QB Battle: Doug & Wolf

[PACardsFan]

This is exactly what I have seen.

Kolb is clearly the better QB in practice. Enough so that you see why the Cards made the trade for him.

Then the game starts and he loses all composure.

Unless practice completions start carrying over to games, Skelton should be the guy.

You should see me hit golf balls on the range!! If I could only carry that over to the course, I could quit my day job.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The thing I don't get is people are acting like Skelton practices bad and then lights it up on gameday. Numbers say the exact opposite unless you think a career 53% completion rate and 66.9 QB rating are "lighting it up". It looks to me like he bad in practice and bad in games.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be named starter but let's not act like it's some great injustice if Kolb gets the nod. Considering Kolb has put up better practices and better numbers, even last year, when the games count, I wouldn't call it a great upset for him to start.

 

[PJ1]

Good Christ, if this team tries to hand the job over to Blok and shove some 'he's better in practice' crap down our throats, I will swear off watching games until he's yanked. This is complete and utter crap. Kolb crumbles under pressure, in real-time game situations. Rob Johnson looked great in practice--and took sack after horrifying sack in real games. You know, those things that count--the games. If Kolb can't handle the pressure in the preseason, how will he handle it in the regular season? Ugh!

Agreed. The only national attention we have received in preseason is from highlights of Kolb's poor performance.

I have had more than one person here in Nashville ask me if Kolb came with a refund.

I will be at the game tomorrow and I can't help but think back two years ago this week we played the Titans here in preseason and and I had the pleasure of watching Derek Anderson. Two years later we are still searching for the answer at QB.

 

[PJ1]

The thing I don't get is people are acting like Skelton practices bad and then lights it up on gameday. Numbers say the exact opposite unless you think a career 53% completion rate and 66.9 QB rating are "lighting it up". It looks to me like he bad in practice and bad in games.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be named starter but let's not act like it's some great injustice if Kolb gets the nod. Considering Kolb has put up better practices and better numbers, even last year, when the games count, I wouldn't call it a great upset for him to start.

Have you watched any of the preseason games? You would consider starting Kolb?

 

[Darkside]

The thing I don't get is people are acting like Skelton practices bad and then lights it up on gameday. Numbers say the exact opposite unless you think a career 53% completion rate and 66.9 QB rating are "lighting it up". It looks to me like he bad in practice and bad in games.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be named starter but let's not act like it's some great injustice if Kolb gets the nod. Considering Kolb has put up better practices and better numbers, even last year, when the games count, I wouldn't call it a great upset for him to start.

The only thing to "get" is that games are played real-time with dudes wanting to kill our QB and not in practice. I can't remember who it was, but they posted a stat from Pro-Football Focus or some such that had stats from Kolb and Skelton under duress and it wasn't even close for Kolb, he was way behind. Then they posted Kolb V Skelton in a clean pocket, and Kolb won. Those are live game situations. Given our Oline, how many clean pockets do you think either of our QB's are likely to see?

Oh and as far as acting like Skelton is stellar, I don't see anyone saying that. We just want a chance man, with a QB who is upright and able to throw. We have low expectations at this point, we just want a guy able to make a throw, someone who is standing upright with his arm cocked.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Have you watched any of the preseason games? You would consider starting Kolb?

Not all that closely because they don't matter one iota as to what happens in the regular season. I have seen enough to see that Kolb has played poorly and Skelton played well. Big deal. Matt Leinart has looked better than Carson Palmer, do you think he should start?

As I have stated, I think Skelton will be the starter but it won't surprise if Kolb is either.

 

[Darkside]

Not all that closely because they don't matter one iota as to what happens in the regular season. I have seen enough to see that Kolb has played poorly and Skelton played well. Big deal. Matt Leinart has looked better than Carson Palmer, do you think he should start?

As I have stated, I think Skelton will be the starter but it won't surprise if Kolb is either.

Attitudes like that irritate me. It's dudes like you saying preseason doesn't matter. But without preseason we'd never see Bethel block all those kicks and punts and look so outstanding. Without preseason he'd be riding bench for weeks, months, or years. Actually, he probably wouldn't even make the team without preseason.

 

[Jersey Girl]

The ultimate Cardinals sweetness. I downloaded TuneIn radio on my superphone, and can listen to Cardinals sports radio on the way home from work here in NJ.

That rocks!!! Gotta love technology.

Anyway, the word out of Doug & Wolf is that the reason the Cardinals still have a QB battle right now, and not a named starter is:

"Kevin Kolb has won the competition per practice performance, and John Skelton has won the competition per game performance."

Supposidely Skelton has been horrible in practice, and Kolb has been "acceptable".

As for the games? Well, the fans get to watch the games so we know the story there.

Interesting....................

Heard that, too ... and, from the three practices I saw (and, granted, three isn't enough), Kolb was CLEARLY the better QB. But, to quote one of my favorite basketball players of all time, "we talkin' 'bout practice. Not a game. Practice." Games are what matter. If you can't take what you do at practice and bring it to a game, then what's the point?

I feel bad for Kolb. There was a pretty scathing article about him in the Republic today. While I don't disagree that the organization (at least to this point) looks like it made a big mistake, the guy is still a person and I gotta think it sucks when most people think you, well, suck. I was never a fan of bringing him here, but, damn, I really wanted to see if a full off-season and a good amount of time with the playbook could help him get to the next level.

 

[Darkside]

That rocks!!! Gotta love technology.



Heard that, too ... and, from the three practices I saw (and, granted, three isn't enough), Kolb was CLEARLY the better QB. But, to quote one of my favorite basketball players of all time, "we talkin' 'bout practice. Not a game. Practice." Games are what matter. If you can't take what you do at practice and bring it to a game, then what's the point?

I feel bad for Kolb. There was a pretty scathing article about him in the Republic today. While I don't disagree that the organization (at least to this point) looks like it made a big mistake, the guy is still a person and I gotta think it sucks when most people think you, well, suck. I was never a fan of bringing him here, but, damn, I really wanted to see if a full off-season and a good amount of time with the playbook could help him get to the next level.

Did you just quote Allen Iverson? You kill me.

 

[chickenhead]

IMO it almost doesn't matter because I think we're going to see both this year anyway. It's like, we can argue about who starts game one if we want, but we'll be arguing about the other one starting game 4.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Attitudes like that irritate me. It's dudes like you saying preseason doesn't matter. But without preseason we'd never see Bethel block all those kicks and punts and look so outstanding. Without preseason he'd be riding bench for weeks, months, or years. Actually, he probably wouldn't even make the team without preseason.

I beg to differ. There has been numerous occasions where the player who led the league in pre-season rushing, receiving, or passing, has been cut or didn't play a down in the regular season.

I'll give you that the games MAY determine who the 52nd or 53rd players on the roster are if they are in close competition. If you want to think the last players on the roster, almost always inactive on gameday, affect the regular season, that is entirely your perogative.

As for Bethel, I'm sure he has been making plays in practice to get himself noticed and will/would make the team on that merit as much as blocking kicks against many players that won't be on the other teams final 53. Plus, he'll likely be riding the bench much of the season anyway, if not all of it.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Chris Sanders reported in his camp reports that Kolb looked better got ridiculed too cus he stated " I hate to say it but Kolb played better" Bodha reported how awful Skelton looked backing up the practice I witnessed. there have been a few others.

The three days I saw camp, Kolb was definitely the better QB of him and Anderson. And Lindley looked inaccurate as hell. Bartel made no case for his job, either. Granted, these were the first few days of camp.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Did you just quote Allen Iverson? You kill me.

I sure as hell did.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The only thing to "get" is that games are played real-time with dudes wanting to kill our QB and not in practice. I can't remember who it was, but they posted a stat from Pro-Football Focus or some such that had stats from Kolb and Skelton under duress and it wasn't even close for Kolb, he was way behind. Then they posted Kolb V Skelton in a clean pocket, and Kolb won. Those are live game situations. Given our Oline, how many clean pockets do you think either of our QB's are likely to see?

Oh and as far as acting like Skelton is stellar, I don't see anyone saying that. We just want a chance man, with a QB who is upright and able to throw. We have low expectations at this point, we just want a guy able to make a throw, someone who is standing upright with his arm cocked.

I don't know why you're trying to argue with me, I've said that I think Skelton will start. But when "games are played real-time with dudes wanting to kill our QB", Kolb has put up better statistical numbers. And, he has reportedly looked better, or not as bad, however you want to look at it, than Skelton in practices. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if Kolb is starting come week 1. I just wish one of them would take the job and run with it. Obviously, neither one has.

 

[Darkside]

I beg to differ. There has been numerous occasions where the player who led the league in pre-season rushing, receiving, or passing, has been cut or didn't play a down in the regular season.

I'll give you that the games MAY determine who the 52nd or 53rd players on the roster are if they are in close competition. If you want to think the last players on the roster, almost always inactive on gameday, affect the regular season, that is entirely your perogative.

As for Bethel, I'm sure he has been making plays in practice to get himself noticed and will/would make the team on that merit as much as blocking kicks against many players that won't be on the other teams final 53. Plus, he'll likely be riding the bench much of the season anyway, if not all of it.

But that's the whole point of preseason, filling out your roster. Most teams know who the starters are. It's only different for us because of the QB's last few years, but by and large most teams know. It's about filling out the roster of those lower tier guys. They were talking on Sirius radio today bout Coughlin, coach of the Giants, when he got Victor Cruz, and before preseason he thought he'd be a player and he proved it to him in preseason and then went on to have a spectacular year. Sometimes those lesser tier players either elevate themselves to higher status or help you win a Super Bowl man.

Look at dudes on our own team, practice doesn't tell the tape. If it did we'd be starting Kolb and still be starting dudes like Porter (we never would have let him go LOL) and still be starting Lenon ahead of Bradley. Bradley makes an impact he can't make in practice because he's a run-stopper which doesn't show up in practice. Lot of them do.

Gametime is different than practice man, much different.

 

[Phrazbit]

The thing I don't get is people are acting like Skelton practices bad and then lights it up on gameday. Numbers say the exact opposite unless you think a career 53% completion rate and 66.9 QB rating are "lighting it up". It looks to me like he bad in practice and bad in games.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be named starter but let's not act like it's some great injustice if Kolb gets the nod. Considering Kolb has put up better practices and better numbers, even last year, when the games count, I wouldn't call it a great upset for him to start.

I dont think anyone is claiming Skelton is elite on game day, but he has been more serviceable than Kolb, and that includes during last season... in-spite of Kolb's grossly misleading QB rating.

And its not like Kolb is supposedly elite in practice, he has not been particularly strong, by most accounts the defense is beating up on the offense no matter who is out there in practice. While during the preseason games its not like Skelton is merely edging out Kolb. Kolb has been immeasurably awful. He looks like he does not even belong in the league, much less a QB competition.

We cannot compete with Kolb at the helm. He is a limited player who makes too many negative plays and at this point he seems utterly ruined from a confidence standpoint. He was showing these same mistakes last year, he is looking even worse this year. To compare it to a situation like Mallet vs Brady is a joke. That was not a competition, Brady is not out there knowing his job is on the line, and its not like the Patriots are looking for Brady to show improvement over some monumental flaws from the previous year. Kolb is a guy fighting for his job, he is not just some typical starter cruising through the preseason. He was supposed to come out and show improvement, instead he has shown significant regression.

If Kolb were named starter it would seriously damage the credibility of the coaches who claimed this was an open competition.

 

[PJ1]

Not all that closely because they don't matter one iota as to what happens in the regular season. I have seen enough to see that Kolb has played poorly and Skelton played well. Big deal. Matt Leinart has looked better than Carson Palmer, do you think he should start?

As I have stated, I think Skelton will be the starter but it won't surprise if Kolb is either.

If we had Carson Palmer I would be starting him no matter what. Kevin Kolb has never accomplished anything near what Palmer has so the analogy is weak. He needs to prove himself and he doesn't even look like he wants to be out there.

We have a QB problem and I don't deny that but up to this point you just can't start Kolb.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't know why you're trying to argue with me, I've said that I think Skelton will start. But when "games are played real-time with dudes wanting to kill our QB", Kolb has put up better statistical numbers. And, he has reportedly looked better, or not as bad, however you want to look at it, than Skelton in practices. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if Kolb is starting come week 1. I just wish one of them would take the job and run with it. Obviously, neither one has.

It would surprise me because this was supposedly a competition to determine this year's starter. If there was any telling evidence in Kolb's favor from last season there would have been no need for any of this. They didn't acquire him to "compete" for the job and they didn't hand him all that money to "compete" for the job. His inability to do the job last season led to this competition. From a fan's perspective, the only way Kolb could be considered the starter right now is if the coaching staff misled us. The preseason isn't over but right now, Skelton should be the clear leader.

Steve

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I dont think anyone is claiming Skelton is elite on game day, but he has been more serviceable than Kolb, and that includes during last season... in-spite of Kolb's grossly misleading QB rating.
So now QB ratings are misleading. Okay, if you say so.
And its not like Kolb is supposedly elite in practice, he has not been particularly strong, by most accounts the defense is beating up on the offense no matter who is out there in practice. While during the preseason games its not like Skelton is merely edging out Kolb. Kolb has been immeasurably awful. He looks like he does not even belong in the league, much less a QB competition.
When you have attended all the practices and sat in all the meetings, I'll give your evaluations some merit.
We cannot compete with Kolb at the helm. He is a limited player who makes too many negative plays and at this point he seems utterly ruined from a confidence standpoint. He was showing these same mistakes last year, he is looking even worse this year. To compare it to a situation like Mallet vs Brady is a joke. That was not a competition, Brady is not out there knowing his job is on the line, and its not like the Patriots are looking for Brady to show improvement over some monumental flaws from the previous year. Kolb is a guy fighting for his job, he is not just some typical starter cruising through the preseason. He was supposed to come out and show improvement, instead he has shown significant regression.
Try not to take everything so literal. I was using an extreme example of pre-season stats being meaningless.
If Kolb were named starter it would seriously damage the credibility of the coaches who claimed this was an open competition.
The coaches are going to play the guy who they think gives them the best chance to win. I doubt they are worried about their credibility with the fans.

.


Again, I fully expect Skelton to be named the starter. What part of that are you missing? I'm saying, it's probably not as cut and dried as you'd like to think, or hope, it is. Skelton supposedly calling the wrong plays in week 2 are probably the type of things that drive Whiz nuts and make him hesitant to hand Skelton the reins. Unlike most, I'm not going to be up in arms if Kolb starts the season a the #1. I don't think he will, but the coaching staff isn't going to put him in there just for hell of it. If/when Kolb plays bad in the regular season then I'll be more concerned.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes, I think QB rating can be a misleading stat. It completely ignores sack yardage, fumbles, 1st down conversions.... you know, all the stuff Kolb is terrible at.

Kolb's biggest problem is the amount of negative plays he creates, putting his team in 2nd and 3rd situations of well over 10 yards, and he has been so poor on throws of over 10 yards that its almost impossible for him to get out of those situations. QB rating totally ignores that. He takes a huge sack, then throws a completion well short of the 1st and his QB rating makes it appear as though he actually played well on that possession, and thats a situation we saw repeatedly last year.

And I understand you think Skelton will win, but you also are saying that it wont be some "injustice" of Kolb gets the nod... even though he has been grossly inept. I disagree. And I honestly do think the coaching staff is concerned with their own credibility, especially within the locker-room.

 

[52brandon]

regardless of how great Kolb looks in practice, I don't think he will survive more than half the season. Especially behind a depleted line (one which the initial starters were nothing to be confident in to begin with). They might as well let the offense get used to Skelton being back there now. Either way, I hope they spent a lot of the offseason drawing up more running plays. Effective ones preferably lol

 

[Stout]

I don't know why you're trying to argue with me, I've said that I think Skelton will start. But when "games are played real-time with dudes wanting to kill our QB", Kolb has put up better statistical numbers. And, he has reportedly looked better, or not as bad, however you want to look at it, than Skelton in practices. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if Kolb is starting come week 1. I just wish one of them would take the job and run with it. Obviously, neither one has.

Thank you CKW. Or maybe Darren Urban. Oh wait, there's someone else trying to do anything but admit Kolb shouldn't even sniff the field?

 

[Garthshort]

I appreciate the Camp reports by everyone, and camp (to me) only opens when Shane, Chris and others start filing their reports. What I try to keep in mind is that these reports are only coming in after very few practices, and that has to be taken into consideration. That said, I do appreciate/enjoy the reports.

 

[Duckjake]

After watching Batiste and Snyder on the right side of the offensive line I don't think it matters anymore who starts at QB. We're toast. But gamedays will still be fun as long as there's plenty of Cardinal Kool Aid on hand.

 

[crisper57]

The three days I saw camp, Kolb was definitely the better QB of him and Anderson. And Lindley looked inaccurate as hell. Bartel made no case for his job, either. Granted, these were the first few days of camp.

I'll say it again. If I'm starting a two-hand touch or flag football team, Kolb is my guy. But when the Defenses are out for blood, Skelton is the better QB. There's a reason Kolb is better in practice. He knows he isn't going to get hit, so he can actually do his job without fear. If there really is a tie, the job better go to the guy who's shown he can take a hit.