OP
OP
Just heard Dan Bickley openly wonder out loud why Igor Kokoskov is not getting through to his players, especially Ayton.
Poll - Igor Kokoskov's Future With the Suns
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Proximo
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We have no way of knowing what is being said to Ayton.
For all we know Igor is yelling at him constantly to get physical and Ayton is just not listening.
But use some logic - What is more likely Igor is so incompetent he doesn't know to tell Ayton to be more aggressive on offense defense and blocking out, despite being an NBA assistant for 19 years, and practically every fan bemoaning Ayton's lack of aggressiveness, or Ayton is just not listening.
We are asking Ayton to change his play style he has always used, to a more aggressive style against NBA defenders.
It is far, far more likely Ayton is unwilling to change his play style for fear he will be on shaqtin a fool then it is to believe Igor is happy with it.
OP
OP
Well, at least in the observation of Dan Bickley, it is some combination of the accent/language barrier and passive/lackluster demeanor that is causing Kokoskov's message to be muddled at best and completely lost at worst.
Errntknght
Registered User
The cheapest move Sarver can make is to demote Igor and make someone else the interim HC. Wouldn't surprise me if it was not Prunty, the lead assistant. Would he go with James Jones?
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
yes, let's use some logic.
we can guess Igor is not "yelling at him constantly." Every time we see Igor on the sidelines he is cool, calm and collected. In interviews, he's soft spoken. meanwhile, Ayton seems to be aware of his problems and has been described as a willing pupil who is like a "sponge."
some of Ayton's court problems are by design -- Igor's, and other's are due to Ayton's inexperience and non aggressive demeanor. either way, Igor's being paid to teach and motivate the rookie, but instead of improving what Ayton came out of college with, he's regressing.
logically, it appears that Igor hasn't got anything productive for Ayton to soak up
(and JJ, Bridges, Okobo, and Melton)
and logically, if a team that had no where to go but up this year
is playing even worse
the coach has to take the responsibility
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Usually, a failed Head Coach would be named a Special Assistant to someone in the Front Office, rather than demoting him to a lesser court side position and remaining in the public eye.
It is more face-saving for everybody. And if Igor would be an Assistant Coach, would he take over if the interim Head Coach were ejected? Touchy situation.
That should be the decision of our General Manager. Oh wait, we don't really have a . . .
If this team is a lottery team fire him. Let the new coach pick the player he wants. Never a fan of a lame duck coach letting his guys do all the scouting, picking said player, installing his offense/defense then throwing the new coach to the wolves during the season.
Screw that. Either fire him at the halfway point THIS season and let someone take the interim coach with the intention of hiring a new guy at seasons end....or wait until the end of the season and do it.
Don't setup a scenario where you do it into the season as above.
Screw that. Either fire him at the halfway point THIS season and let someone take the interim coach with the intention of hiring a new guy at seasons end....or wait until the end of the season and do it.
Don't setup a scenario where you do it into the season as above.
Right, if you take the worst team in the NBA, add the #1 and #10 pick, sign a 15m FA, then make the team even worse, it's hard to argue that the coach is doing a good job.
The season is toast, it's time to start developing Ayton. Put him in the paint, instruct him to score everytime he touches the ball unless he is doubled. Tell him not to worry about fouls and block some shots.
If Ayton doesn't respond bring in Holmes who has certainly earned the playing time. Maybe watching Holmes play his minutes will motivate him.
The season is toast, it's time to start developing Ayton. Put him in the paint, instruct him to score everytime he touches the ball unless he is doubled. Tell him not to worry about fouls and block some shots.
If Ayton doesn't respond bring in Holmes who has certainly earned the playing time. Maybe watching Holmes play his minutes will motivate him.
OP
OP
Well, I called the record, even if Igor somehow survives this debacle...
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
D’Antoni may get fired soon...
elindholm
edited for content
LOL, talk about gallows humor.
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
Trade Igor for D'Antoni, straight up! LOL!
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
I’d take him back in a heartbeat.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
They’d make us take Carmelo in the process
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
Only if they take Anderson!
OP
OP
We don't have a Steve Nash or Chris Paul to bail him out. It would be like his tenures with the Knicks and Lakers all over again.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
That's an awful lot of manure exchanging hands there
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
Dirty Jobs!
Duane Rankin@DuaneRankin 1m1 minute ago
"If you feel good about losing games, then you’re in the wrong place, wrong spot, but it doesn’t really matter from the point of view that we focus on our job. It has to be done."
Igor Kokoskov trying to push #Suns past franchise-worst start (w/videos) https://bit.ly/2UrFGca
"If you feel good about losing games, then you’re in the wrong place, wrong spot, but it doesn’t really matter from the point of view that we focus on our job. It has to be done."
Igor Kokoskov trying to push #Suns past franchise-worst start (w/videos) https://bit.ly/2UrFGca
OP
OP
WTF does that mean? Like I said, the man just doesn't have enough command of the English language to communicate effectively.
Errntknght
Registered User
I don't think Igor has a big communication issue, but even a minor one on top of everything else might be like the 'last straw' effect. I think the biggest issue for him was the firing of McD - I don't know his standing with the rest of the Suns FO, but I imagine he feels like he's standing in quicksand. Even though I agreed with his approach to the PG situation, I think he made a mistake. I changed my opinion when he came out and said that the PG was critical to his offensive scheme. I probably shouldn't have been surprised by that since it was clear from his national team being very reliant on on Goran running the show. I would say that he compounded the problem by not adjusting his scheme to fit the players he did have, but not all coaches can do that. The final blow was probably that the veteran players crapped the floor from the second game on. The younger guys followed their lead and we have a team that doesn't even know how to play hard.
He seems to have lost the team though he's still trying different things, but he doesn't know how to revcover. With Sarver at the helm I don't think there's a way out of it, since Sarver probably only considers inexpensive moves, like promoting an assistant coach to replace him.
I know that the prevalent opinion is that our team is just historically bad at everything but I have a couple of statistical valuations of teams and the Suns are comparable to Hawks, Cavs and Bulls. However their WL record is at odds with the valuations - its considerably worse than it should be. Teams that show that pattern are usually teams that are tanking - last year the Suns valuation was in line with their WL record while the EC teams that were taking showed the pattern as did Dallas.
He seems to have lost the team though he's still trying different things, but he doesn't know how to revcover. With Sarver at the helm I don't think there's a way out of it, since Sarver probably only considers inexpensive moves, like promoting an assistant coach to replace him.
I know that the prevalent opinion is that our team is just historically bad at everything but I have a couple of statistical valuations of teams and the Suns are comparable to Hawks, Cavs and Bulls. However their WL record is at odds with the valuations - its considerably worse than it should be. Teams that show that pattern are usually teams that are tanking - last year the Suns valuation was in line with their WL record while the EC teams that were taking showed the pattern as did Dallas.
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1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
if it was "too early" to blame Igor for a 4 and 24 record, it's way too early to credit him for a 4 game winning streak
only after Igor's gone, like Ariza, and we hear the details about what went on in practice and behind the scenes, will it be time for anyone here, including myself to be able to say, "i was right" or "i was wrong" about Igor
what i'm confident in saying
is that the Suns effort now is proof that they had it in them
and the buck stops with the coach that they didn't make that effort for the first 1/3rd of the season
their suckage was not because they "had little talent" or "had injuries" or "need time to adjust to the system"
they're competing now because they're hands and legs are moving -- hustling!
if you accept that a lazy veteran had the power to drag the team down
you have to accept that the head coach had the power to motivate them sooner
i wouldn't be surprised if our vets were particularly unmotivated because they've been around better coaches in their careers and don't respect Igor's authority or leadership
i'm seeing signs of chemistry developing between players
but i'm not seeing any signs of chemistry between the players and coach
only after Igor's gone, like Ariza, and we hear the details about what went on in practice and behind the scenes, will it be time for anyone here, including myself to be able to say, "i was right" or "i was wrong" about Igor
what i'm confident in saying
is that the Suns effort now is proof that they had it in them
and the buck stops with the coach that they didn't make that effort for the first 1/3rd of the season
their suckage was not because they "had little talent" or "had injuries" or "need time to adjust to the system"
they're competing now because they're hands and legs are moving -- hustling!
if you accept that a lazy veteran had the power to drag the team down
you have to accept that the head coach had the power to motivate them sooner
i wouldn't be surprised if our vets were particularly unmotivated because they've been around better coaches in their careers and don't respect Igor's authority or leadership
i'm seeing signs of chemistry developing between players
but i'm not seeing any signs of chemistry between the players and coach
hcsilla
ASFN Lifer
I'm on the exact opposite site.
It was not too early to blame Kokoskov and now it is not too early either to credit him for early signs of the turn-around.
He took over this complete mess. No PG, no PF, no defense, nothing.
In his 1st games things were getting even worse.
Then he started to work (together with the GM) and shortened the rotations, then kicked Chandler, Daniels, Anderson, Canaan and Ariza out of it.
He did put Warren at PF, Booker at PG, inserted Bridges and Melton into the starting line-up. Their defense became existant, their offense did take shape.
After the early and heavy struggling Kokoskov did a remarkable job, at least.
ColdPickleNachos
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I'll admit I was a bit reactionary on Igor. I loved the hire at first, but when you're 4-24 and getting blown out regularly, it's hard to be a fan of a head coach.
These past four games have been an absolute joy. And when we show some signs of regression (inevitable in a long season), I'll try to keep things in a better perspective.
What I love most about the team right now is that players have clear roles and everyone contributes in their own way.
Booker, Warren, and Ayton are reliable scorers (or getting there, in Ayton's case) with 25+ upside each night.
Melton, Bridges, Jackson, Oubre, and Holmes give us 5 rotation players to bring defensive intensity with the occasional big night on offense.
And Jamal Crawford is the vet all of the other vets claimed to be. He's been everything you could want from a 38-year-old NBA player and more.
I'm excited that it pretty much ends there. I've been debating the merits of our third-stringers for years, and it has become clear to me now: When you're excited about guys 10-15, it probably says less about them and more about your 1-9. The only other guy I think much of these days is Okobo, and that's as the prospect he is. It's great.
These past four games have been an absolute joy. And when we show some signs of regression (inevitable in a long season), I'll try to keep things in a better perspective.
What I love most about the team right now is that players have clear roles and everyone contributes in their own way.
Booker, Warren, and Ayton are reliable scorers (or getting there, in Ayton's case) with 25+ upside each night.
Melton, Bridges, Jackson, Oubre, and Holmes give us 5 rotation players to bring defensive intensity with the occasional big night on offense.
And Jamal Crawford is the vet all of the other vets claimed to be. He's been everything you could want from a 38-year-old NBA player and more.
I'm excited that it pretty much ends there. I've been debating the merits of our third-stringers for years, and it has become clear to me now: When you're excited about guys 10-15, it probably says less about them and more about your 1-9. The only other guy I think much of these days is Okobo, and that's as the prospect he is. It's great.
