...and they have been. Consistently. It's painful to watch.. bend but don't break defenses have always pissed me off.
Poll: What to do about the defense
- Thread starter BigRedRage
- Start date
... which is kinda ironic, given that what fans are most pissed about this week is VJ's decision to blitz, rather than play zone and "bend, but don't break". Break but don't bend defenses are great, except when they break!
...dave
Cardsfaninlouky
ASFN Lifer
He's buddies with the 49ers DL coach. They played football together at TT. Would be an upgrade over what we're seeing now more than likely lol.
Agreed. But the latter shows defenses that are the aggressors and aren't reactionary..imo. That's why we all appreciated bowles led defenses imo..
Maybe we just have a bunch of stupid defensive players who can't execute the defense. When you see the same mistakes over and over, you really have to question the personnel. The coaches can only teach and scheme. The players are the ones who have to execute those schemes.
I think you need to look at if VJ has lost his defensive players. Wilks lost the whole team if I recall correctly and he definitely needed to go.
VJ I don't know.
VJ I don't know.
The problem is, if your DC loses one of the good players he started to be a lame duck DC.
We need a D that is behind theire DC and that shows improvement after 5-7 games and doesn't stay on the level.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
They’re not being taught the right way... Lamar Jackson got a 13 on the wonderlic, plays the most mentally demanding position in sports and is the front runner for MVP at 22 years old. These last 5 games are everything for Vance.
DeAnna
Just A Face in The Crowd
True - and in that vein, they first player they should part ways with is HR#43. Get a linebacker who can cover, please.
Outerlimits
Veteran
It is worse than last year. Which is why we have a terrible record despite significant improvement on offense.
However, whether Vance or Keim deserves more of the blame is where I'm unsure. The talent isn't good, but some of the defensive playcalling has been trash as well.
I don't think Vance is going to be anything but average, even with a very good roster, but I can see the value of holding onto him while you build up the defense if he is good at identifying the talent needed at each position. (I wouldn't keep him, but I'm not Kliff)
The 49ers were 26th, 23rd and now 2nd in DVOA under Saleh - so it's possible.
Bowles has a WORSE passing defense than we do, and I would toss Joseph aside for Bowles in a second.
Bettcher also has a worse passing defense in NY, and he had our unit running at 3rd and 4th in DVOA his last two years with us.
Results like those show how difficult it can be to turn around a defense quickly, and how quickly things can so south.
The 49ers were 26th, 23rd and now 2nd in DVOA under Saleh - so it's possible.
Bowles has a WORSE passing defense than we do, and I would toss Joseph aside for Bowles in a second.
Bettcher also has a worse passing defense in NY, and he had our unit running at 3rd and 4th in DVOA his last two years with us.
Results like those show how difficult it can be to turn around a defense quickly, and how quickly things can so south.
juza76
ASFN Icon
We have been the worst defense last year and this year too
And proviously with bettcher started the decline
Coaches has been changed, results are the same
The personnel is the reason we sucks
This defense is a mix of mediocre players and overrated players
Outerlimits
Veteran
Well, the defense last year was often put in terrible field position and time of possession by our historically bad offense. This year, the offense is actually managing drives, scoring points, and Kyler commits few turnovers. Yet, the defense often gives up huge scoring drives and rarely helps out the offense.
The offense still makes some mistakes but is miles ahead of the defense. With even a mediocre defense, we would likely be in the thick of the wild card hunt. Instead we have 3 wins so far.
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
I'd take Cleveland's DC...just sayin'...
People are posting that if Cards D was just middle of the road, they'd be 6-4ish and in playoff hunt....well Cleveland ranks #16 in total defense...middle of the road.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
People are posting that if Cards D was just middle of the road, they'd be 6-4ish and in playoff hunt....well Cleveland ranks #16 in total defense...middle of the road.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Dr. Jones
Has No Time For Love
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2004
- Posts
- 27,326
- Reaction score
- 16,222
And move back to a 4-3? that's crazy talk man.
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
We were already duped to believe that they were going to run man 2 man 3-4...and they run a lot of zone.
This would be year 2 in a 4-3 zone scheme.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Also, as discombobulated it looked with the 4-3 transition last year, they still ended up 20th overall...11 spots better than this year, where again they were supposed to be more suited to play.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Actually - we ended up 17th in DVOA, 8th in the pass, 29th in rush; if you go by FootballOutsiders: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef/2018
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2005
- Posts
- 46,247
- Reaction score
- 11,852
This should be option C. I didn't vote because it was a bit to granular.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I am completely up in the air on this. It isn't that we have a bad defensive DVOA, it is that we are SO bad. We are not close to the mid range while teams like Tampa are. The Jets have a significantly better defensive DVOA. I think continuity is important, but I also think competence is also important. I get that we have bad personnel, but I struggle to imagine a world where a competent DC can't make a defense which includes Chandler Jones, Corey Peters, Jordan Hicks, and Patrick Peterson, average. I guess it depends for me on who is available. If there is an glaring upgrade available, we should take it. (and I really don't care if it is a 3-4 or 4-3...we need to bring in a ton of player regardless)
DVontel
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2015
- Posts
- 13,017
- Reaction score
- 23,172
The problem is hiring a DC that primarily runs zone vs a DC that primarily runs man.
What’s funny is I wanted Lamar but he would have been a failure here...He is what he is because of John Harbaugh and staff. It is nothing short of amazing the scheme they have developed to maximize his skill set.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I would normally agree, but I don't think it matters as much this offseason. We have so many holes to fill, regardless of the scheme we have to add guys to fill those spots. Who we target will be dependent on the scheme, but the only player we historically have been worried about alienating has been Patrick Peterson and I don't know that he warrants that level of consideration anymore. Chandler Jones can play in any scheme. Corey Peters can play in any scheme. Jordan Hicks...any scheme. Byron Murphy...any scheme. Who else are we really worried about?
Bkbobo
Hall of Famer
The question we should be asking … if we got rid on Vance, who would we want to replace him???
