Prisco thinks highly of Greg Toler

kerouac9

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Thanks for sharing. Toler has to stay healthy, but he's one of the guys who really raised the profile of Steve Keim and the Cards' scouting staff. Could easily find a 3-year, $15 million contract with $6 million guaranteed once free agency starts.

Wish we'd seen more from Jameel Fleming.
 

Goldfield

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He hasn't stayed healthy but I like Toler.
 

kerouac9

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Who was a rookie.

I have no idea why so many are writing him off so quickly.

I'm not "writing him off," and I'm not really complaining about his play, either. Mostly, I wonder why he was inactive for the last quarter of the season, and disappointed.

Sometimes it takes players longer to develop, and when that happens with a high pick, it places a team in a position of desperation. Rashad Johnson seems to have developed into a dependable-ish player, but he was so terrible his rookie year that the Cards had to trade for and pay Kerry Rhodes to replace Antrel Rolle, when the Cards had clearly hoped that they could have an Antonio Smith-to-Calais Campbell-type transition at the safety spot.

You hope for your rookies to get better over the course of their first season, not disappear.
 

RugbyMuffin

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You hope for your rookies to get better over the course of their first season, not disappear.

Agreed.

Our coaching staff never seemed to agree with that.

Whether the rookies improved or not, it was more or less who was the favorite.

The old Cardinal regime like there veteran players, to the point of failure at some spots.
 

Solar7

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I don't know enough about how Todd Bowles will run his 3-4 to know if I'm comfortable with losing Toler or not. With Gay and Fleming in the mix, I can't see us paying Toler... but they're both shaky pass-protectors and solid tacklers. Does that fit what Bowles is going to want to do?
 

Totally_Red

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What I really like about Greg is run defense as spot-lighted by Prisco in that piece. He is a solid #2 cornerback IMO and considering what is on the roster, he's one of the guys we have to retain.
 

JeffGollin

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I'm partial to CB's who can run a sub 4.5, jump thru the roof, high point the ball and stick their nose into the action. Starting with this as a "base line", the hope is that these guys can be coached to break aggressively on the ball, turn & go, look back for the deep ball etc.

Until a few years ago, it seemed as though we kept bringing in "steady Eddie" types who were a step slow, were OK (though not sensational) tacklers whose role was "not to suck." Most of these guys were #2 to a shutdown star at the other corner (like Aeneas) - & these #2 guys got regularly picked on.

The Littany: Massie, Hunter, ToasTito, Knight, Marshall, Gay.

Then there seemed to be a change in the QB's we brought in - more athletic guys like DRC, Jefferson and Toler. (& although he's a safety, Bethel fits the same mode).

Ideally, this should mean that, paired with PP21 will be a similarly talented corner that can't be effectively exploited.

I think we brought in Fleming as more of a #3 or #4 role playing corner to match up with bigger, more physical wideouts. (The other role player designed to match up with smaller, quicker slot guys was Money Mike).

Problem was that - due to departure of DRC and Jefferson and the injury to Toler, we were forced to make Gay (& to a minor extent, Fleming) our #2 corner, and IMO, this became our most vulnerable position on defense.

I hope Toler returns as a Cardinal. If he doesn't, we've got a problem at #2 CB.
 
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Chopper0080

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I hope the Cardinals can retain Toler, but hopefully both parties will consider his health when talking numbers. If not, we will be restocking the well yet again.
 

kerouac9

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I hope the Cardinals can retain Toler, but hopefully both parties will consider his health when talking numbers. If not, we will be restocking the well yet again.

Once your team has the skill position players, you should always draft a running back, cornerback, and a defensive tackle in the late rounds. Every third year, add a QB.
 

Chopper0080

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Once your team has the skill position players, you should always draft a running back, cornerback, and a defensive tackle in the late rounds. Every third year, add a QB.

I would like Poyer in round 3 but we will see. I think it will depend on Toler or if we add another vet CB in FA. I also like the idea of Mathieu in rounds 5 or 6. I think Flemming will have value this year though I can't say he will challenge Gay. Probably a #3 CB at best and maybe can develop. I think losing Toler and Gay in consecutive offseasons would be a mistake unless the Cards either draft multiple CBs this year or sign a #2 or #3 in FA.

Either way the goal should be to fill our holes rather than add to them. Losing young players is never a great option.
 

MWOOD92

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I'm not "writing him off," and I'm not really complaining about his play, either. Mostly, I wonder why he was inactive for the last quarter of the season, and disappointed.

I remember reading somewhere saying his inactivity during the last quarter was because of attitude issues. I believe it was a sub story from the AZ Cardinals website.
 

MWOOD92

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I remember reading somewhere saying his inactivity during the last quarter was because of attitude issues. I believe it was a sub story from the AZ Cardinals website.

Found it.

Rookie cornerback Jamell Fleming, however, is apparently in a totally different place. The third-round pick was a healthy scratch last week, and Horton said after Fleming was excellent early in the season (most notably in New England) his play fell off and thus, so did his playing time.

“I need him to grow-up, mature and be professional and in my opinion he’s not at that point yet,” Horton said bluntly.

Asked if he too thought he had become complacent, Fleming said “You could say that. I don’t know if I would say that myself, but something like that.”
 
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Duckjake

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I wish someone had a magic wand or some serious HGH that could make Mike Adams 3 inches taller or our other DBs play with his heart and intensity.
 

cardpa

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Wonder how some of those other guys are that Prisco mentioned. They would certainly fill some needs on the Cardinals like Guard, OLB (and a pass rusher) and of course RB.
 
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