Prediction time

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
sunsfn said:
Forgot about Van Arsdale moving up.....but still thought he was in on the decision making because he is usually at the try-outs and makes his comments. Maybe he just likes to be there.
(He is the one that said that about Ike not having the game for the suns style)


I have not heard about them moving up from any source other than here, and so I am not sure they will. But they certainly could, but not to take Ike.

----


I agree if they move up, it won't be for Ike. Unless they are really sold on him and want to jump ahead of NJ. I don't think they like him that much though.

Van Arsdale is still involved, but I am almost positive it is as a scouting type person. The same way Chapman was involved. When did Van say Ike didn't fit? I can't seem to remember it (not doubting you). He attended a ton of ASU games over the years, so he is probably has the best grasp on Ike. If he really doesn't like him, I guess I could see them passing. Of course, Mike seemed to like him a lot.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
scotsman13 said:
thanks for proving my point for me graham, the problem with ike isnt that he isnt skilled or that he is short so much as he is not explosive on both getting off his feet and running the court. brand is a very good leaper it isnt just his arms that leads him to block shots or being able to score he is explosive with his movements around the basket, around the court and getting off the ground. ike isnt, i am sorry.


I don't see why this matters though? Ike can move, and is really explosive on the block. You said you haven't seen him, but you should try to find some film. He isn't a leaper, you are right about that.


But with that said, why does it matter? Someone has to get the rebound and outlet the ball. Ike is an amazing rebounder. Why would the Suns get Thomas if they thought all 5 people had to run?
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
From draftexpress:

First his frame. He is lean, but very strong, with big broad shoulders that can take more bulk if needed. His arms are long and his hands are fantastic--soft, but huge, and he uses them to gobble up any rebound that is even remotely in his area. He is a simply a beast on the glass, using his excellent combination of strength (both upper and lower body), a terrific wingspan, fantastic anticipation skills and athletic ability to predict where the ball is headed and then devour any rebound that comes his way, on both the offensive and defensive glass. He is extremely tough to put a body on because he is constantly moving, has a slithery frame and just loves to bang in the post.

Offensively, he is about as skilled as they come. He can score from anywhere on the floor, and in many different ways. Inside the paint he has outstanding footwork, and he gets off the floor quickly and always finishes strong at the hoop, even in the most difficult situations. If backing his man down to the basket isn't working, he can quickly convert and hit the turnaround jumper, maybe with a little kiss off the glass, a great skill to have for a big man in the NBA.


It's not rare to see him dribble the ball confidently down the floor, and his excellent feel for the game allows him to lead the break and deliver good passes in transition. He is very good moving without the ball, understands the angles and how to use them, and is quick at recognizing a hole in the defense and exploit it. Diogu understands the team concept and has no problem getting everyone else involved, despite being the undisputed star of his team; he is an unselfish player and still shoots an incredible percentage from the field for a player that draws so much attention. His court demeanor is excellent, cool and calm, and he appears to be a very good teammate on and off the floor. He is a humble player with a good work ethic according to everyone around him.

Defensively, Diogu has become a terrific shotblocker this year, especially from the weak-side. His timing is fantastic and he gets off the floor quickly and accurately to intimidate and come up with huge rejections, but usually still keeping the ball inbounds. He is very tough to back down in the paint because of his excellent lower body strength, but he has yet to be fully unleashed on this end because of how important he is to Arizona State.
 

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
thegrahamcrackr said:
I agree if they move up, it won't be for Ike. Unless they are really sold on him and want to jump ahead of NJ. I don't think they like him that much though.

Van Arsdale is still involved, but I am almost positive it is as a scouting type person. The same way Chapman was involved. When did Van say Ike didn't fit? I can't seem to remember it (not doubting you). He attended a ton of ASU games over the years, so he is probably has the best grasp on Ike. If he really doesn't like him, I guess I could see them passing. Of course, Mike seemed to like him a lot.

I have been looking for the article on here and can not find it now..........I believe it was in the same long article about the players the suns had bought in. They were talking to Van Arsdale and Griffin about the players. They talked about Ike and Petro. I sure hope I can find it again.
 

Devision

Rookie
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
50
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix
sunsfn said:
Ike had 2 workouts with the suns, the 2nd against Petro and it did not go good. I can not find the article.........I will keep trying.



-
:thumbdown

Cuz it does not exist, quit acting like a know it all, nobody knows who they are taking and maybe even the Suns. If Ike is there @ 21 and they don't take him it will be a pick they regret. Ike is only falling cuz he played @ ASU. If he had gone to UCONN or Illinois as he probably should have he would definantly go top 10....
 
OP
OP
Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

Arizona Sports Simp
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,721
Reaction score
32,852
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Devision said:
:thumbdown

Cuz it does not exist, quit acting like a know it all, nobody knows who they are taking and maybe even the Suns. If Ike is there @ 21 and they don't take him it will be a pick they regret. Ike is only falling cuz he played @ ASU. If he had gone to UCONN or Illinois as he probably should have he would definantly go top 10....

Sorry but I have to disagree. Ike is falling because of the flux of high school kids and euros. It happens every year to Juniors and Seniors. So many teams want that home run talent and potential instead of taking a solid/safe pick.

I think it will be even worse this year because of Parker and Ginobilli.
 

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
Devision said:
:thumbdown

Cuz it does not exist, quit acting like a know it all, nobody knows who they are taking and maybe even the Suns. If Ike is there @ 21 and they don't take him it will be a pick they regret. Ike is only falling cuz he played @ ASU. If he had gone to UCONN or Illinois as he probably should have he would definantly go top 10....

Get real, I have no reason to lie about any of this stuff.
I think it was Chris Sanders who bought it up the first time......!
 
OP
OP
Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

Arizona Sports Simp
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,721
Reaction score
32,852
Location
Scottsdale, Az
sunsfn said:
Get real, I have no reason to lie about any of this stuff.
I think it was Chris Sanders who bought it up the first time......!

I have seen the same article so it does exist. I just don't have the time or inclination to go searching the web for it. You don't have to believe us if you don't want to :)

I am paying close attention to news on Diogu because I definitely want him as a Sun.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Found it Sunsfn

Suns narrowing first-round candidates
By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
June 26, 2005
Which way will they go?
Much like a wine connoisseur, the Suns have been sampling both foreign and domestic brands of basketball players the past few weeks in hopes of finding a winner at No. 21 in Round 1 of Tuesday’s draft.

"We’re going in completely open-minded," said Suns president Bryan Colangelo.

A foreign player could more easily be steered toward another year of development in Europe for the upcoming season. In that case, the Suns could use the money they save on him on signing free agents (including their own Joe Johnson, a restricted free agent).

And yet, "If we feel there’s a player out there who can help us now, we’ll take that player at 21," Colangelo said.

The Suns have been focusing on about 10 to 12 players, almost evenly split between foreign and domestic, but now are narrowing the list to a handful.

The general consensus coming into the draft was that the Suns likely would go for a big man.

But with the proposed trade of Quentin Richardson to New York for big man Kurt Thomas, the Suns — all else being equal— might be more inclined to go with a perimeter player.

"All of that is being factored in," Colangelo said.

The American players under consideration include:

• Ryan Gomes, a 6-foot-7, 250-pound forward from Providence.

He’s worked out twice for the Suns, including an impressive showing on Friday.

"He has a nice shooting touch, and he gets up and down the floor well," said Suns senior executive vice president Dick Van Arsdale.

Though he is considered a "tweener" — somebody in between a "three" and "four" player — "He can play (in the NBA) right now," said David Griffin, the Suns’ director of player personnel.

• Francisco Garcia, a 6-7, 195-pound guard-forward from Louisville.

"He knows how to play," said Van Arsdale, who believes Garcia could play both guard spots and small forward.

"He sees the game. He would fit in well. He will get the ball to his teammates in the right spot at the right time."

The only problem: The Suns expect he’ll be taken by the time they draft at No. 21.

• Nate Robinson, a 5-9, 180-pound guard from Washington.

He’s jumped up on the radar screen recently. Drafting Robinson, a slightly bigger version of the dynamic Earl Boykins, would give the Suns an instant fan favorite.

"He’s high energy, he’s tough," Van Arsdale said. "He’s small, which could be a problem. But he’s interesting."

Drafting him would make things difficult for incumbent backup Leandro Barbosa.

• Wayne Simien, a 6-9, 255-pound forward from Kansas.

"An incredibly high character guy," Griffin said. "And he produced big numbers in a very good conference."

Foreign players include:

• Johan Petro, a 7-0, 247-pound center from France.

"He can block shots, he can run and he can rebound," said Marco Crespi, the Suns’ director of international scouting.

Said Van Arsdale, "He’s a good athlete, he’s long, and he has decent moves around the basket.

"You would draft him on his potential."

• Roko Ukic, a 6-5, 180-pound guard from Croatia.

"He’s a good all-around player, a tough kid who needs to get stronger," Van Arsdale said.

Said Crespi, "He’s a real point guard who can play the pick-and-roll."

But he may be gone by No. 21.

As with Robinson, a decision to draft Ukic would be bad news for Barbosa.

• Mickael Gelabale, a 6-7, 215-pound forward from France.

"He’s a very athletic ‘three’ man, an active player who can defend," Van Arsdale said.

Crespi pointed out that Gelabale enjoyed a "great season" in Spain and is now playing in that country’s championship series.

• Ersan Ilyasova, a 6-9, 235-pound small forward from Turkey.

"He’s thin and light, but his basketball IQ is very high," Crespi said. "He understands how to play."

Others possibilities include:

• Ike Diogu, the star forward from Arizona State.

He stands 6-8 in shoes, making some wonder whether he’s tall enough to play the power forward position. But this is negated somewhat by his remarkable 73-inch wingspan.

On the plus side, "I don’t think I’ve seen a guy of his size and girth shoot the ball better," Van Arsdale said.

Also, he’s smart and coachable.

"I don’t think anybody is going to make a mistake by having Ike on their team."

Maybe the main question is how he fits into the Suns’ preferred fast pace.

Said Van Arsdale, "Can he play the transition game the way we play it? He’s not that kind of player."


• David Lee, a 6-9, 250-pound forward from Florida.

• Sean May, a 6-9, 265-pound forward from North Carolina.

Most project him to go much higher than No. 21, but he could slip.

• Chris Taft, an athletic 6-10, 260-pound power forward from Pittsburgh.

Taft once was projected as a lottery pick but has slid in recent months.

He impressed the Suns with his workout on Friday. Griffin called him the best of the "bigs" to work out for the Suns.

But Taft’s work ethic has been questioned, and the Suns tend to stay away from such players.
 

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
Chris_Sanders said:
Sorry but I have to disagree. Ike is falling because of the flux of high school kids and euros. It happens every year to Juniors and Seniors. So many teams want that home run talent and potential instead of taking a solid/safe pick.

I think it will be even worse this year because of Parker and Ginobilli.

Chris,
Where is that article we read about the matchup between Ike and Petro?
 

Devision

Rookie
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
50
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix
sunsfn said:
Get real, I have no reason to lie about any of this stuff.
I think it was Chris Sanders who bought it up the first time......!

Uh, your the one who keeps bringing this thing up over and over again on this thread, I have heard alot more posative things said about Ike than Petro. The Suns better not go Euro, Sarver is already getting burned about being cheap. If they take someone and leave him over there when this team is on the cusp of a title will really sour alot of fans..
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
So it looks like Van is impressed with Ike, but doesn't think he can run.

That doesn't make any sense to me. You do not need all 5 players running at you. Ike could easily get the rebound and outlet the ball, then come up as a trailer on most fast breaks. If Ike is concentrating on the defensive glass, then Amare won't have to focus as much on it.

I also wonder when his comments were made. Why would the Suns trade for Kurt if they were worried about players fitting into the fast break scheme? Ike would be able to run better than Kurt can.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Here is an article on the workout:

Suns test Diogu against taller foe

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 20, 2005 12:00 AM

After playing across town for three years, Ike Diogu brought his repertoire downtown to the Suns staff for the second time in three days but came no closer to leaving Arizona State behind for good.

Diogu can't wait any longer than tonight. His decision of whether to stay in next week's NBA draft or return to Tempe for his senior season must be made by 2 p.m. Tuesday.

"I'll know my decision on the deadline," Diogu said. "I won't know it any sooner." advertisement




Diogu underwent a second workout for the Suns to pit him against someone more his size than his Friday foe. Phoenix hosted three other potential first-round picks Sunday - Louisville guard Francisco Garcia, Spanish guard Rudy Fernandez and French center Johan Petro.

Fernandez, 20, and Petro, 19, would be taken only with intentions of letting them develop in Europe at least one more year. If the Suns sign the 21st pick, they will have to pay that player about $1.1 million next season.

As Diogu showed his pick-and-roll defense and two-man game Sunday, Suns Managing Partner Robert Sarver and adviser/investor Steve Kerr were on hand with the usual staff.

"I hope I showed them that despite my size, I can play guys that are 2 to 3 inches bigger than me," said Diogu, who is nearly 6 feet 9 in shoes with a 7-4 wingspan.

"He showed he can be productive against NBA length and athleticism," David Griffin, Suns director of player personnel, said of Diogu's work against Petro, a 7-foot raw talent. "He's probably not as explosive as you'd like someone his size to be, but he's a lot stronger than you'd expect from someone his size.
"I wouldn't be surprised if he went back to school."

Garcia was making his second workout visit to Phoenix. He could bolster the Suns immediately, although his fit as a wing player may be tough. Garcia, 23, has midrange and long-distance accuracy. His ability to defend is questioned at 6-7 and 190 pounds, but his leadership skills are hailed after three years at Louisville.

"We would all be surprised if he's on the board when we pick," Griffin said.

"It'd be a great fit," Garcia said of Phoenix. "I like to play that style. They've got a lot of interest. I want to come here and do whatever I can to win."

Petro has lottery potential but has played basketball only seven years and has minimal high-level experience with Pau Orthez of France. He said he will remain in the draft.

Petro's offense was shaky, but Fernandez showed impressive shooting skills and decision-making after two seasons of top-level play in Barcelona, Spain. He has a long-term deal there and admitted that he needs to stay there to bulk up his 6-6, 175-pound frame. He suffered a sprained ankle during Sunday's play.
 
OP
OP
Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

Arizona Sports Simp
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,721
Reaction score
32,852
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Interesting. That is exactly opposite of what I had read in another article so disinformation is happening on some level...
 

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
Devision said:
Uh, your the one who keeps bringing this thing up over and over again on this thread, I have heard alot more posative things said about Ike than Petro. The Suns better not go Euro, Sarver is already getting burned about being cheap. If they take someone and leave him over there when this team is on the cusp of a title will really sour alot of fans..

Actually what I have done is answer the posts about Ike and Petro.

I have not said who the suns will draft because I do not know.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Chris_Sanders said:
Interesting. That is exactly opposite of what I had read in another article so disinformation is happening on some level...


Who knows. Coro would have been at the workout however, so unless the article you guys read was from a local paper I would bet on this being a more accurate description.
 
OP
OP
Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

Arizona Sports Simp
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,721
Reaction score
32,852
Location
Scottsdale, Az
sunsfn said:
Actually what I have done is answer the posts about Ike and Petro.

I have not said who the suns will draft because I do not know.

I don't know why people are freaking out about who you think the Suns will draft. The whole fun of this is trying to guess.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Chris_Sanders said:
I don't know why people are freaking out about who you think the Suns will draft. The whole fun of this is trying to guess.


Agreed.

Not everyone has to have the same opinion. Things would be boring if they did.
 
OP
OP
Chris_Sanders

Chris_Sanders

Arizona Sports Simp
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,721
Reaction score
32,852
Location
Scottsdale, Az
thegrahamcrackr said:
Who knows. Coro would have been at the workout however, so unless the article you guys read was from a local paper I would bet on this being a more accurate description.

Well hopefully this means I am completely off base and have bought into the disinformation. I really want to see Diogu as a Sun. You just can't have too many skilled big men.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Chris_Sanders said:
Well hopefully this means I am completely off base and have bought into the disinformation. I really want to see Diogu as a Sun. You just can't have too many skilled big men.


Hopefully.

I put my guess for the draft somewhere, but can't remember where anymore so I will put it back.


At 21 the Suns will take Ike.

If the move into the teens they will take Garcia.

If they move up more, I think they might be hiding their like for Graham. And yes, this is based 90% on the fact I want to be able to get a real Suns jersey that says "Graham" on the back instead of the custom made one I have now.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
We have several problems in guessing what the Suns will do:

1. We don't know who is going to be available

2. We don't know if the Suns are looking for immediate impact or long range potential

3. We don't know who they think they might get through free agency

4. We don't know which characteristics they most value
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
64,533
Reaction score
59,824
Location
SoCal
Mainstreet said:
I can't see why the Suns would want to move up in the draft unless there is an absolute star quality player they want. In this draft, the Suns would be better served to move down in the draft and pick up more picks considering the depth of this draft and the expanded roster.

If Barbosa could fetch the Suns another #1 pick (I'd have to admit) I would be inclined to bite. I'd take #19 for Barbosa.

A very good ballplayer could fall to #19.

imo barbosa has not shown enough potential to warrant garnering a draft pick that is 10 spots higher than the one he was originally drafted at. i think his value is minimal at best.
 
Top