Probably Most Watched REgular Season Game

[dreamcastrocks]

If I were the Lakers, I'd sit Kobe.

 

[D-Dogg]

Not really. Gasol's a bad matchup against stronger, bigger forward types that like to establish position deep on the block. Amare has never been a big banger and rarely boxes out. Gasol is agile enough to stay with him, especially if Amare starts playing a more perimeter oriented game with his transition to the 4.

Completely disagree. You and I both watch every Laker game, so I know you've seen how he plays against the "power" guys like Dwight...he put him in foul trouble. I expect he'll do the same with Shaq.

The thing is, Pau isn't on Amare (at least to start the game). Lamar is likely going to pull that duty and that's terrible, but I don't see Phil starting Ronny.

When Pau moves to Amare when Shaq sits, look for amare to jab step Pau to death...

On the flip side, the Kobe/Pau two man game is going to hurt shaq's brain.

 

[BeeBeard]

Your both wrong. There is no reason. Shaq was brought in here to help. If it doesn't work out the animosity will be towards Sarver and D'Antoni. This difference in the Suns situation is everybody knows this is a gamble. Everybody knows about the health and age issues.

We know what we are getting into when Shaq was brought here. If it doesn't work out the Suns fans will view this as a failed trade like so many before. There will be no extra animosity towards Shaq IMO.



Have you ever watched Gasol play against Amare? In the past Amare has eaten him alive. Besides the Suns are still going to the pick and roll with Amare and he will continue to play around the basket. Amare is not going to become a jump shooter. Let's see soft Gasol try and keep Amare away from the bucket.

Couldn't agree more. I've had my eye on Gasol since he came into the league. In those days he was a soft, agile finesse player and a weak defensive presence and....he hasn't changed much at all. He's got 20-30 pounds of muscle on him now, and the agility is definitely still there even after his injuries, but his defense is still terrible no matter who he faces.

Gasol is essentially a poor man's version of Dirk Nowitzski. He's got a nice shooting stroke and decent low post moves on a big man's body, but when it comes to banging around the rim he is soft, soft, soft.

Mark my words, Gasol is about to learn just how tough it's been for Amare, when you have to play the 5 and match up against a legitimate 5, even though you're more of a 4. We're going to see a HUGE game from Shaq in his limited time on the floor.

 

[D-Dogg]

Your both wrong. There is no reason. Shaq was brought in here to help. If it doesn't work out the animosity will be towards Kerr, Sarver and D'Antoni. This difference in the Suns situation is everybody knows this is a gamble. Everybody knows about the health and age issues.

We know what we are getting into when Shaq was brought here. If it doesn't work out the Suns fans will view this as a failed trade like so many before. There will be no extra animosity towards Shaq IMO.

I think you may be right, but it's just as likely that if things go south, Shaq will catch blame and the "we should have kept marion" contingent will pile on. But yes, people realize it is a high-risk, high-reward move for Kerr.

 

[KloD]

I'm pretty sure the Fakers have a message board or two for their fans to profess their Kobe love. WTF, do you think Suns fans give a rats ass about your hard on for the man? Go there, brag about others pasts, about accomplishments you had absolutely nothing to do with. Tell them all about how you picked your favorite team when they were winning championships... wow what an accomplishment for you!

 

[BeeBeard]

I think you may be right, but it's just as likely that if things go south, Shaq will catch blame and the "we should have kept marion" contingent will pile on. But yes, people realize it is a high-risk, high-reward move for Kerr.

I don't think any educated basketball fan who knew about Marion's situation would jump on some kind of "We should have kept Marion" bandwagon. The fact is, Marion had to go, for reasons that have been covered in depth many times before on this board. Now, whether or not the Suns could have done better in a trade for Marion will apparently be a hot topic even if Shaq works out great for the Suns and Phoenix wins a championship this season. People just love playing the "What if?" game.

edit:

I'm pretty sure the Fakers have a message board or two for their fans to profess their Kobe love. WTF, do you think Suns fans give a rats ass about your hard on for the man? Go there, brag about others pasts, about accomplishments you had absolutely nothing to do with. Tell them all about how you picked your favorite team when they were winning championships... wow what an accomplishment for you!

You see Donald? While it's not your fault that the Lakers message boards are terrible, that still doesn't change the fact that your presence is barely tolerated here. I picture entire threads filled with nothing but poetry dedicated to man crushes on Kobe Bryant: "His eyes, like gleaming coals, discerning the movement of the ball..."

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ah, Shaq bamboozled you as well? By the time his career his over, Phoenix will have more animosity towards Shaq than Laker/Orlando fans had. Enjoy The Big Decline.

We traded a very good role player for him. We expect him to be a team player, a role player, and be a positive presence in the locker room. I would think everything depends on your expectations to start.

Isn't the animosity that those fans have toward Shaq due to the fact that he left, and they never competed for a championship after he was gone.

I think its pretty likely that Phoenix is Shaq's last stop, unless in two years he becomes valuable as the Really Big Expiring.

 

[abomb]

The Lakers suck...and Kobe's a Rapist

How's that abomb?

You need new writers.

 

[Ode to Ocho]

We traded a very good role player for him. We expect him to be a team player, a role player, and be a positive presence in the locker room. I would think everything depends on your expectations to start.

Marion is more than a 'role player'. Marion is an all-star with or without Steve Nash.

Isn't the animosity that those fans have toward Shaq due to the fact that he left, and they never competed for a championship after he was gone.

No not at all.

I think its pretty likely that Phoenix is Shaq's last stop, unless in two years he becomes valuable as the Really Big Expiring.

Nice, you guys already have the "Shaq was nothing but a salary dump" excuse que'd up.

 

[Ode to Ocho]

Completely disagree. You and I both watch every Laker game, so I know you've seen how he plays against the "power" guys like Dwight...he put him in foul trouble. I expect he'll do the same with Shaq.

Uh, we were talking about DEFENSE. I know Pau put Howard in foul trouble and thats where Pau's advantage vs Amare AND Shaq will be. But you do realize Dwight shot 100% against Pau, right? Or that Al Horford grabbed 20 rebounds with Pau guarding him most of the night, right?

The thing is, Pau isn't on Amare (at least to start the game). Lamar is likely going to pull that duty and that's terrible, but I don't see Phil starting Ronny.

Well a few things:

1) Shaq will not get heavy minutes. So Pau will be guarding Amare for a good part of the game

2) If Lamar is guarding Amare, that means Shaq is in the game and Amare is playing power forward. Amare isn't a very physical on the block and his post game is limited. Lamar can handle him for a few minutes IMO at the 4. The key is not double teaming Shaq, which I don't think the Lakers will have to do.

When Pau moves to Amare when Shaq sits, look for amare to jab step Pau to death...

Amare is a great player, but he is at his best when he is feeding off Steve Nash. Pau has a much more dangerous face up/post game than Amare does, that much is for sure. If anything, Pau will be 'jab stepping' Amare to death. If I'm the Lakers, I dare Amare to shoot his little 15 foot jumper. Pau can just sag off of him.

 

[nowagimp]

Marion is more than a 'role player'. Marion is an all-star with or without Steve Nash.



No not at all.



Nice, you guys already have the "Shaq was nothing but a salary dump" excuse que'd up.

I guess it has nothing to do at all with the fact that the lakers havent even won a playoff series(in spite of Dick Bavetas best efforts) without the diesel, while the diesel has another championship. Yeah, no hard feelings, none at all. Buffalo chips dude!

 

[BeeBeard]

No not at all.

I'm not buying this at all. The Lakers haven't even won a playoff series let alone another championship since Kobe pitched a hissy fit and turned L.A. into a "him or me" trade fiasco. Well, as a matter of business, you kept the younger player and look what it's gotten you? No playoff victories, no nothing. Just a lot of animosity towards the man in the middle you think is responsible for your current misfortune. Is it just easier to blame a player who hasn't been on your team in 6 years than it is to blame a prima donna like Kobe Bryant?

Nice, you guys already have the "Shaq was nothing but a salary dump" excuse que'd up.

Careful reading would be helpful. The man is talking about the fact that whether or not Shaq wants to continue with his career and wants to either stay with the Suns or be traded away is a decision that will be up to him when the time comes. That has no bearing on the reasons for trading for Shaq in the first place.

!Ocho tiene nada!

 

[Covert Rain]

Uh, we were talking about DEFENSE. I know Pau put Howard in foul trouble and thats where Pau's advantage vs Amare AND Shaq will be.

Again, you have not watched many of the matchups in the past then. You better hope the matchups are not like in the past. When PG has been on Amare it's been the opposite. He has gotten Pau in foul trouble. Pau cannot guard Amare on the defensive end. Period. The only thing Pau can hope for is that he is able to match Amare's output on the offensive end or hope he is not matched up against him much.

I don't care how much you think Amare doesn't have a back to the basket game or is lack of battleing under the bucket. PG is as soft as they come for a big man so he will probably make Amare look huge around the bucket.

If I'm the Lakers, I dare Amare to shoot his little 15 foot jumper. Pau can just sag off of him.

What the hell are taking about? Teams have been daring Amare to shoot that all season and he is hitting it with a high percentage. Because PG is guarding him all the sudden it's not going to fall? Are you serious?

Boy I hope Paul does sag off Amare...please.

 

[D-Dogg]

I don't think any educated basketball fan who knew about Marion's situation would jump on some kind of "We should have kept Marion" bandwagon. The fact is, Marion had to go, for reasons that have been covered in depth many times before on this board. Now, whether or not the Suns could have done better in a trade for Marion will apparently be a hot topic even if Shaq works out great for the Suns and Phoenix wins a championship this season. People just love playing the "What if?" game.

Do you have any clue what the percentage of educated bball fans are out of the entire fan population? I'm guessing surprisingly low, based off of comments at places like ESPN and the like.

Marion did have to go...that won't stop people from complaining. Like you said about What if game, people also like to play the bitch and moan game. Hell, we laker fans did it quite well with Bynum up until this season.

You see Donald? While it's not your fault that the Lakers message boards are terrible, that still doesn't change the fact that your presence is barely tolerated here.

I really, truly could not care less.

 

[D-Dogg]

Uh, we were talking about DEFENSE. I know Pau put Howard in foul trouble and thats where Pau's advantage vs Amare AND Shaq will be. But you do realize Dwight shot 100% against Pau, right? Or that Al Horford grabbed 20 rebounds with Pau guarding him most of the night, right?

Horford is not a power guy. He's agile and fast and ate Pau up. He killed Pau on the jab step/go low move, facing him up. That's what Amare will do.

Dwight shot 100% but did not get easy looks and a bunch of dunks. Have you watched Dwight? Dude is ridiculous. Look, both of us know how much Bynum dunks...the only guy dunking more than Drew is Dwight. By a wide margin (before Bynum's knee).

Amare is a great player, but he is at his best when he is feeding off Steve Nash. Pau has a much more dangerous face up/post game than Amare does, that much is for sure. If anything, Pau will be 'jab stepping' Amare to death. If I'm the Lakers, I dare Amare to shoot his little 15 foot jumper. Pau can just sag off of him.

I agree in that what Pau lacks in defense, he makes up for in offense, especially the p&r with Kobe. But I would not dare Amare to shoot the jumper, not this year. He is solid at that. It is one of the areas he's really improved (a suns fan could give you specifics).

 

[Covert Rain]

But I would not dare Amare to shoot the jumper, not this year. He is solid at that. It is one of the areas he's really improved (a suns fan could give you specifics).

One voice of reason amongst a sea of Laker idiots. I wish more Lakers fans were like you Donald. Then I might actually like more then a couple of you.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not really. Gasol's a bad matchup against stronger, bigger forward types that like to establish position deep on the block. Amare has never been a big banger and rarely boxes out. Gasol is agile enough to stay with him, especially if Amare starts playing a more perimeter oriented game with his transition to the 4.

lol, you've never watched amare against gasol, have you? go back and watch amare undress gasol in the playoffs a few years ago. not only that, but amare's gotten craftier and his outside shot is better, which means luring gasol outside so that amare can blow by him.

i think the two teams match up closely, but this is one mismatch that is grossly in the suns' favor. you're showing your ignorance in your quoted post.

 

[D-Dogg]

Isn't the animosity that those fans have toward Shaq due to the fact that he left, and they never competed for a championship after he was gone.

No, Laker fan animosity is because he demanded more money while being the highest paid in the L, yelled "Pay Me Muffer" at the owner during a preseason game, was fat and lazy and out of shape and was already showing signs of decline....then he goes to Miami and gets in the best shape he'd been in for 3 years and takes $10 million a year less than he demanded from the Lakers...where he would have stayed if he had done the same two things for us.

That is why he pisses off a lot of Laker fans. As funny as he is, he's also a major league dick and malcontent unless every ounce of attention is doled on him, and paired with Kobe's "I'm the best" attitude and general bitchiness, I'm surprised one didn't murder the other during "the fued."

 

[nowagimp]

Horford is not a power guy. He's agile and fast and ate Pau up.

Lets not be totally blinded here. Horoford is a physical specimen by all scouting reports, and by my eye as well. Grabbing 20 rebounds against skinny weakling gasol is not a finesse operation. Rebounding is about controlling real estate under the board, ask any big man. Guys like charles oakley are perfect examples of nonathletic rebounders. Gasol cant control space in the paint against a stud like horoford, no way. The strength disparity is pretty ridiculuous.

 

[D-Dogg]

Careful reading would be helpful.

You should do so. Start with "The Show." Kobe's hissy fit to ESPN was warranted. He had his issues, but Saint Shaq had as many or more.

LA couldn't have three egos the size of Kobe, Shaq and Phil...they split up, and two egos got back together.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Marion is more than a 'role player'. Marion is an all-star with or without Steve Nash.



No not at all.



Nice, you guys already have the "Shaq was nothing but a salary dump" excuse que'd up.

this board has long ago come to the realization that marion is a role player. it had nothing to do with the trade. he's possibly the best role player of all time, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a role player. and marion was likely never to be an all-star in the west again with the emergence of all the talent in the west. in fact, i'll be slightly surprised if he's a regular all-star in the east, even with it's relative dearth of talent.

 

[nowagimp]

As funny as he is, he's also a major league dick and malcontent unless every ounce of attention is doled on him, and paired with Kobe's "I'm the best" attitude and general bitchiness, I'm surprised one didn't murder the other during "the fued."

Ask any NBA type who is the better team player, kobe or shaq? Shaq plays well with others and takes responsibility, kobe blames others for failure and resorts to gunning. But I realize he is a laker and his poop dont stink in lakerland.

 

[nowagimp]

LA couldn't have three egos the size of Kobe, Shaq and Phil...they split up, and two egos got back together.

Yeah Phil agreed that 10 mil per was an adequate babysitting fee for kobe. Hey I can get back together too for 10 mil(highest paid coach ever?).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Amare is a great player, but he is at his best when he is feeding off Steve Nash. Pau has a much more dangerous face up/post game than Amare does, that much is for sure. If anything, Pau will be 'jab stepping' Amare to death. If I'm the Lakers, I dare Amare to shoot his little 15 foot jumper. Pau can just sag off of him.

i cannot believe how little you know about amare considering how many games of his you had to have watched. it is only the very large athletic physical guys that give amare fits. there aren't a lot of those. amazingly enough you guys had two of 'em in bynum and (gasp) kwame, but now you have soft gasol and soft odom guarding him. donald is right, here's the mismatch.

 

[D-Dogg]

Lets not be totally blinded here. Horoford is a physical specimen by all scouting reports, and by my eye as well. Grabbing 20 rebounds against skinny weakling gasol is not a finesse operation. Rebounding is about controlling real estate under the board, ask any big man. Guys like charles oakley are perfect examples of nonathletic rebounders. Gasol cant control space in the paint against a stud like horoford, no way. The strength disparity is pretty ridiculuous.

Not that he's not a strong guy, but he's athletic as hell. A freak. Horford was facing Pau up though, not overpowering him.


I was actually thinking about Al Harrington though, in the Minny game. He was working Pau and it wasn't size that had Pau reeling, it was Al's quicks that made Pau look like he was nailed to the floor a couple of times.