Pugh on OL play

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Well, he is right that we don't know the assignments and who is making the mistake. A lot of mistakes are being made though. I don't expect Pugh to just come out and say who made them. With that said, if he is going to tell us 'Don't blame us, you don't know what's going on.' then tell us what is going on. If you have the insight, share.

Not sure what Pugh gained here other than sounding bitter. When put in a lose lose situation like he was. He probably should have taken the high road.

Pugh was not trying to suggest that the line isn't doing things wrong. He is simply stating that not every little thing that goes wrong on offense is on the lineman, but the fans tend to blame the lineman for just about every stuffed run or sack when it could be many other things that lead to the negative play.

As to the way he sounds, did you actually hear the soundbite? It's my understanding that he wasn't saying these things in an upset tone or anything, but was simply trying to explain why not everything is on the lineman.

 

[cardsfanmd]

He’s always crying about something. Maybe if he spent less time making excuses, he would have more time to hone his craft and improvise his performance. I can’t wait for this guy to leave. Worst free agent signing in years.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I don't know what this means.

I'm guessing that you are agreeing with me that most of the pass protection blame so far this season is split pretty evenly between the line and Kyler Murray.

lol..

If KM "contributes to the pressure he is seeing", is he the only QB in the league to to which this applies?

Or is every QB liable, to some degree, when they take a sack?

It's so ridiculous man.

 

[kerouac9]

lol..

If KM "contributes to the pressure he is seeing", is he the only QB in the league to to which this applies?

Or is every QB liable, to some degree, when they take a sack?

It's so ridiculous man.

Mobile QBs who jitterbug around the pocket more frequently run themselves into sacks. This was discussed throroughly in the offseason when some people were saying Actually, it's easier to block for a dual threat QB.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Mobile QBs who jitterbug around the pocket more frequently run themselves into sacks. This was discussed throroughly in the offseason when some people were saying Actually, it's easier to block for a dual threat QB.

Perhaps.

But What about QBs who are immobile, and unable to move away from pressure? Does that contribute to their likelihood of being sacked?

Which one is more liable for getting sacked? Statues, or jitterbugs?

What if, for example, Rosen had been our QB these first three games, and had had as many pass attempts as Murray has.

Do you think he would have been sacked sixteen times by this point?

 

[kerouac9]

Perhaps.

But What about QBs who are immobile, and unable to move away from pressure? Does that contribute to their likelihood of being sacked?

Which one is more liable for getting sacked? Statues, or jitterbugs?

What if, for example, Rosen had been our QB these first three games, and had had as many pass attempts as Murray has.

Do you think he would have been sacked sixteen times by this point?

Why are you so obsessed with Josh Rosen? He's not on this team anymore. Geez.

By the logic of the NFL, pocket passers are preferable because they have a more predictable drop point and offensive linemen know, from down to down, what space they need to defend.

 

[football karma]

But so far it looks to me like there's more room to run this year than last due to scheme,

no question about this

but in 2015 / 2016 DJ was either flat our making a guy miss, or, running through a tackle and then accelerating into space. Just haven't seen that this year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Great QB's make their OL better. I've had 3 knee surgeries and I could out run Tom Brady, but he doesn't get sacked that much. he reads the defense, he gets the ball out fast, he knows where pressure comes from etc. Now he's an EXTREME outlier, nobody is saying Murray should be close to that right now. But he absolutely is taking sacks that are his fault. It's a learning thing. In game 1 he tried to make a play and threw a pick instead of throwing it away. In game 3 he ran out of bounds instead of throwing it away. Hopefully game 4 he throws it away.

Right now the problem is lots of his sacks are big losses because he's going backwards or sideways.

The OL is not good either, but I think it it's a team thing I think the OL has to be better, Kyler has to be better, DJ has to be better etc.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Why are you so obsessed with Josh Rosen? He's not on this team anymore. Geez.

By the logic of the NFL, pocket passers are preferable because they have a more predictable drop point and offensive linemen know, from down to down, what space they need to defend.

Wow. I used him as an example of a relatively immobile QB. But I think you knew that, and now you're just being silly.

So, in the tradition of Willy Wonka saying good bye to young Charlie Bucket, I will bid you good day sir.

I said good day!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Great QB's make their OL better. I've had 3 knee surgeries and I could out run Tom Brady, but he doesn't get sacked that much. he reads the defense, he gets the ball out fast, he knows where pressure comes from etc. Now he's an EXTREME outlier, nobody is saying Murray should be close to that right now. But he absolutely is taking sacks that are his fault. It's a learning thing. In game 1 he tried to make a play and threw a pick instead of throwing it away. In game 3 he ran out of bounds instead of throwing it away. Hopefully game 4 he throws it away.

Right now the problem is lots of his sacks are big losses because he's going backwards or sideways.

The OL is not good either, but I think it it's a team thing I think the OL has to be better, Kyler has to be better, DJ has to be better etc.

careful... you sound like a complaining, whining Bagdad Bob who needs to scuttle back in the shadows, Russ.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Great QB's make their OL better. I've had 3 knee surgeries and I could out run Tom Brady, but he doesn't get sacked that much. he reads the defense, he gets the ball out fast, he knows where pressure comes from etc. Now he's an EXTREME outlier, nobody is saying Murray should be close to that right now. But he absolutely is taking sacks that are his fault. It's a learning thing. In game 1 he tried to make a play and threw a pick instead of throwing it away. In game 3 he ran out of bounds instead of throwing it away. Hopefully game 4 he throws it away.

Right now the problem is lots of his sacks are big losses because he's going backwards or sideways.

The OL is not good either, but I think it it's a team thing I think the OL has to be better, Kyler has to be better, DJ has to be better etc.

The only defense I have for Murray is that his WR's are running the wrong routes. You can see him 'talking' to the WR's after drives....he's yelling 'Where are you going?'
It seems he knows the plays and the routes and some of the WR's don't. They run their route, but after a certain time they are supposed to break off and go to route 2 and they aren't.

It's very evident watching KM getting on the WR's that they don't know the routes as well as they should AND he's had protection problems ...again you can see him 'talking' to the O line players 1 on 1.

I don't know if Keim will have another shot at revamping the O line, but he has totally failed so far at all the trench positions (o and d)

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Pugh was not trying to suggest that the line isn't doing things wrong. He is simply stating that not every little thing that goes wrong on offense is on the lineman, but the fans tend to blame the lineman for just about every stuffed run or sack when it could be many other things that lead to the negative play.

As to the way he sounds, did you actually hear the soundbite? It's my understanding that he wasn't saying these things in an upset tone or anything, but was simply trying to explain why not everything is on the lineman.

I did. I got what he was saying. At the same time, I think it is pretty clear that no one is only blaming the offensive line here. When you can't run the ball and when you give up as many sacks as you can. That's never a good thing for the offense. Even if DJ isn't his former self, or Murray is scrambling into sacks etc.

 

[Russ Smith]

The only defense I have for Murray is that his WR's are running the wrong routes. You can see him 'talking' to the WR's after drives....he's yelling 'Where are you going?'
It seems he knows the plays and the routes and some of the WR's don't. They run their route, but after a certain time they are supposed to break off and go to route 2 and they aren't.

It's very evident watching KM getting on the WR's that they don't know the routes as well as they should AND he's had protection problems ...again you can see him 'talking' to the O line players 1 on 1.

I don't know if Keim will have another shot at revamping the O line, but he has totally failed so far at all the trench positions (o and d)

agreed I see him doing that too.

Even there though at a certain point he needs to step up into the pocket and throw the ball away or run. What he's been doing too often is backing up or going sideways. I don't see it as like Kolb where he just seemed afraid, I see it as a guy who played just over 1 year in college where he was able to just outrun defenders so he's still figuring out I can't do that in the NFL. He showed improvement in the first half last week, took off and ran several times. What we really want to see now IMO is him stepping up in the pocket and throwing the ball.

It sounds dumb but Seattle will be a great chance for him to be really watching the way Wilson plays. That should be a goal for him, at some point in my career I want to have that level of command where I'm stepping up and making plays. It's a process and he played so little in college he's probably starting a bit behind.

 

[ARZCardinals]

agreed I see him doing that too.

Even there though at a certain point he needs to step up into the pocket and throw the ball away or run. What he's been doing too often is backing up or going sideways. I don't see it as like Kolb where he just seemed afraid, I see it as a guy who played just over 1 year in college where he was able to just outrun defenders so he's still figuring out I can't do that in the NFL. He showed improvement in the first half last week, took off and ran several times. What we really want to see now IMO is him stepping up in the pocket and throwing the ball.

It sounds dumb but Seattle will be a great chance for him to be really watching the way Wilson plays. That should be a goal for him, at some point in my career I want to have that level of command where I'm stepping up and making plays. It's a process and he played so little in college he's probably starting a bit behind.

100% agree

 

[Chopper0080]

lol..

If KM "contributes to the pressure he is seeing", is he the only QB in the league to to which this applies?

Or is every QB liable, to some degree, when they take a sack?

It's so ridiculous man.

They are complimentary to each other.

The line or the QB calls out the protection calls. This ensures that both know who the line is responsible to block and where the free rusher should come from should the defense bring more players than linemen. The unblocked man is the responsibility of the QB either by hot route, audible, or moving.

The line can only block for so long. It is up to the QB to get rid of the ball based upon his own pocket awareness. If he feels it is blocked up, he can hold the ball longer. If he feels pressure, he can scramble or get rid of the ball.

The big difference is that the QB has the power to audible and the OL does not. This means if the OL is put in a negative play based on the defensive front, they are dependent on the QB to audible them out of it.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

They are complimentary to each other.

The line or the QB calls out the protection calls. This ensures that both know who the line is responsible to block and where the free rusher should come from should the defense bring more players than linemen. The unblocked man is the responsibility of the QB either by hot route, audible, or moving.

The line can only block for so long. It is up to the QB to get rid of the ball based upon his own pocket awareness. If he feels it is blocked up, he can hold the ball longer. If he feels pressure, he can scramble or get rid of the ball.

The big difference is that the QB has the power to audible and the OL does not. This means if the OL is put in a negative play based on the defensive front, they are dependent on the QB to audible them out of it.

Sorry for calling you baghdad bob.

Have a good evening Chopper.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Great QB's make their OL better. I've had 3 knee surgeries and I could out run Tom Brady, but he doesn't get sacked that much. he reads the defense, he gets the ball out fast, he knows where pressure comes from etc. Now he's an EXTREME outlier, nobody is saying Murray should be close to that right now. But he absolutely is taking sacks that are his fault. It's a learning thing. In game 1 he tried to make a play and threw a pick instead of throwing it away. In game 3 he ran out of bounds instead of throwing it away. Hopefully game 4 he throws it away.

Right now the problem is lots of his sacks are big losses because he's going backwards or sideways.

The OL is not good either, but I think it it's a team thing I think the OL has to be better, Kyler has to be better, DJ has to be better etc.

On the plus side 5 of the 8 sacks were for a loss of 4 or fewer yards (4, 3, 2, 1 and 1).

The two for -1 are really no worse than an incompletion and the one for -2 was where he should have thrown it away, but went out of bounds.

Unfortunately two of the ones for a big loss happened on 1 drive in the 4th quarter. If he can find a way to avoid the big losses and throw the ball out instead of running out the sacks wouldn't have been much of an issue.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sorry for calling you baghdad bob.

Have a good evening Chopper.

No worries.

 

[bojack]

The tough part about judging the oline play is we don't know what protections are being called for the plays and how often KM is changing the protections at the line. Another reason is it seems like KM is afraid to stay in and climb the pocket. When he retreats he makes it way harder for the line to protect him.