POLL: Sean Payton in 2023 (Officially Going to Denver)

[imaCafan]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. At least that’s how I think that goes.

 

[BritCard]

That's some rose colored glass you are looking through. This team is a mess and needs a lot more than that to right the ship.

It was practically the same roster and staff that went 11-6 the year before. Just with the 3rd worst injury list in the league.

The roster for sure needs a bunch of work but it's not the disaster people are making out. It was very badly injured and Kyler was poor.

Fix Kyler and a lot of the problems go away.

Now I'll get 20 replies about why it's actually really bad and we suck and the org sucks and our new HC will be Vance and it will will never get better and so on. Which begs the question "Why bother?". Go watch the Suns or log off and play with your kids. Why bother coming here if your only opinion is "We suuuuuck".

 

[Minski]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[lobo]

If I had to bet money I'd bet we hire him.

I think he's qualified first of all so that's good, but I also think Bidwill sees it as a benefit in the Wilks lawsuit.

I guess we're now expanding to 2 Bengals assistants plus Kafka from the Giants. Callahan is the interesting name I guess, 38, son of Bill, but he's never been above an OC and I get the impression most of us think the Bengals offense is the product of Zac Taylor and Burrow and the WR's, not the OC but that may be unfair to him. He's intriguing to me because he was a QB's coach before he was an OC so might be a good fit for Kyler.

My gut says we're not going to hire a coach who hasn't been a HC before so that makes Flores the favorite, but we have a new GM so I have no idea what he thinks.

then you also include the former Broncos HC who is currently on the staff.....AND bringing back Wilks. Th suing e question becomes who has the most baggage....two guys suing you or a guy who has a proven record as a bad HC that has no interviews lined up. Hanging, electric chair, injection or firing squad sir...take your pick!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It doesn't help that a large portion of the ownership complaints are completely fabricated or unsubstantiated rumor.

Don't you get it guys?!? The Cards are actually really good and nice!!!! What does Brit need to do to convince you?

Hey Brit - when was our last playoff win? Care to guess who the last major professional sports team that is waiting for a championship?

Acting like everything was ok after last year is what led to the absolute train wreck of 2022. Living in a fantasy world and lying to themselves is why Michael and crew are in the spot they are.

The funny thing is, no matter how incompetent or unsuccessful a person or team is, there will still be sycophants and the delusional to tell you how they're actually great and everyone is being haters.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

But the league is full of owners that meddle to some degree or another. Lurrie sacked Pederson because he wanted him to change his OC. Nobody says the Eagles are "the worst".

THIS MAY SHOCK YOU, BUT THE EAGLES ARE IN THE SUPER BOWL PAL!!! Results matter. Just terminally illogical.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It was practically the same roster and staff that went 11-6 the year before. Just with the 3rd worst injury list in the league.

The roster for sure needs a bunch of work but it's not the disaster people are making out. It was very badly injured and Kyler was poor.

Fix Kyler and a lot of the problems go away.

Now I'll get 20 replies about why it's actually really bad and we suck and the org sucks and our new HC will be Vance and it will will never get better and so on. Which begs the question "Why bother?". Go watch the Suns or log off and play with your kids. Why bother coming here if your only opinion is "We suuuuuck".

That roster last season couldn't score a TD to save it's life. Now it's down to 1 starter remaining on the OL and a QB who will most likely miss most of next season and if he does return next season he won't be himself for another year.

Defensively that unit ranked 31st in points allowed per game. That defense just lost it's best player up front in Watt. It doesn't have a single proven Edge Rusher or CB. Two of the hardest positions to fill and they could use two of each.

That doesn't even get into severe lack of depth all across the board.

So yeah the problems won't just go away by fixing Kyler. This team has a lot of work to do to just get back to being competitive.

 

[BritCard]

That roster last season couldn't score a TD to save it's life. Now it's down to 1 starter remaining on the OL and a QB who will most likely miss most of next season and if he does return next season he won't be himself for another year.

Defensively that unit ranked 31st in points allowed per game. That defense just lost it's best player up front in Watt. It doesn't have a single proven Edge Rusher or CB. Two of the hardest positions to fill and they could use two of each.

That doesn't even get into depth all across the board.

So yeah the problems won't just go away by fixing Kyler. This team has a lot of work to do to just get back to being competitive.

No, no, no. Not the roster. The team on the field. Which for large chunks of the year excluded Hopkins, Brown, Ertz, Rondale, Kyler, Pugh, Hudson, and Hump.

Colour me shocked it struggled.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Now I'll get 20 replies about why it's actually really bad and we suck and the org sucks and our new HC will be Vance and it will will never get better and so on. Which begs the question "Why bother?". Go watch the Suns or log off and play with your kids. Why bother coming here if your only opinion is "We suuuuuck".

Also, GTFOH with your questioning of fandom - if it bothers you that much, nobody is forcing you to be here.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

No, no, no. Not the roster. The team on the field. Which for large chunks of the year excluded Hopkins, Brown, Ertz, Rondale, Kyler, Pugh, Hudson, and Hump.

Colour me shocked it struggled.

I actually get where you're coming from. The starting roster is/was good on paper. The roster depth is what failed the team.

 

[MadCardDisease]

No, no, no. Not the roster. The team on the field. Which for large chunks of the year excluded Hopkins, Brown, Ertz, Rondale, Kyler, Pugh, Hudson, and Hump.

Colour me shocked it struggled.

And that goes back to lack of depth. It's not like the Cardinals were the only team that had injuries to deal with.

Pugh and Hudson will retire this year so I wouldn't count on them.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

No, no, no. Not the roster. The team on the field. Which for large chunks of the year excluded Hopkins, Brown, Ertz, Rondale, Kyler, Pugh, Hudson, and Hump.

Colour me shocked it struggled.

Lol, that's a house of Cards. Relying on a bunch of injury prone players is a formula for failure - but that's just bad luck in your world, eh?

 

[BritCard]

And that goes back to lack of depth. It's not like the Cardinals were the only team that had injuries to deal with.

Pugh and Hudson will retire this year so I wouldn't count on them.

They were one of the most injured teams in the league for lost starter minutes, and if anyone split that down to offense/defense I'm sure we would have had the worst hit offense.

There were games we had 4 offensive starters on the field. No team has depth to cover that.

Would we have been great without the mass of injuries? Probably not, although teams find form as the season goes on. But I'd bet my last dollar we get 8 wins.

Even with the trash we had out we lost to the Falcons by 1, Bucs in OT by 3, we for sure would have beaten the Broncos and lost to the Chargers by 1.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I hope I don't come off as doom and gloom lol just calling it how I see it this year - in fact if we make some smart moves and draft selections I think we can come out of this transition/rebuild ready to compete in our division - and it's a pretty tough division

 

[DVontel]

Also, GTFOH with your questioning of fandom - if it bothers you that much, nobody is forcing you to be here.

I love how Brit is okay with slandering players on the team, but he gets all defensive & pissy when it comes to slandering the organization that does not deserve any type of benefit with how poor it has been since it’s birth or even arrival to Arizona.

 

[GatorAZ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

.
The value chart is fun to look at for hypotheticals but it really doesn’t mean anything for trades. The point difference listed between the late first rd and early 2nd rd doesn’t seem to to account the extra year of control you get. The Saints weren’t trading him for anything less than our 2024 1st which will be top-10 most likely. They weren’t getting our #3 pick this year or the Broncos 1st next year.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

.
The value chart is fun to look at for hypotheticals but it really doesn’t mean anything for trades. The point difference listed between the late first rd and early 2nd rd doesn’t seem to to account the extra year of control you get. The Saints weren’t trading him for anything less than our 2024 1st which will be top-10 most likely. They weren’t getting our #3 pick this year or the Broncos 1st next year.

Kyle is funny. There is NOTHING about a 2 and a 3 that outweighs a 1 and a 2. Additionally, if that's what Mike offered Loomis, then I'm a-ok with not getting Payton.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The value chart is fun to look at for hypotheticals but it really doesn’t mean anything for trades.

Uh, what standard would you prefer?

The Saints weren’t trading him for anything less than our 2024 1st which will be top-10 most likely.

I love how you can state this with such certainty, based on.....

They weren’t getting our #3 pick this year or the Broncos 1st next year.

Duh, but why mention it? We could have easily trumped the Broncos offer if we wanted. MB didn't want to pay the price for real credibility - shocker!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Kyle is funny. There is NOTHING about a 2 and a 3 that outweighs a 1 and a 2. Additionally, if that's what Mike offered Loomis, then I'm a-ok with not getting Payton.

You do realize that the Saints are giving the Broncos a third round pick next year, right?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You do realize that the Saints are giving the Broncos a third round pick next year, right?

Don't care. If Mike offered a 2 and a 3 and stuck to his guns, it doesn't bother me.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Don't care. If Mike offered a 2 and a 3 and stuck to his guns, it doesn't bother me.

You said:

"There is NOTHING about a 2 and a 3 that outweighs a 1 and a 2."

That's not the trade.

It's:

#30 in this draft
second round pick in 2024

for
Payton/ 2024 3rd round pick

Cards offer would have been:

#35 in this draft
second round pick in 2024

You're not seriously insinuating the Broncos offer is better, are you?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You said:

"There is NOTHING about a 2 and a 3 that outweighs a 1 and a 2."

That's not the trade.

It's:

#30 in this draft
second round pick in 2024

for
Payton/ 2024 3rd round pick

Cards offer would have been:

#35 in this draft
second round pick in 2024

You're not seriously insinuating the Broncos offer is better, are you?

You do realize the tweet said a 2 and a 3 from AZ, right? Not two 2's, which is what #35 this year and 2024 second rounder would be. #30 is still in the 1st round and gives the team the 5th year option, which is actually valuable.

 

[FB94]

perhaps the saints just wanted him in the AFC at the end of the day.

 

[GatorAZ]

Uh, what standard would you prefer?

I love how you can state this with such certainty, based on.....

Duh, but why mention it? We could have easily trumped the Broncos offer if we wanted. MB didn't want to pay the price for real credibility - shocker!

Just saying it’s a made up chart:

The original NFL Draft value chart was created by Jimmy Johnson during his time with the Cowboys in the early 1990s. The idea was simple. He wanted to assign numerical values to each draft pick as a way to evaluate the worth of picks for potential trades.

So, Johnson created the draft value trade chart by giving the first pick in the draft the highest value at 3,000 points. Each pick after that decreased in value. This chart gave the Cowboys a competitive advantage when making trades in the early stages of its use, but eventually, the rest of the NFL adopted it.

The value chart changes slightly from year to year because of the varying number of compensatory picks tacked on to each round beginning in the third and beyond. Here's a look at how the values shake out for the 2022 NFL Draft, per Drafttek.com.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You do realize the tweet said a 2 and a 3 from AZ, right?

That's the likely value, based off of trade charts.

Not two 2's, which is what #35 this year and 2024 second rounder would be. #30 is still in the 1st round and gives the team the 5th year option, which is actually valuable.

The 5th year option is the only aspect that makes 30 more valuable than 35. Outside of that, a straight 3rd is better than giving up a 3rd for a 2nd. (which the chart explains)

Point being - Cards could have easily trumped the Broncos deal, and didn't make the commitment. I'm amused at how picks are suddenly at a premium when we're giving away firsts for Hollywood and 2nds for McBride.