POP vs D'Anton

[Cheesebeef]

I think judging the quality of coaching in the NBA is much harder to do than in any other sport. Is Jerry Sloan a good coach? He doesn't have any rings, but his winning percentage is comparable to D'Antonis (though over a longer period obviously, since D'Antoni hasn't been in the NBA as long). Outside of the Pistons of a few years ago, you almost always have to have one of the top 3 players of your generation to win a title.

Lets recap:

Heat-O'Neal
Spurs-Duncan
Lakers-O'Neal and Bryant
Bulls- Jordan
Rockets- Hakeem
Pistons (80s)- Isiah
Celtics- Bird
Lakers-Magic

Has D'Antoni had any guys on quite that level? Probably not. Nash is quite good, but he's just not able to take over a game quite like those guys did. Especially with all the bad luck the Suns have had (JJs eye, Amares knee, the suspensions, etc).

I do think D'Antoni has coaching deficiencies, he's obviously stubborn to a fault and I'd wish he'd use his bench more in the regular season, but heck, don't you remember the Frank Johnson days? I'll take a 60%+ winning percentage every day of the week. I like how the Jazz ownership has kept Sloan around even though he's never reached the ultimate goal, they know winning consistently at a clip like he has is quite a difficult thing to do.

D'Antoni himself has said the journey and not the destination is the most important thing. If the Suns never win the title, I'm not going to stop being a fan. I have fun watching the Suns, and I thought thats what sports was about. Sure its frustrating when they lose, but thats what makes the wins even more sweet.

So I guess what I'm saying is, is D'Antoni as good as Popp? Maybe not, but D'Antoni never had Duncan either. If Amare can continue his current trajectory, I think the Suns will have titles at some point, but its on Amare's back, they'll go as far as he can take them.

the next time DA a) gets his team to a Finals (much less back to back) and b) does anything in this league without Steve Nash you can compare him to Sloan. Until then, there's simply no comparison in my opinion. Sloan does more with less and DA does less with more.

 

[WildBB]

the next time DA a) gets his team to a Finals (much less back to back) and b) does anything in this league without Steve Nash you can compare him to Sloan. Until then, there's simply no comparison in my opinion. Sloan does more with less and DA does less with more.

Exactely.

 

[HooverDam]

the next time DA a) gets his team to a Finals (much less back to back) and b) does anything in this league without Steve Nash you can compare him to Sloan. Until then, there's simply no comparison in my opinion. Sloan does more with less and DA does less with more.

Well thats a pretty ridiculous request, D'Antoni hasn't been around as long as Sloan. We can't really judge D'Antoni for what he did in Denver because those teams were complete junk. If D'Antoni decides to keep coaching after Nash-Hill-Shaq hang it up, then we can probably evaluate him a bit more fairly.

I think 9 times out of 10, sports fans have 'back up QB syndrome". The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side. Some scrub player on other team is more desirable than the guy you watch every night and can pick at. Some other coach is always the answer. Of the coaches that are actually available out there, who would you take over D'Antoni? Scott Skiles? No. Jeff Van Gundy? Mike Fratello? Larry Browns a good coach, but I'd hate to be a fan of a team he coached. I think if you try to step back and be fair and don't say "well bring in Pat Riley, Phil Jackson or Poppovich!", you'll realize the Suns have done the right thing by keeping D'Antoni around.

 

[shazaam6]

the next time DA a) gets his team to a Finals (much less back to back) and b) does anything in this league without Steve Nash you can compare him to Sloan. Until then, there's simply no comparison in my opinion. Sloan does more with less and DA does less with more.

Awesome summation that says it all.

I would take Sloan if Dantoni is out.
If Dantoni would use his bench and develop rookies a little during the regular season and come up with a passable defensive scheme, I would back him. But he is not doing that so ... I would welcome Sloan as a coach of the Suns.

 

[passenger]

Yah Gregg Popovich, he's a genius. I'm sure he drew up Duncan throwing up a 3 point prayer. Please.

i don't like his personality,he is rude even in the interviews,some players that have worked for him,has admitted he sometimes swears at players really badly,so he's s dirt..But..

He is one of the best coaches in the NBA.No doubt.

 

[The Man In Black]

Pop is an incredible coach and most every player that has ever played for him thinks he is an awesome players coach able to get both bench scrub and All-star to understand what roles need to be played in order to get the best result possible.
I think D'Antoni is a fine coach but if Sloan felt like leaving Utah, I'd take him as well because like Pop, he instills a defense first and share the ball mentality. In fact, Pop modeled his team after Sloan's team with Malone and Stockton.

 

[Highpointer]

Sloan has NEVER won a championship

I think D'Antoni is a fine coach but if Sloan felt like leaving Utah, I'd take him as well because like Pop, he instills a defense first and share the ball mentality. In fact, Pop modeled his team after Sloan's team with Malone and Stockton.

How many championships has Sloan won? ZERO!

We can't afford to hire another coach without championship experience. Do you want to wait another 100 years for the Suns to win a championship?

 

[Darth Llama]

Let me ask this as a serious question, because I really don't know..

Who should D'Antoni go to in the clutch? Steve Nash? Don't you think the Spurs expected that? The guys he went to got good shots, they just missed them, is that really the coaches fault?

You know me guys, I'm the last one to defend D'Antoni, I think he's the main reason the Suns can't win a title, but putting this loss on him might be a bit much. He really only has one clutch shooter, the only other guy you would trust would be Amare, and the Spurs are really good at denying that entry pass. You would go to Amare if he was open, but it's a big risk trying to pass into the post for the game winner against the Spurs. Sometimes, you have to go to a guy they won't be expecting to take it. We don't even know if the play was drawn up to go to Barbosa or not do we? We already saw a play broken that ended up in Duncans hands that worked, so how come Pop is a genius and D'Antoni is an idiot? Didn't they basically do the same thing, just that Pop's player made the shot?

Again, I'm not a D'Antoni fan, but I'm a little confused on this one.

 

[Stargazer]

I don't get this criticism of D'Antoni. Yes, Diaw and LB missed clutch shots at the end. Guess what? So did Amare (passing on jumper from FT to pick up charge instead) and Nash (missing FT in final minute that ended up costing the game). And how is Pop a genuis when, by his own admission, TD's game winner was the third option on the play (meaning that options 1 and 2 failed) and a desperation one at that?

As for Sloan -- does anybody seriously think that Hill or Shaq, or even Nash for that matter, would come to Phoenix to play with Sloan? Part of being a great coach is being able to attract great players, and at least D'Antoni can do that.

 

[Darth Llama]

As for Sloan -- does anybody seriously think that Hill or Shaq, or even Nash for that matter, would come to Phoenix to play with Sloan?

Absolutely yes. Sloan is one of the best coaches the NBA has to offer. Why would the idea of playing for Sloan turn anyone away? The man is a brilliant coach. It doesn't matter though, he'll coach the Jazz till he retires.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't get this criticism of D'Antoni. Yes, Diaw and LB missed clutch shots at the end. Guess what? So did Amare (passing on jumper from FT to pick up charge instead) and Nash (missing FT in final minute that ended up costing the game). And how is Pop a genuis when, by his own admission, TD's game winner was the third option on the play (meaning that options 1 and 2 failed) and a desperation one at that?

As for Sloan -- does anybody seriously think that Hill or Shaq, or even Nash for that matter, would come to Phoenix to play with Sloan? Part of being a great coach is being able to attract great players, and at least D'Antoni can do that.

I think that's more a testament to Nash than anything else. You know what an even bigger part of being a "great coach"? Taking great players and winning titles with them. How can a coach be considered great when he has great titles and never even gets out of his own conference, much less win the whole thing?

 

[green machine]

Let me ask this as a serious question, because I really don't know..

Who should D'Antoni go to in the clutch? Steve Nash? Don't you think the Spurs expected that? The guys he went to got good shots, they just missed them, is that really the coaches fault?

You know me guys, I'm the last one to defend D'Antoni, I think he's the main reason the Suns can't win a title, but putting this loss on him might be a bit much. He really only has one clutch shooter, the only other guy you would trust would be Amare, and the Spurs are really good at denying that entry pass. You would go to Amare if he was open, but it's a big risk trying to pass into the post for the game winner against the Spurs. Sometimes, you have to go to a guy they won't be expecting to take it. We don't even know if the play was drawn up to go to Barbosa or not do we? We already saw a play broken that ended up in Duncans hands that worked, so how come Pop is a genius and D'Antoni is an idiot? Didn't they basically do the same thing, just that Pop's player made the shot?

Again, I'm not a D'Antoni fan, but I'm a little confused on this one.

I agree.

Nash passed it to Barbosa when it looked like he may have had Diaw open under the hoop. We don't know who the play was drawn up for, but the ball was in Nash's hands so I imagine he could have taken the shot if he was so inclined.

As for the Diaw play, he was having a good game and would have had a good look if he hadn't stumbled (or got tripped) when he made his move.

Either one, if they make it then people are calling D'Antoni a genius for not calling the play for one of the "predictable" guys. It's the same problem for a guy like Kobe or Garnett with the game on the line: if they pass the ball and the guy misses then they made a mistake, and if they shoot it when another guy is open and miss then they made a mistake. The only time anyone does the right thing is when the shot goes in, and if it does, nobody gives a crap who shot it.

 

[ambchang_]

i don't like his personality,he is rude even in the interviews,some players that have worked for him,has admitted he sometimes swears at players really badly,so he's s dirt..But..

He is one of the best coaches in the NBA.No doubt.

Quote please.

If anything, all Spurs players have reiterated over and over again how much Pop cares about them as a person, and that the Spurs are like a big family.

Even Malik Rose, who clashed with Pop consistently before he left, hated leaving the Spurs.

 

[ambchang_]

I don't get this criticism of D'Antoni. Yes, Diaw and LB missed clutch shots at the end. Guess what? So did Amare (passing on jumper from FT to pick up charge instead) and Nash (missing FT in final minute that ended up costing the game). And how is Pop a genuis when, by his own admission, TD's game winner was the third option on the play (meaning that options 1 and 2 failed) and a desperation one at that?

So having a 3rd option when your first 2 is taken away from you is bad coaching? How does that work?

As for Sloan -- does anybody seriously think that Hill or Shaq, or even Nash for that matter, would come to Phoenix to play with Sloan? Part of being a great coach is being able to attract great players, and at least D'Antoni can do that.

Nash left Dallas because of money, Hill joined because of Nash and few practices, and Shaq was traded (also wanted to play with Nash). If you want to attribute all of this to D'antoni, I can say the same with Boozer, Okur, and Fisher.

 

[DeAnna]

As for the Diaw play, he was having a good game and would have had a good look if he hadn't stumbled (or got tripped) when he made his move.

Actually Diaw said Udoke tripped him, but it was actually Ginobilli who slid his foot under him while he was shooting. I had to watch it several times so see it, since it was very subtle (and Bowen-like).

 

[x24val]

Pop would've taken a talented older (23 I think) rookie like DJ Strawberry and had him as a contributer. The Suns could really use him with Hill being injured. Oh well

___________
the truth, the rally cry... http://www.2bdfilms.com/suns.html

 

[nowagimp]

I think that's more a testament to Nash than anything else. You know what an even bigger part of being a "great coach"? Taking great players and winning titles with them. How can a coach be considered great when he has great titles and never even gets out of his own conference, much less win the whole thing?

So then, by that def sloan is not a great coach. Perhaps the only thing separating sloan from POP is drafting Tim Duncan. If only sloan had known he needed to tank and hope for a tim duncan to be available, THEN he would have been a great coach. SInce 8 of the last 9 titles had either Duncan or shaq on the team, I guess great coaches only happen when great big men are on the team.

 

[nowagimp]

Pop would've taken a talented older (23 I think) rookie like DJ Strawberry and had him as a contributer. The Suns could really use him with Hill being injured. Oh well

___________
the truth, the rally cry... http://www.2bdfilms.com/suns.html

pop has never used rookies in a major role to win a championship. He dumped scola for nothing and was happy with oberto.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So then, byt hat degf sloan is not a great coach.

you can't honestly tell me that Sloan's Utah teams had anywhere near the talent that DA's squads have had. Again, he did more with less than any coach I've ever seen, even after Stockton-Malone.

Perhaps the only thing separating sloan from POP is drafting Tim Duncan.

the only thing stopping sloan from pop is Michael Jordan - the most unbeatable superstar ever to grace the hardwood.

 

[Cheesebeef]

pop has never used rookies in a major role to win a championship. He dumped scola for nothing and was happy with oberto.

who said anything about a "major role" - a contributer just has to be a guy who can taker some minutes, like Beno Udrih did back in 2005. And he sure as hell started a rookie (Tony Parker) when trying to win a championship, didn't he?

 

[The Man In Black]

How many championships has Sloan won? ZERO!

We can't afford to hire another coach without championship experience. Do you want to wait another 100 years for the Suns to win a championship?

It's not about the championship for Sloan in this case. He should already have one except for the JBA(Jordan Basketball Association) happened especially on that Brion Russell push to the ground no call. But what he is, is a PREPARED coach and with your players, he could do great, great things.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Popp >>>> D'Antoni. Period.
Sloan >>>> D'Antoni Period.

Most of the League < D'Antoni. It's true.

 

[The Man In Black]

pop has never used rookies in a major role to win a championship. He dumped scola for nothing and was happy with oberto.

That's not a correct statement. Ginobili was a rookie in 2003, DRob's final year in the NBA when the Spurs won their 2nd overall title. His contributions have grow but he was used extensively in that run.

 

[The Big Cactus]

Let me ask this as a serious question, because I really don't know..

Who should D'Antoni go to in the clutch? Steve Nash? Don't you think the Spurs expected that? The guys he went to got good shots, they just missed them, is that really the coaches fault?

You know me guys, I'm the last one to defend D'Antoni, I think he's the main reason the Suns can't win a title, but putting this loss on him might be a bit much. He really only has one clutch shooter, the only other guy you would trust would be Amare, and the Spurs are really good at denying that entry pass. You would go to Amare if he was open, but it's a big risk trying to pass into the post for the game winner against the Spurs. Sometimes, you have to go to a guy they won't be expecting to take it. We don't even know if the play was drawn up to go to Barbosa or not do we? We already saw a play broken that ended up in Duncans hands that worked, so how come Pop is a genius and D'Antoni is an idiot? Didn't they basically do the same thing, just that Pop's player made the shot?

Again, I'm not a D'Antoni fan, but I'm a little confused on this one.

I'm not ragging on D'antoni, but Nash should take the last shot, just like Kobe should take the last shot. With players like Nash, Kobe, Dirk, or Lebron, it shouldn't matter whether or not the defense knows its coming, because those are the star players on your team, and you live or die by whether or not they make the play. If Nash misses a fade away three with a man right in his face, I would feel much better than if Diaw misses an open jumper.

 

[nowagimp]

And he sure as hell started a rookie (Tony Parker) when trying to win a championship, didn't he?

yep he did and apparently learned his lesson, look how old the spurs are now. And its not like the spurs didnt get any draft picks, they just gave those away or waived them. Udrih gone, scola given away, Devin brown gone ... theres a pattern here. Pops apparently doesnt trust inexperienced young guys, no so different from DA.