post from a random guy (but another gem)

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more stuff to get you hyped up :)

nbasource.blogspot.com

Amare Stoudemire: The NBA's Resident Beast

By now there isn't much I can write about Amare Stoudemire that would surprise you. We all saw the numbers he posted in the '04-05 regular season and watched in absolute awe of his performance in the Playoffs. In the Suns’ Western Conference Finals loss to the Spurs, Amare averaged a cool 37.0 and 9.8 on Tim Duncan and co before bowing out in 5. The kid (just 22) is an absolute freak of nature, flying onto the NBA superstar radar faster than he can throw down a dunk over Pape Sow. We know this, we recognize this, so what else is there to talk about? Well, a few years ago during Yao-mania, none of us quite knew what to expect out of Stoudemire. Entering the league straight out of Cypress Creek High School, Amare was a mere afterthought compared to Yao and the other seven players taken ahead of him in the '02 Draft. Today, he's positively the best prospect from that crop (including Yao) and if his progression tells us anything so far, it's that he's still got a ways to go. So the question is, what were teams thinking three years ago? Maybe it’s the fact that scouts and GMs were too focussed on jump shooting, “upside”, raw talent, court vision, and all that crap. What they failed to recognize (and continue to do so) is that players’ will to win/compassion for the game can carry them just as far as Jay Bilas’ famous “upside”. Four teams ignored it in ’95 in passing up Kevin Garnett. 12 organizations did it when Kobe Bryant fell to 13 in ’96. And wow we’re starting to see the same with Amare. When all is said in done, I’m afraid those eight GMs will be kicking themselves just as hard as those select few who passed on KG and Kobe.

Take a look at Amare's pre-draft card courtesy of nbadraft.net:

NBA Comparison: Ben Wallace

Strengths: Nasty! Unbelievable physical specimen with intense desire and aggressiveness. Shotblocker/rebounder extraordinaire, takes the ball to the basket with authority and tries to dunk EVERYTHING. Like a man amongst boys on the HS All-Star Camp level, against the cream of the prep crop, to the point where it becomes laughable. Has persevered through tough times living with AAU coaches and friends while his mother was incarcerated.

Weaknesses: Offensive game is still very raw. Because he is able to overpower everyone he faces, developing any perimeter game has been pointless. His handle and jumpshot must improve. Developing better moves around the basket.

Three years later, can we say much, if anything has changed in Stoudemire’s game? Reading that profile, I can see why teams strayed away from him. A 6-9 PF with a relatively weak jumper who tries to dunk “EVERYTHING”. Players like that usually don’t pan out well, just as Chris Wilcox, who just happens to be the guy the Clippers nabbed right before PHX took Amare. But nowhere on this player profile does it discuss his competitive nature. Maybe the writers shied away because it’s such a hard characteristic to judge. We hear it all the time from analysts and coaches about how “this guy has such competitive fire, it’s incredible”. Really? Well I’d expect every player at the pro level to play competitively on a nightly basis. Those who do not should take their rightful spot on the bench next to the assistant trainer. But what I see in Amare is a passion that enables him to carry his game to new levels. Players like Jason Kidd and Dirk Nowitzki are great basketball players and usually perform at spectacular levels. But they don’t have what Amare does, that spark, that gift that will and already has allowed him to get better every time he sets foot on a basketball court. Grant Hill had it at Duke and early on with Detroit. Of course MJ had it, as did Larry and Magic. Those who display this edge now: Iverson, Shaq, Kobe, and the very best example, Garnett. These guys just have that will to win, the fire that makes them and their teammates better, every night and ultimately, every season. I saw it in Amare for the first time this past June. It didn’t matter to him that his Suns were getting hammered by the eventual champs. Just like he didn’t let his mother’s incarceration slow him down. Just like on Draft 2002 when he sat in the Green Room for eight picks until David Stern called his name. Nothing gets to this kid because his heart, his fire, and his competitive nature won’t let it. That’s what creates superstars in this league and I don’t think I’m alone in predicting that Amare Stoudemire will be (if he’s not already) the NBA’s next superstar. This season we get to see yet another step in that progression towards stardom and perhaps one that will get his Suns to the Finals. If not, don’t expect it to get him down. Nothing has so far.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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I love the article but how in the world can he put Shaq in the the catagory of will to win.

If anything he is the posterchild of players that get caught up in the glitz and glammer instead of offseason training.
 

mathbzh

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The shaq does not will to win? :eek:
Year Champion MVP
99-00 Lakers O'Neal
00-01 Lakers O'Neal
01-02 Lakers O'Neal
Not so bad for a guy without "WILL TO WIN".
I am not a great Shaq fan but he deserves some respect as the most dominant player of our time.

Iverson does not will to win, he wills to score. He feeds his statistics box and don't care about win.
 

Arizona's Finest

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The shaq does not will to win? :eek:

I love the foreign influence this message board is getting........:thumbup:
 

George O'Brien

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My definition of the "will to win" is a guy that always puts his team first, yet can do the individual stuff when needed. I have no doubt that Jordan, Bird, Magic, Russell, etc. all that quality. Winning was everything to these guys.

In the case of Amare, he has an incredible inner fire that permited him to step up his performance in the playoffs. He still lacks the total game he needs to become the best in the business, but there is little doubt that he will develop it because winning is so important to him.

At some point I doubt whether either Shaq or Kobe have that total will to win, inspite of their great success. Their personal conflict destroyed what could have been a continuing dynasty. Their incredible talents took them a long way, but eventually their egos got the better of them.
 

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playstation said:
What they failed to recognize (and continue to do so) is that players’ will to win/compassion for the game can carry them just as far as Jay Bilas’ famous “upside”.

When I think about Amare's game, compassionate is not the word that usually comes to mind.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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mathbzh said:
The shaq does not will to win? :eek:
Year Champion MVP
99-00 Lakers O'Neal
00-01 Lakers O'Neal
01-02 Lakers O'Neal
Not so bad for a guy without "WILL TO WIN".
I am not a great Shaq fan but he deserves some respect as the most dominant player of our time.

Iverson does not will to win, he wills to score. He feeds his statistics box and don't care about win.


Ignore the awards. Shaq is the most dominant player in the game which is why he gets trophies for his mantle. He however puts himself before the team, shows up to play maybe half of the season and will refuse to defend unless he gets the ball on offense.

Iverson's competitive heart is much larger than Shaq's.


It wasn't who wins the most, it is who is willing to do more to do it.
 
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thegrahamcrackr said:
Ignore the awards. Shaq is the most dominant player in the game which is why he gets trophies for his mantle. He however puts himself before the team, shows up to play maybe half of the season and will refuse to defend unless he gets the ball on offense.

Iverson's competitive heart is much larger than Shaq's.


It wasn't who wins the most, it is who is willing to do more to do it.

most people who are the big dog would do that. it is rare indeed to find a man who is superior in talent to all those around him yet motivates himself as though he's the low dog on the totem pole. in fact, there is only 1: MJ.

everyone else that was great had a foil to push them to get better: magic and bird, wilt and russell. the so-called great ones today (kobe, ai, tmac) are obviously not on that level. only shaq is, and he, like MJ, has NO competition near his level. however, because of this, shaq relaxes, while MJ somehow convinced himself to do otherwise. this, once again, is why i respect MJ like no other athlete in sports. i heard once: michael jordan played basketball better than anyone has done anything ever. obvious hyperbole, but interesting how a guy so dominant can still push himself...even tiger woods has had his struggles with that.
 

mathbzh

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As I said, I am not a Shaq Fan.
Amare has probably more fighting spirit.

But in a face to face with Iverson, Shaq has something Iverson doesn't : Shaq is a winner.
Iverson is maybe the more talented player in the league. But he doesn't know what "Team" means. Even Jordan needed Pippen to win. Iverson doesn't understand that. If I was a GM, I wouldn't take Iverson in my team, even for free.
 

Jay Cardinal

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Iverson

mathbzh said:
As I said, I am not a Shaq Fan.
Amare has probably more fighting spirit.

But in a face to face with Iverson, Shaq has something Iverson doesn't : Shaq is a winner.
Iverson is maybe the more talented player in the league. But he doesn't know what "Team" means. Even Jordan needed Pippen to win. Iverson doesn't understand that. If I was a GM, I wouldn't take Iverson in my team, even for free.

I think in the last year Iverson has become much more of a team player. He's really "grown up" on and off the court. His assists have gone up in the last couple years as well.

Up until last year I would not have wanted him on my team, but now that he has matured I would love to have him. He still is the quickest player in the league and plays good defense. It also should be noted that Shaq has always had an All-Star teammate while AI has played with a bunch of nobodys in Philly.
 

Arizona's Finest

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The problem with Iverson (and Marbury for that matter) is that for any type of success, you have to tailor your team to fit their style of game. Its not so much wether they are team players or not, its that they play a certain way and as I have stated before they might be the two most talented (once agin i stick with the premise the less size you have, the more actual skill you must possess) players in the league. But in terms of actual winning, you better have the right players and coach around those two, or you will be mediocre for years.

Being that their games dictate they have the ball 70% of the time, when they are not on the floor their team hurts, and when they are on the floor the other players are too deferential. Now if the team plays insane defense and has a bunch of role players who accept their role, its possible to win (see 76ers the year they went the finals with LB) but it takes quite a confluence of things coming together. For my money i would never want either of those players on my team as it is likely they will be the only players on their respective team playing at maximum capability. You cant play one on five, it just wont work.

I do think Marbury and Iverson want to win, and do what they can to make it happen. I just think their game is too far ingrained for them to develop into players who make others better.
 
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