wouldn't have been as big if we had resigned him a year early before the escalators had a chance to kick in. I don't think he is overpaid per se. He would have just signed for a little more than the market rate, instead of the much bigger rate that he got.
3) I don't know about this one. None of us were in the room when these conversations occurred. We've heard a lot of "he said, she said" stuff with characters like Drew involved that makes it difficult to believe either side. But I have a hard time in disagreeing with TT's assertion that Graves made a good deal for the Cardinals when he re-did Q's contract.

Lots of speculation on this one. Hard to know what side is right.
4) I can say that. I was one of the happiest guys on the board when that unmotivated sad sack of a guard left the team, and I still am. This is one of the best moves Graves made, not his worst. (but I understand your side of the argument, I just wholeheartedly disagree).

Why wouldn't you want the team to at least explore trade options with Big if they weren't interested in his services to the team any longer. It was reported that every NFC East team was interested in signing him. Dallas signed him and he turned into a ProBowl player by moving back to his natural position. Because we let him go without any compensation, we had to reach for a tackle instead of drafting the best player available which according to Graves is his draft philosophy. I don't think anyone in the league, then or now, would say that Levi was the best player available at the time.

5) I like this point. You could very well be correct in this.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

JTS

See bold.

 

[lauraw]

I like Michael Bidwill; I think Graves moves too slow, but he does a decent job, and is careful as he has grown in the position. That's as positive as I can be about Graves...

 

[Black Jesus]

I can't believe how hard this board has turned on Boldin.

This should be a landslide pick for Boldin.

 

[Cody]

boldin.


doucet/breaston wouldn't be nearly as good without boldin

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I can't believe how hard this board has turned on Boldin.

This should be a landslide pick for Boldin.

I think people look at our WR's and see that even without Boldin, it might be our deepest position. I see people looking at our LB's and they see little depth at all.

If all things were created equal and both positions were equally as deep, then I would vote Boldin. Our LB's are so thin, especially in a 3-4 so I choose Dansby.

 

[TJ]

Denny Green deserves more respect for recruiting players than Graves. It wasn't until then when we were able to draft players like Dansby, Fitz, Dockett, Antonio Smith and Gabe Watson. Also, give him credit for recruiting B. Berry and Okeafor. When Denny came to town, we finally started building a formidable team and when Whis cam, he sealed the deal.

Speaking of Whis, it was not Graves' idea to hire him, but rather Michael B. Graves wanted Mike Sherman, the pear shaped loser.

Bottom line is that this franchise has hit the next level and we don't need a third-tier GM. We deserve someone who knows the game and can negotiate contracts quicker and not get bitten in the butt, for lack of a better term. The Warner saga is a prime example. We had the opportunity to sign him for much less during the season and Graves said "we don't do contracts in the middle of the season." Straw that broke the camel's back for me

 

[CardLogic]

Even with the big chunk that we paid Fitz, the deal wouldn't have been as big if we had resigned him a year early before the escalators had a chance to kick in. I don't think he is overpaid per se. He would have just signed for a little more than the market rate, instead of the much bigger rate that he got.

While what you have said is technically correct, wasn't this the offseason (between 2006 and 2007 seasons) that Boldin's contract was re-done? Coupled with having a new head coach on board, there was no way the Cardinals were going to re-do both starting WR's contracts in the same offseason.

 

[Captain Matt]

Boldin. Yes... the stats don't support us being any more successful when Boldin is healthy v/s Boldin injured, but the guy is still a freaking superstar. I was as annoyed as everyone else when he and Dockett were acting like complete spoiled babies this spring, but I still love the way they play.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Good post and thoughts. Thanks, but.............

1) We miss out on the first wave of FA every year. At some point in time I think that we, as Card fans, need to come to the conclusion that we just aren't ever going to be the Redskins. We don't have that kind of owner, or philosophy. And it doesn't help that everytime we do go out and try to make a splash, it always turns around and bites us in the butt (see James, Edgerin for example). Faneca probably wasn't ever in the Cards anyway.

2) I highly doubt anyone in the league feels that we overpaid for Fitz.

3) I don't know about this one. None of us were in the room when these conversations occurred. We've heard a lot of "he said, she said" stuff with characters like Drew involved that makes it difficult to believe either side. But I have a hard time in disagreeing with TT's assertion that Graves made a good deal for the Cardinals when he re-did Q's contract.

4) I can say that. I was one of the happiest guys on the board when that unmotivated sad sack of a guard left the team, and I still am. This is one of the best moves Graves made, not his worst. (but I understand your side of the argument, I just wholeheartedly disagree).

5) I like this point. You could very well be correct in this.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

JTS

1. I never said anything about wanting to make a splash in the first wave. The second and third waves however are where you find quality vets leaders and depth. Either which way, Eugene Parker embarrassed Graves. Also, James was the first back to go back-to-back 1000yd seasons for us in 20 years!!! The players loved him and he played his tail off for us. He also NEVER missed a game. James was worth every penny IMO.

2. I wasn't saying that we overpaid for Fitz at all. The OP said that Graves stealthly avoided the two big escalation years in Fitz's deal and I was just pointing out that he was wrong, because we only avoided one of them.

3. All I know is that Boldin has said repeatedly that Graves told him they would re-do his deal, while Graves has yet to refute Q's statement. I learned long ago not to stick up for people unwilling to stick up for themselves. The main point here though, was that TT was praising Graves for standing strong throughout the bickering of Q. The problem I have with this is simply that there wouldn't be a problem with Q if Graves hadn't lied and insulted the man to begin with. Boldin didn't get pissed until Graves offered him that half-assed raise, which wasn't much more than a slap to the face for Quan. Here's a man who has been the heart and soul of your team for 5 years and singlehandedly put asses in seats (benches) for a few seasons and you wanna treat him like an average Joe. We aren't in the '80's Ron and you can treat your players like that anymore, especially your stars.

4. Fair enough, glad we can agree to disagree.

Either which way, Graves is gone when his contract expires and I am willing to bet all of my A$FN bucks and maybe more on that with any any all takers.