Q not a happy camper?

[BigRedRage]

Trading Q would be a Graves mistake.

fify

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

i don't think it's an issue until the off season but if the Cards get offered a #1,i wou.ld take that trade in a second

 

[Mitch]

I think it's a mistake for a few reasons:
1) Players aren't going to want to come to AZ in FA if this situation is allowed to fester,
2) I don't care how great a guy Q is, we won't get his best if this drags on for 3 seasons
3) His play style is such that he opens himself to injury more than the typical WR, add that to my belief that he'll eventually be traded anyway and I think we should "sell high" before his value is brought down by injuries.

JMHO, and I know it's not a popular one.

1) Show players the money and they'll go anywhere. A free agent is likely more apt to sign with the Cardinals if the Cardinals continue to put up big numbers on offense.

2) When the lights are on Q is Q...he only knows one way to play...and if he dogs it, other teams might be leery of giving up a lot to trade for him.

3) This is your most persuasive point, IMO. If the Cards can get great value for him, then trading him may be wise...but not now, unless you are willing to have Steve Breaston start.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Nah, this wont impact the team at all. Never!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We have three seasons to keep two Pro Bowl WRs together...at the end of the three years, chances are Early Doucet will be poised and ready to take Q's starting job.

We really don't need to get anything for Q when he walks, but the salary cap space.

My thoughts exactly.

If you are not going to get good value out of the trade (2nd round pick & mid-level CB is not even close, IMO) then keep him and use him for the next three years.

It is a no brainer, even when taking emotion out of it, well at least in IMO it is.

 

[Pariah]

1) Show players the money and they'll go anywhere. A free agent is likely more apt to sign with the Cardinals if the Cardinals continue to put up big numbers on offense.

But that's the point, right?

Why would a player like LaBoy come to AZ if he knew he couldn't re-negotiate his contract if he started playing lights-out? The Cards are never going to throw money wound at a player that should be getting better (ie Pace and the Jets). They're going to say, we'll pay you based on past production, not the production we hop you have. Unsaid, yet based on precedence, is that if the player DOES outperform that contract, they'll likely have to wait it out and then go somewhere else.

I think it's bad player management. And I think it DOES matter.

JMHO

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think it's a mistake for a few reasons:
1) Players aren't going to want to come to AZ in FA if this situation is allowed to fester.

Ridiculous. We just paid Fitzgerald 40 mil, and have been paying players for production more than ever. If that is the case with us, then it is the case with the Bengals, the Jets, the Ravens, the Titans, the Rams, the Bills, the Eagles, and other teams that have had contract issues that I can't name off the top of my head.

2) I don't care how great a guy Q is, we won't get his best if this drags on for 3 seasons.

Got nothing to base that on, as of yet, and we went 8-8 when him at half pace last year.

3) His play style is such that he opens himself to injury more than the typical WR, add that to my belief that he'll eventually be traded anyway and I think we should "sell high" before his value is brought down by injuries.

JMHO, and I know it's not a popular one.

If his play drops, and he becomes a cancer then trade him. Cuase when the proof is there that he is going to dog it then there is nothing we can do but trade him.
I believe all will be answered good or bad NEXT offseason.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

But that's the point, right?

Why would a player like LaBoy come to AZ if he knew he couldn't re-negotiate his contract if he started playing lights-out? The Cards are never going to throw money wound at a player that should be getting better (ie Pace and the Jets). They're going to say, we'll pay you based on past production, not the production we hop you have. Unsaid, yet based on precedence, is that if the player DOES outperform that contract, they'll likely have to wait it out and then go somewhere else.

I think it's bad player management. And I think it DOES matter.

JMHO

Good point. You are always rolling the dice in one way or another. There is no fool proof plan when it come to signing players.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Nah, this wont impact the team at all. Never!

Every team has contract problems, and most of those problems are with captains and big time players.

Nothing new, it is business, and part of the game.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Every team has contract problems, and most of those problems are with captains and big time players.

Nothing new, it is business, and part of the game.

Really? Coz by my count there is only a couple that has shown the disdane Q has.

1. Saying he is done with negotiations and says he was lied too
2. Wont speak to the coaches.
3. Talking to the media about his situation.

Lets see , Q and Chad Johnson. Thats about it. Sure there are others but they keep it private . I am not comparing the two players but it is naive to believe this situation doesnt impact the lockerroom, the players and the coaching staff. Of course it does. They are all aware of what is going on and thinking "If they can do this to Q, then they can do this to me"

 

[WisconsinCard]

We have three seasons to keep two Pro Bowl WRs together...at the end of the three years, chances are Early Doucet will be poised and ready to take Q's starting job.

We really don't need to get anything for Q when he walks, but the salary cap space.

Could be four if we used the franchise tag.

 

[Dash]

you are a huge Boldin fan but cant even spell his name?

You can pick apart any statement or word you want; if that is all you can find fault with I am glad you see value in my opinion.

 

[Dash]

We have three seasons to keep two Pro Bowl WRs together...at the end of the three years, chances are Early Doucet will be poised and ready to take Q's starting job.

We really don't need to get anything for Q when he walks, but the salary cap space.

Mitch,

Enjoying the discussion, but have to disagree with this point as I believe we do need trade Boldin and get something in return. I watch other high calibur teams trading key players or players that had above average careers and getting something in return to restock or expand the overall talent of the team.

I just do not see why the Cardinals should pay some much money towards two receivers when they are not involved in every play (to narrow a view in my opinion on how to improve the team). By this I mean, my preference would be use the money for Boldin towards a number of talented offensive or defensive lineman (as I believe they add more value and are involved in every play). I am not a believer that you should "break the bank" have two high priced receivers on any team unless you have other core players and subs already in place.

Food for thought

 

[Mitch]

Mitch,

Enjoying the discussion, but have to disagree with this point as I believe we do need trade Boldin and get something in return. I watch other high calibur teams trading key players or players that had above average careers and getting something in return to restock or expand the overall talent of the team.

I just do not see why the Cardinals should pay some much money towards two receivers when they are not involved in every play (to narrow a view in my opinion on how to improve the team). By this I mean, my preference would be use the money for Boldin towards a number of talented offensive or defensive lineman (as I believe they add more value and are involved in every play). I am not a believer that you should "break the bank" have two high priced receivers on any team unless you have other core players and subs already in place.

Food for thought

Dash: The point is---the Cardinals don't HAVE to pay two huge WR salaries for the next three years. Boldin has said he's going to play out the contract. Fine. He hasn't made any complaints since...and he's getting ready to kick some serious butt this year. The Cardinals are lucky to have him...and they've treated him well by ripping up his rookie contract after two years when they didn't have to. Sure, he'd like more money...but he passed on negotiations in favor of seeing what Fitz got and then posturing for a pre-draft trade.

 

[ajcardfan]

We could get something in return for Boldin in a trade AND clear cap space. But, I think a first round pick is a pipe dream. We might get a 3rd or 4th round pick. Maybe we could work in something related to his performance to get another pick or move it up a round. But, no one is going to give up too much when they know they are taking care of your headache.

A strong start by the team may change his attitude.

 

[Buckybird]

Dash: The point is---the Cardinals don't HAVE to pay two huge WR salaries for the next three years. Boldin has said he's going to play out the contract. Fine. He hasn't made any complaints since...and he's getting ready to kick some serious butt this year. The Cardinals are lucky to have him...and they've treated him well by ripping up his rookie contract after two years when they didn't have to. Sure, he'd like more money...but he passed on negotiations in favor of seeing what Fitz got and then posturing for a pre-draft trade.

Mortenson just reported on Monday Night Countdown that Q has told the Cards once again he wants to be traded. I'm assuming this happened in the last week or few days. It may be time to pull the trigger!!! Like I said, Q to the Boys for Crayton, Jenkins and a #3.

 

[Dash]

Dash: The point is---the Cardinals don't HAVE to pay two huge WR salaries for the next three years. Boldin has said he's going to play out the contract. Fine. He hasn't made any complaints since...and he's getting ready to kick some serious butt this year. The Cardinals are lucky to have him...and they've treated him well by ripping up his rookie contract after two years when they didn't have to. Sure, he'd like more money...but he passed on negotiations in favor of seeing what Fitz got and then posturing for a pre-draft trade.

Mitch,

I understood your point and it is very valid. However, I would rather not strong arm Boldin into playing under his current contract; even though I think he should as he did sign that contract which was substantial at that point in time. The way the league has already consented to various demands from players a precendent has already been set and is now a part of the system whether we fans like it or not.

My point of view is similiary to yours in that the club has treated Boldin well and Boldin has also responded by by a team leader, talent football player, and an active community supporter (all the reasons why I would prefer to trade Fitzgerald but it is now a mute point with his recent contract). I don't want management to strong arm him into playing for the same reasons. It is just time for both parties to move on (nature of the business) and let us just make sure both parties are compensated well. Unfortunate situation, but like everything else in life it just happens.

 

[Dash]

Dash: The point is---the Cardinals don't HAVE to pay two huge WR salaries for the next three years. Boldin has said he's going to play out the contract. Fine. He hasn't made any complaints since...and he's getting ready to kick some serious butt this year. The Cardinals are lucky to have him...and they've treated him well by ripping up his rookie contract after two years when they didn't have to. Sure, he'd like more money...but he passed on negotiations in favor of seeing what Fitz got and then posturing for a pre-draft trade.

Mitch,

I understood your point and it is very valid. However, I would rather not strong arm Boldin into playing under his current contract; even though I think he should as he did sign that contract which was substantial at that point in time. The way the league has already consented to various demands from players a precendent has already been set and is now a part of the system whether we fans like it or not.

My point of view is similiary to yours in that the club has treated Boldin well and Boldin has also responded by by a team leader, talent football player, and an active community supporter (all the reasons why I would prefer to trade Fitzgerald but it is now a mute point with his recent contract). I don't want management to strong arm him into playing for the same reasons. It is just time for both parties to move on (nature of the business) and let us just make sure both parties are compensated well. Unfortunate situation, but like everything else in life it just happens.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch,

I understood your point and it is very valid. However, I would rather not strong arm Boldin into playing under his current contract; even though I think he should as he did sign that contract which was substantial at that point in time. The way the league has already consented to various demands from players a precendent has already been set and is now a part of the system whether we fans like it or not.

My point of view is similiary to yours in that the club has treated Boldin well and Boldin has also responded by by a team leader, talent football player, and an active community supporter (all the reasons why I would prefer to trade Fitzgerald but it is now a mute point with his recent contract). I don't want management to strong arm him into playing for the same reasons. It is just time for both parties to move on (nature of the business) and let us just make sure both parties are compensated well. Unfortunate situation, but like everything else in life it just happens.

The only way we trade him now, Dash, is for another Pro Bowl caliber WR. We cannot weaken this year's chances, by trading Boldin for a draft pick or a package that does not include a starting WR.

If Boldin is now demanding a trade again---his credibility is shot. After the draft, following all the trade rumors, Boldin told the media that he didn't want to leave Arizona.

Now, following his first day of camp tantrum, in which he clearly stated he would play out his contract and then walk...to now demand a trade is once again a contradiction.

 

[Pariah]

his credibility is shot.

At this point I don't care about his credibility. I care about A) how much he plays for us this season (both in # of snaps and how much heart he puts into it) and B) how much we can get for him in a trade.

Get used to the idea of Boldin playing for someone else, because this is his last season as a Cardinal, IMO.

 

[Buckybird]

Get used to the idea of Boldin playing for someone else, because this is his last season as a Cardinal, IMO.

YEP!!!!!!!!

 

[Dash]

Mitch,

I am not sold on the team having to trade Q for another receiver; that would be nice but I think we have a sold receiver corp. in place although young. In my opinion, and this is based on my vision of how you build a good offensive or defense, I would trade for lineman and possible a cornerback. If we can build the trenches, we hold the line (or penetrate) and provide time for the receivers to get open. Given the time, any receiver can get open and a good line will give a good quarterback the opportunity.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch,

I am not sold on the team having to trade Q for another receiver; that would be nice but I think we have a sold receiver corp. in place although young. In my opinion, and this is based on my vision of how you build a good offensive or defense, I would trade for lineman and possible a cornerback. If we can build the trenches, we hold the line (or penetrate) and provide time for the receivers to get open. Given the time, any receiver can get open and a good line will give a good quarterback the opportunity.

Dash, the dropoff from Q to Breaston/Doucet/Urban is too steep. A year from now, ok...but not now, they're too young and inexperienced.

 

[joeshmo]

Dash, the dropoff from Q to Breaston/Doucet/Urban is too steep. A year from now, ok...but not now, they're too young and inexperienced.

True, but I think we need to come to the conclusion that player for player trades are about the thing of the past. Just look at the trades this year of some pretty good players. Jenkins, Stroud, Shockey, Favre, Allen all traded for just draft picks.

Maybe a throw away depth player is thrown in but for the most part any trade of Boldin will be for Draft picks IMO going by the current trends.

 

[Mitch]

True, but I think we need to come to the conclusion that player for player trades are about the thing of the past. Just look at the trades this year of some pretty good players. Jenkins, Stroud, Shockey, Favre, Allen all traded for just draft picks.

Maybe a throw away depth player is thrown in but for the most part any trade of Boldin will be for Draft picks IMO going by the current trends.

Right, which is why the Cards simply cannot trade Q for a draft pick right now...a draft pick who obviously cannot help the team win this year.