Putting a bow on some topics.

[Chopper0080]

Just a thought, here is a reference that folks can view regarding some played out debates on this board.

1-Drew Stanton is not a better QB than Carson Palmer. That doesn't mean he can't win games, just that he isn't a better QB.

2-Logan Thomas is not a better QB than Drew Stanton. That doesn't mean me may not develop into a better one, but he isn't yet.

3-Jonathan Cooper is not a better football player than either Ted Larsen or Paul Fanaika at this point in time in the eyes of Bruce Arians. That is why he isn't playing. Better luck next year, or this year if Fanaika or Larsen get injured.

4-Patrick Peterson is really, really good. That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve, but that need to improve doesn't mean he isn't really, really good.

5-John Carlson, Rob Housler, Ted Larsen, and Paul Fanaika are what they are. You can blame Steve Keim for not having better options on the roster but these guys have already played their best football. Dogging them isn't going to change it, and their aren't many options to improve it at this point. If you are asking these guys to be big contributors, this is the level of play you are going to get.

6-Bruce Arians has been developing gameplans, and calling plays longer than some folks on this board have been alive. His playcalls are solid, he rarely makes mistakes, and a lack of execution is not his fault. He isn't perfect, but no one is. Calling out his playcalling is stupid.

***EDITED***

 

[MadCardDisease]

Either way, Cooper is not getting into the starting lineup unless an injury occurs this year.

Our QB just got injured... Does that count?

 

[Jasper]

Drew Stanton is not better than Carson Palmer.

Was Kurt Warner not better than Trent Green?
Was Tom Brady not better than Drew Bledsoe?

 

[football karma]

re:

4. TEs All i want is a few passes a game like the last to Carlson, or the one to Nicklas -- those play action passes where the TE picks up 12-15 yards and forces the defense to think about them.

pass rushers: Alex Okefor. He wont be Von Miller, but he looks like a pretty solid, all around, physical OLB. Kareem Martin-- some flashes. I want to see more.

 

[TJ]

Just a thought, here is a reference that folks can view regarding some played out debates on this board.

1-Drew Stanton is not a better QB than Carson Palmer.

Agree. Stanton struggles with intermediate throws that Palmer can make with his eyes closed.

2-Jonathan Cooper is either ...

A. not getting in the lineup because the coaches believe that continuity is more important than talent on the offensive line

Or

B. not more talented than either Ted Larsen or Paul Fanaika.

Either way, Cooper is not getting into the starting lineup unless an injury occurs this year.

I'm going with A until 2015. If Cooper were a healthy scratch this season a la Williams last year, then I know he's truly in the dog house permanently.

3-Patrick Peterson is really, really good. That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve, but that need to improve doesn't mean he isn't really, really good.

Agree. Now that PP21 has had two great games in a row, the haterade will stop flowing as fast.

4-John Carlson, Rob Housler, Ted Larsen, Paul Fanaika, and the pass rushers are what they are. You can blame Steve Keim for not having better options on the roster but these guys have already played their best football. Dogging them isn't going to change it, and their aren't many options to improve it at this point. If you are that far down on the depth chart, you just have to overcome it.

With the exception of pass rusher, we don't have any injuries at the aforementioned positions. Tight ends are just underwhelming. The Larsen over Cooper experiment was cute at first, but is now becoming a potential liability; and Fanaika is making a case to be benched, as well.

5-Bruce Arians has been developing gameplans, and calling plays longer than some folks on this board have been alive. His playcalls are solid, he rarely makes mistakes, and a lack of execution is not his fault. He isn't perfect, but no one is. Calling out his playcalling is stupid.

No argument here. What I like about him versus other coaches is that he's super aggressive.

 

[Chopper0080]

Our QB just got injured... Does that count?

Dick.

 

[Chopper0080]

Drew Stanton is not better than Carson Palmer.

Was Kurt Warner not better than Trent Green?
Was Tom Brady not better than Drew Bledsoe?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

 

[Buckybird]

Just a thought, here is a reference that folks can view regarding some played out debates on this board.

1-Drew Stanton is not a better QB than Carson Palmer.

2-Jonathan Cooper is either ...

A. not getting in the lineup because the coaches believe that continuity is more important than talent on the offensive line

Or

B. not more talented than either Ted Larsen or Paul Fanaika.

Either way, Cooper is not getting into the starting lineup unless an injury occurs this year.

3-Patrick Peterson is really, really good. That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve, but that need to improve doesn't mean he isn't really, really good.

4-John Carlson, Rob Housler, Ted Larsen, Paul Fanaika, and the pass rushers are what they are. You can blame Steve Keim for not having better options on the roster but these guys have already played their best football. Dogging them isn't going to change it, and their aren't many options to improve it at this point. If you are that far down on the depth chart, you just have to overcome it.

5-Bruce Arians has been developing gameplans, and calling plays longer than some folks on this board have been alive. His playcalls are solid, he rarely makes mistakes, and a lack of execution is not his fault. He isn't perfect, but no one is. Calling out his playcalling is stupid.

100% agree on all comments. Especially those regarding BA. We left 2 or 3 TDs at least on the field because of execution yesterday.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Palmer did miss some deep throws but I think the team needs to take stock in Smokey's TD and Floyd needs to regain his early season JuJu and become a playmaker again!

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

You must be registered for see images

 

[MrYeahBut]

I sure would feel a little better if there was some semblance of a ground game. As opposed to years past, I remain optimistic however.

 

[cardncubfan]

Excellent post Chopper. Spot on imo.

 

[Catfish]

Chopper, Well said-----I have never been more proud of you than I am right now. You are a true Cardinals fan, and even better as an analyst. Thank you my friend for clearing up those points so masterfully. And-----by the way, hang on, for this ride is going to be something VERY special. Not that it hasn't been already.

 

[TRW]

Drew Stanton is not a better QB than Carson Palmer.

Nice post, as usual, Chopper, especially this ^^

Not only did they get Palmer AFTER they had Drew, they gave him a huge extension. Seems that BA&SK believe this also.

Drew is a capable backup and we will see in 7 more games what he really is. If he turns out to be Tom Brady or Kurt Warner that would be awesome! At 30years old I have my doubts that would turn out to be the case.

As to the rest, spot on summation of the regurgitation in a multitude of threads on those multiple topics.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

1-Drew Stanton is not a better QB than Carson Palmer.




2-Jonathan Cooper is either ...

A. not getting in the lineup because the coaches believe that continuity is more important than talent on the offensive line

Or

B. not more talented than either Ted Larsen or Paul Fanaika.

Either way, Cooper is not getting into the starting lineup unless an injury occurs this year.

Right now Jonathan Cooper has:

B U S _ in the game of word hangman.

He has one more chance, which will more than likely be next year, to prove he is not a HUGE bust. He is currently being beat out by an undrafted free agent, and a journeyman. Same goes for Earl Watford.


3-Patrick Peterson is really, really good. That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve, but that need to improve doesn't mean he isn't really, really good.

- I hope teams keep throwing it at Patrick Peterson. I hope they are that dumb.

- Peterson is such a huge part of this team it is ridiculous. Can he improve ? Yes. But, can't everyone improve ?

- Evaluating ANY defensive back in this league, this season, is a waste of time. New rules dictate new expectations in my opinion. I read somewhere that a poster thinks the game is setup to try and stop offenses from scoring ? I could not really disagree more with any statement that I have heard in all of 2014. It is quite the opposite. If an NFL team's QB makes the right throw, accurately every time, then his offense will complete every pass, IMO. The defense really doesn't have a chance anymore unless there is a minor slip up, IMHO.


4-John Carlson, Rob Housler, Ted Larsen, Paul Fanaika, and the pass rushers are what they are. You can blame Steve Keim for not having better options on the roster but these guys have already played their best football. Dogging them isn't going to change it, and their aren't many options to improve it at this point. If you are that far down on the depth chart, you just have to overcome it.

- John Carlson: Really ? What is the complaint here ? Guy is without a doubt our best tight end, and the best tight end the Cardinals have had in a long time. He blocks well, catches the ball well (not great), and plays a lot of snaps. Carlson better be in the plans for the future, IMO.

- Rob "The Dude" Housler: gone in the offseason. Bust. Larry Fitzgerald does a better job blocking DE's.

- Ted Larson, Paul Fanaika: If they are so bad why can't Cooper beat them out. They are doing a good job, and unlike in year's past, the Cardinals are paying them practically peanuts to play for them. This is not the travesty that was Daryn College and Adam Snyder. Far from it. Cooper is the biggest problem with the guards, IMO. Larson, and Fanaika hold the situation steady and can be easily replaced. Finally, if you are going to rip in the interior line then don't forget Sendlien, he should not be isolated from the blame when it comes to poor execution on the interior line.

- Pass Rushers: Alex Okafor is a pass rusher. Maybe not an elite pass rusher but he is getting consistent pressure on the QB. Just watch the games, and you will see he is doing a good job in what is essentially his rookie year. There is one guy. Sam Acho, and Lorenzo Alexander should be on their way out next season, IMO. Matt Shaughnessey has never been and is not a pass rusher but plays the run best out of all our linebackers, and most of our defensive ends. Less not we forget John Abraham is on the IR, and will probably retire. Its not like there wasn't a plan. If this team had Abraham, Okafor, and Campbell out on the field as a pass rush, I think this team would be fine from a pass rushing perspective. BTW, I guarantee there are teams that would die to have Alex Okafor, and Calais Campbell as a pass rusher. They are hard to come by.


5-Bruce Arians has been developing gameplans, and calling plays longer than some folks on this board have been alive. His playcalls are solid, he rarely makes mistakes, and a lack of execution is not his fault. He isn't perfect, but no one is. Calling out his playcalling is stupid.

8-1.

Some people will complain about the harp music in heaven.

 

[Stout]

Drew Stanton is not better than Carson Palmer.

Was Kurt Warner not better than Trent Green?
Was Tom Brady not better than Drew Bledsoe?

Haha, good one. Nice joke.

 

[machgman]

Agree. Now that PP21 has had two great games in a row, the haterade will stop flowing as fast.

Let's get real here. Really, two great games in a row?

Two great games in a row against Back-up Brandon Weadon (a back-up QB who threw a TD pass to Dez Bryant on PP) and against undrafted back-up QB Austin Davis who badly underthrew the pass on PP's first pick and then threw too high on the second interception where PP did make a good tip drill play INT (which any of the Cards DBs should have made as well).

It is good to see improvemed play from PP, but all of his INTs and "great games" come against "stellar NFL QBs" such as Mike Glennon and Austin Davis.

When PP takes over games, shuts out star receivers with top NFL star QBs passing them the ball, and finally makes INTs against the top QBs such as Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick, then I will be convinced PP is among the top DBs in the NFL. Until then, he is just a very, very good DB who is being overpaid on potential and NOT on real production against the top players in the NFL. So far for the season, #31-Cro has been the top graded DB on the Cards roster.

The Lions game should provide us with evidence if PP is fianally going to produce as one of the best DBs in the NFL when we see how well he covers Johnson (who is still not 100%) with Stafford throwing to him. Argueably, the Defensive Line and whoever covers Johnson will determine if the Cards win this game.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Let's get real here. Really, two great games in a row?

Two great games in a row against Back-up Brandon Weadon (a back-up QB who threw a TD pass to Dez Bryant on PP) and against undrafted back-up QB Austin Davis who badly underthrew the pass on PP's first pick and then threw too high on the second interception where PP did make a good tip drill play INT (which any of the Cards DBs should have made as well).

It is good to see improvemed play from PP, but all of his INTs and "great games" come against "stellar NFL QBs" such as Mike Glennon and Austin Davis.

When PP takes over games, shuts out star receivers with top NFL star QBs passing them the ball, and finally makes INTs against the top QBs such as Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick, then I will be convinced PP is among the top DBs in the NFL. Until then, he is just a very, very good DB who is being overpaid on potential and NOT on real production against the top players in the NFL. So far for the season, #31-Cro has been the top graded DB on the Cards roster.

The Lions game should provide us with evidence if PP is fianally going to produce as one of the best DBs in the NFL when we see how well he covers Johnson (who is still not 100%) with Stafford throwing to him. Argueably, the Defensive Line and whoever covers Johnson will determine if the Cards win this game.

I don't what to say about the claim in bold. Who is better than Peterson right now ? Just name 5, and it ain't Richard Sherman who has not had a good year either, and its not Joe Haden, so have fun finding 5.


Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick,

He didn't shut those guys down in 2010 when their pass defense was the best in the league ? Come on now.


Finally, a great player should dominate in games versus the Brandon Weeden's and average QB's in the NFL, yet you speak like its a bad thing.

This is not Madden.

 

[TigToad]

Two points...

We didn't play Massie much after his rookie year, now he's looking very good. I'll trust the development/continuity approach on Cooper for one more year.

The Eagles just put up 45 with Mark Sanchez. Mark...Sanchez. If given a choice of backup between Sanchez and Stanton... I'd choose Stanton. I refuse to give up home, if Drew can stay upright the rest of the way.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I don't what to say about the claim in bold. Who is better than Peterson right now ? Just name 5, and it ain't Richard Sherman who has not had a good year either, and its not Joe Haden, so have fun finding 5.


Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick,

He didn't shut those guys down in 2010 when their pass defense was the best in the league ? Come on now.


Finally, a great player should dominate in games versus the Brandon Weeden's and average QB's in the NFL, yet you speak like its a bad thing.

This is not Madden.

The way the new rules are being enforced now, it is impossible for a cornerback to shut anyone down and I do not care who the QB is because of this. So, I do put stock in Peterson's last performances. The Shermans and Petersons right now are actually exceptional cornerbacks and if allowed to play according to past rules, they would be shutting down WRs just like the greats who played on a even field of contact

 

[GuernseyCard]

Let's get real here. Really, two great games in a row?

Two great games in a row against Back-up Brandon Weadon (a back-up QB who threw a TD pass to Dez Bryant on PP) and against undrafted back-up QB Austin Davis who badly underthrew the pass on PP's first pick and then threw too high on the second interception where PP did make a good tip drill play INT (which any of the Cards DBs should have made as well).

It is good to see improvemed play from PP, but all of his INTs and "great games" come against "stellar NFL QBs" such as Mike Glennon and Austin Davis.

When PP takes over games, shuts out star receivers with top NFL star QBs passing them the ball, and finally makes INTs against the top QBs such as Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick, then I will be convinced PP is among the top DBs in the NFL. Until then, he is just a very, very good DB who is being overpaid on potential and NOT on real production against the top players in the NFL. So far for the season, #31-Cro has been the top graded DB on the Cards roster.

The Lions game should provide us with evidence if PP is fianally going to produce as one of the best DBs in the NFL when we see how well he covers Johnson (who is still not 100%) with Stafford throwing to him. Argueably, the Defensive Line and whoever covers Johnson will determine if the Cards win this game.

???

Only in Madden does Peterson get an opportunity to face off against almost all of the QB's you mentioned, and same could be said for the other top corners in the League. In the real world it's the team, QB and wideout on the schedule. This week is a good test.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The way the new rules are being enforced now, it is impossible for a cornerback to shut anyone down and I do not care who the QB is because of this. So, I do put stock in Peterson's last performances. The Shermans and Petersons right now are actually exceptional cornerbacks and if allowed to play according to past rules, they would be shutting down WRs just like the greats who played on a even field of contact

I put stock in all his performances

 

[TJ]

Let's get real here. Really, two great games in a row?

Two great games in a row against Back-up Brandon Weadon (a back-up QB who threw a TD pass to Dez Bryant on PP) and against undrafted back-up QB Austin Davis who badly underthrew the pass on PP's first pick and then threw too high on the second interception where PP did make a good tip drill play INT (which any of the Cards DBs should have made as well).

It is good to see improvemed play from PP, but all of his INTs and "great games" come against "stellar NFL QBs" such as Mike Glennon and Austin Davis.

When PP takes over games, shuts out star receivers with top NFL star QBs passing them the ball, and finally makes INTs against the top QBs such as Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick, then I will be convinced PP is among the top DBs in the NFL. Until then, he is just a very, very good DB who is being overpaid on potential and NOT on real production against the top players in the NFL. So far for the season, #31-Cro has been the top graded DB on the Cards roster.

The Lions game should provide us with evidence if PP is fianally going to produce as one of the best DBs in the NFL when we see how well he covers Johnson (who is still not 100%) with Stafford throwing to him. Argueably, the Defensive Line and whoever covers Johnson will determine if the Cards win this game.

And your boy Cro got two picks against Foles and one against Weeden. Should he be tarred and feathered because he didnt intercept Peyton, Kaep, or Rivers? Also, did you see how Peyton made mincemeat out of Cro in Week 5? That performance was worse than any performance Peterson has had in his entire career.

INTs are the most overrated stat for determining a DB's worth. Mean to tell me you'd take Tashaun Gipson over Earl Thomas? Perrish Cox over Peterson, Sherman or Revis? Watch a game and see how many times a QB throws in Peterson's direction. It's not that often as his WRs are hardly ever open, and rarely does he get beat deep. Most routes that PP21 gives up catches on are shallow crosses, or on pick plays (he does need to improve on knowing when those are coming). He rarely gets beat deep.

Peterson has unquestionably had his struggles this season, but he's still widely considered one of the top DBs in the NFL and an absolute asset on this team.

 

[Snakester]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Was it over when the keg floated. Hell no we got another keg.

 

[Chopper0080]

Let's get real here. Really, two great games in a row?

Two great games in a row against Back-up Brandon Weadon (a back-up QB who threw a TD pass to Dez Bryant on PP) and against undrafted back-up QB Austin Davis who badly underthrew the pass on PP's first pick and then threw too high on the second interception where PP did make a good tip drill play INT (which any of the Cards DBs should have made as well).

It is good to see improvemed play from PP, but all of his INTs and "great games" come against "stellar NFL QBs" such as Mike Glennon and Austin Davis.

When PP takes over games, shuts out star receivers with top NFL star QBs passing them the ball, and finally makes INTs against the top QBs such as Brady, Rodgers, Mannings, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Romo, Rivers, Roethlisberger or even the next tier QBs such as Dalton, Foles, Newton, Ryan, Cutler, Smith, and Kaepernick, then I will be convinced PP is among the top DBs in the NFL. Until then, he is just a very, very good DB who is being overpaid on potential and NOT on real production against the top players in the NFL. So far for the season, #31-Cro has been the top graded DB on the Cards roster.

The Lions game should provide us with evidence if PP is fianally going to produce as one of the best DBs in the NFL when we see how well he covers Johnson (who is still not 100%) with Stafford throwing to him. Argueably, the Defensive Line and whoever covers Johnson will determine if the Cards win this game.

3-Patrick Peterson is really, really good. That doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve, but that need to improve doesn't mean he isn't really, really good.