Preseason: Suns at Clippers 10-22-14

[FutureSuperstar]

Maybe my eyes were deceiving me, but when Len was next to Hawes on the FT line, he looked at least 2 inches taller than him ... And hawes is listed at 7-1 ! Len looks HUGE out there - He seems to be moving very well considering that. That's half the battle with a big men, so that's a positive ...

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe my eyes were deceiving me, but when Len was next to Hawes on the FT line, he looked at least 2 inches taller than him ... And hawes is listed at 7-1 ! Len looks HUGE out there - He seems to be moving very well considering that. That's half the battle with a big men, so that's a positive ...

I need all the positives I can get. Len is huge but he seems slow to react.

 

[Phrazbit]

That was a long and very disheartening stint from Len. He looked exactly like he did last year. Totally clueless out there, abysmal positioning. He seems to wonder aimlessly on both ends of the court.

 

[Errntknght]

Another positive - Len has made as many 3 pointers as Tolliver!

 

[Mainstreet]

Hawes has been able to catch his own shot and Paul pushes off Bledsoe to get to the basket.

 

[Mainstreet]

Final: Clippers 108 Suns 105

 

[AzStevenCal]

Final: Clippers 108 Suns 105

The third quarter was a little boring but all told, it was a pretty fun game.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

That was a long and very disheartening stint from Len. He looked exactly like he did last year. Totally clueless out there, abysmal positioning. He seems to wonder aimlessly on both ends of the court.

I believe it was SunsTzu who so wanted the Suns to draft Steven Adams.

 

[Mainstreet]

The third quarter was a little boring but all told, it was a pretty fun game.

Steve

Unfortunately my goals for the game were not met. Tolliver did not hit a three and Len did not make a basket. I guess I asked too much.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Unfortunately my goals for the game were not met. Tolliver did not hit a three and Len did not make a basket. I guess I asked too much.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were hoping that Tolliver would hit a 3 and Len would make a basket this season. And if that had been the case, you'd still have an outside chance at getting what you wanted.

Steve

 

[FutureSuperstar]

That was a long and very disheartening stint from Len. He looked exactly like he did last year. Totally clueless out there, abysmal positioning. He seems to wonder aimlessly on both ends of the court.

Can you explain yourself a bit more? I missed the 1st half, but in the time I saw him in the 3rd quarter he didn't stand out as either "good" or "bad" . I thought his size played a factor in the paint, but he didn't stand out so much where I could reach a judgement on his play.

Based off what I saw, physically I thought he looked great though. I think if people think otherwise, they are irrationally comparing him with the other players on the Suns roster (guards and Plumlee), who are ELITE athletes. Len is an above average athlete and for his 7-2 size, I thought he looked good moving around out there.

I didn't notice any bad positioning by him. He was awkward a bit in the 3rd Q on D', but that was mainly because Griffin was spreading the court at around the 3 pt. line, so Len was in an odd situation where he was away from the basket sometimes.

 

[elindholm]

but in the time I saw him in the 3rd quarter he didn't stand out as either "good" or "bad"

At his size, if he doesn't stand out as "good," he's "bad." It's really pretty simple.

they are irrationally comparing him with the other players on the Suns roster (guards and Plumlee), who are ELITE athletes. Len is an above average athlete

The NBA game is for elite athletes, not above-average ones. Len is completely outclassed. He might be good in some absolute sense -- relative to you or I, for example -- but he's not the caliber of an NBA-level basketball player. You seem to be in denial about how good real NBA players are, and how wide the gulf is between good NBA players and Len.

Griffin was spreading the court at around the 3 pt. line, so Len was in an odd situation where he was away from the basket sometimes.

Yes, NBA players will exploit an opponent's weakness, including getting him in odd situations that are outside of his comfort zone. They are pretty skilled that way.

 

[Phrazbit]

Can you explain yourself a bit more? I missed the 1st half, but in the time I saw him in the 3rd quarter he didn't stand out as either "good" or "bad" . I thought his size played a factor in the paint, but he didn't stand out so much where I could reach a judgement on his play.

Based off what I saw, physically I thought he looked great though. I think if people think otherwise, they are irrationally comparing him with the other players on the Suns roster (guards and Plumlee), who are ELITE athletes. Len is an above average athlete and for his 7-2 size, I thought he looked good moving around out there.

I didn't notice any bad positioning by him. He was awkward a bit in the 3rd Q on D', but that was mainly because Griffin was spreading the court at around the 3 pt. line, so Len was in an odd situation where he was away from the basket sometimes.

He was rarely in position to do anything, and it did not seem like it was the Clips pulling him away from the hoop, he genuinely did not seem to know who he was guarding and instead just stood in an area... roughly 8 feet away from the rim. He did not appear to judge balls in the air well either, that seems like a trait guys have or they don't and Len was rarely in the right area for a rebound.

I don't know how you could watch that appearance and say he looked "great", and the accuse others of being irrational if they think otherwise. He did nothing out there, he was a complete non factor. 17 minutes, 3 rebounds, 3 fouls. If Earl Barron or Slavik Randolph put up those results people would be petitioning the Suns to cut them.

He continues to look slow out there, he continues to appear lost on both ends of the court. I was actually excited to turn it on and see him in the game, I watched him closely hoping he'd do something, but he looked out of place. The guy has very little basketball instincts.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He was rarely in position to do anything, and it did not seem like it was the Clips pulling him away from the hoop, he genuinely did not seem to know who he was guarding and instead just stood in an area... roughly 8 feet away from the rim. He did not appear to judge balls in the air well either, that seems like a trait guys have or they don't and Len was rarely in the right area for a rebound.

I don't know how you could watch that appearance and say he looked "great", and the accuse others of being irrational if they think otherwise. He did nothing out there, he was a complete non factor. 17 minutes, 3 rebounds, 3 fouls. If Earl Barron or Slavik Randolph put up those results people would be petitioning the Suns to cut them.

He continues to look slow out there, he continues to appear lost on both ends of the court. I was actually excited to turn it on and see him in the game, I watched him closely hoping he'd do something, but he looked out of place. The guy has very little basketball instincts.

I think your criticism is a little harsh. Not a lot, just a little. He did have some value out there today and he changed some plays. Jeff Van Gundy even mentioned that despite his cluelessness (not his word choice) he was still having a positive impact on the game with his size and ability to run the court.

But he does look lost out there most of the time. I think you can teach much of it out of him but his instincts are scary bad. A couple of times tonight he found himself alone in the key when the ball went up and then he voluntarily took a step of two closer so that he'd be directly under the rim for the rebound. What kind of guy thinks the best place to rebound is under the net? Channing used to try and rebound from there but it was because someone moved him to that spot. Len goes there on purpose.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

I think your criticism is a little harsh. Not a lot, just a little. He did have some value out there today and he changed some plays. Jeff Van Gundy even mentioned that despite his cluelessness (not his word choice) he was still having a positive impact on the game with his size and ability to run the court.

But he does look lost out there most of the time. I think you can teach much of it out of him but his instincts are scary bad. A couple of times tonight he found himself alone in the key when the ball went up and then he voluntarily took a step of two closer so that he'd be directly under the rim for the rebound. What kind of guy thinks the best place to rebound is under the net? Channing used to try and rebound from there but it was because someone moved him to that spot. Len goes there on purpose.

Steve

Yeah, thats what I was seeing too when I talked about him reading balls in the air. I know not everyone is going to be like Marion, and have some freakish cat-like instinct to know the rebound is coming off the left, 10 feet out... at a 23.4 degree angle, but just basic positioning would be nice. Len was going right under the basket and unless the ball took a very weak bounce he had little hope of rebounding. He is big enough that he should box out from 6 feet out or further and use his length to adjust. Thats something they can (hopefully) teach him, but that is the kind of thing you'd hope he wouldn't need to be taught.

 

[slinslin]

Tolliver looks absolutely useless.

That our main problem besides Markieff and Miles not exactly playing to their expected standard in preseason so far.

 

[sunsfan88]

This team, I know it's only preseason but still, looks like trash. I really hope the Chargers continue their success otherwise I'm in for a long year sports wise.

No DeAndre Jordan and yet the Clippers got just about every rebound.

Someone tell Hornacek to go to McD and slap him in the face while demanding a rim protector. This is not fair to Hornacek what so ever. We could have had Asik who would have been better off protecting the rim. Hell even Dalembert would have been a better choice than the garbage we have.

I think in order for the Suns to win any game this season, I think all 3 PGs will have to play well in each game to carry the team. Oh and Green deserves to be in the rotation.

How many times did Jeff Van Gundy (correctly) question the Suns help defense? Nobody is there to protect the paint, the second CP3 or Reddick or whoever got by the initial defender, it was a wide open layup. And no the Morris twins aren't protecting the rim, not even in your dreams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This team, I know it's only preseason but still, looks like trash. I really hope the Chargers continue their success otherwise I'm in for a long year sports wise.

No DeAndre Jordan and yet the Clippers got just about every rebound.

Someone tell Hornacek to go to McD and slap him in the face while demanding a rim protector. This is not fair to Hornacek what so ever. We could have had Asik who would have been better off protecting the rim. Hell even Dalembert would have been a better choice than the garbage we have.

I think in order for the Suns to win any game this season, I think all 3 PGs will have to play well in each game to carry the team. Oh and Green deserves to be in the rotation.

How many times did Jeff Van Gundy (correctly) question the Suns help defense? Nobody is there to protect the paint, the second CP3 or Reddick or whoever got by the initial defender, it was a wide open layup. And no the Morris twins aren't protecting the rim, not even in your dreams.

We out rebounded them, 43 to 35.

Steve

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

We out rebounded them, 43 to 35.

Steve

Hey! There is no need to come in here and start throwing facts around.

The game wasn't all gloom and doom, but Tolliver adds nothing and there were WAY too many turnovers. Just some really stupid play[s/ers] here and there.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wow. It's going to be a long year of ripping on Len.

 

[Chaplin]

Len's first game back and who does he end up guarding? Blake freaking Griffin. Yeah, this game is PERFECT to determine how Len will be this year.

 

[Chaz]

Three things I liked about Len's performance.

1. He was on the court.

2. I thought his movement was very good. Very fluid and good speed for his size.

3. He had an impact inside. He challenged shot without fouling and was having an effect inside on defense.

He kept trying to circle behind/under the basket to get to rebounds. He needs to stay out in front of the basket and use his size. One time he had perfect position and gave it up by getting too far under the basket.

Len may not make it in the NBA but it wont be because he isn't athletic enough. He is in no way outmatched physically. Thought he did a pretty good job straight up on Griffin when he was in there.

 

[SirStefan32]

Three things I liked about Len's performance.

1. He was on the court.

2. I thought his movement was very good. Very fluid and good speed for his size.

3. He had an impact inside. He challenged shot without fouling and was having an effect inside on defense.

He kept trying to circle behind/under the basket to get to rebounds. He needs to stay out in front of the basket and use his size. One time he had perfect position and gave it up by getting too far under the basket.

Len may not make it in the NBA but it wont be because he isn't athletic enough. He is in no way outmatched physically. Thought he did a pretty good job straight up on Griffin when he was in there.

I agree with your assessment. I really liked his D on a couple of isolation plays. His help D is terrible as he has no idea where to rotate to and who to pick up, but he uses his length extremely well when defending one on one.

He looks like a legitimate 7'2 Center with long arms, and he seems to be bulking up nicely. That's something you can't teach. He needs to develop a hook shot, and he needs to block out. More than anything though, he needs to learn rotations and help defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were hoping that Tolliver would hit a 3 and Len would make a basket this season. And if that had been the case, you'd still have an outside chance at getting what you wanted.

Steve

Like I said, I asked too much for one game. Perhaps I should be looking at the whole season.

 

[Mainstreet]

As others have pointed out Len looks lost out on the court. My thoughts are he does not react to the ball instinctively. If he did, with his physical measurements, he would have respectable scoring and rebounding numbers by just being on the court with clean-up duties.