Q's not a free agent next year and is under contract right?

[freebyrd]

or am i wrong?
so all this talk about more money is that he's outplayed his contract that he freely signed, was rosenhous his agent at the time and if not who was? did Q get bad advice and who's fault is that?

and if he is under contract and it doesn't get reworked were afraid of what?
he'll sit out the season and be in breach of contract?

i'm not opposed to some sort of bonus, i'm a working man and i have had jobs before where i exceeded expectations and got a bonus one was a christmas ham
good ham but it didn't bankrupt the company to give it to me and i don't want to bankrupt and regress the progression of the team i love a progression i have only seen once in my lifetime
no one player is worth that if Q is willing to play ball with us financially fine show him some money
if not or if in the name of heaven i dare to say it and we win it all this year, i shop Q like an amsterdamn ***** and let breaston take over and early doucett develope to see what we've got,
and take the players and draft picks we get for Q especially if he was to be say superbowl mvp and create the foundation for a dynasty

or at least a perennial contender and playoff regular,

wouldn't it be nice to get a decade or more of respectability? and if its with Q all the better, but my lovable losers are 6 and 3 and could be 7 and 3 this weekend, i don't want to give that up and mortgage our future do you?

i want to be a winner every year we haven't won it all since 47' we deserve this
and if Q was superman he would have carried us on his back to several titles by now
supporting casts and good coaching and a commitment by ownership to winning is what it takes, and for the first time since the 70's we got that
lets keep it
freebyrd

 

[Pariah]

If Q is means so much to the franchise, is such a phenomenal human being and the best thing since sliced bread, shouldn't the team respect his wishes and either pay him like Fitz or trade him to a team that will?

If the answer is, "nah, we have him by the balls. Let him play out his contract," I don't think you like him as much as I do.

 

[Shane]

If Q is means so much to the franchise, is such a phenomenal human being and the best thing since sliced bread, shouldn't the team respect his wishes and either pay him like Fitz or trade him to a team that will?

If the answer is, "nah, we have him by the balls. Let him play out his contract," I don't think you like him as much as I do.

 

[Jttsaz]

Gotta make Q a Card for life...heart and soul of this franchise bar none...He proved it by going out and playing his Ass off even after the contract issue and getting his face broke..If we lose Quan we lose something more than just a pro bowl player..we lose the soul of this team...Pay the man!

 

[Rasputin]

Some people are just worth a ham. Q isn't one of them.

Pay him.

 

[DoTheDew]

Another thing we aren't considering is that there is a legitimate chance that we will be seeing an uncapped year when Boldin's contract is up. I would hate to let him get to that point knowing someone like Dallas or Washington can pay him more then we will ever be able to.

 

[Rasputin]

Edge is in the second tear of a 4 year $30 million contract. Leinart in the second of a 6 year $50 million one. Trade them both in the off season. Edge doesn't really fit the offense, and with Tim and J.R. he is superfluous. Matty is overpaid and over rated. We could get a decent deal for both (I'm pretty sure senile Al Davis would pay through the nose for Mr. USC) cut major $$$ off of out cap room and pay Q, Dansby and other impact players. Pick up Kurt's understudy (of course the FIRST thing we do is re-sign him) in the draft, go for quality and not name recognition this time.

Trading Q is just plain ********. But fortunatly, Whiz is no Denny Green, so it ain't happening.

 

[HookemCards]

Edge is in the second tear of a 4 year $30 million contract. Leinart in the second of a 6 year $50 million one. Trade them both in the off season. Edge doesn't really fit the offense, and with Tim and J.R. he is superfluous. Matty is overpaid and over rated. We could get a decent deal for both (I'm pretty sure senile Al Davis would pay through the nose for Mr. USC) cut major $$$ off of out cap room and pay Q, Dansby and other impact players. Pick up Kurt's understudy (of course the FIRST thing we do is re-sign him) in the draft, go for quality and not name recognition this time.

Trading Q is just plain ********. But fortunatly, Whiz is no Denny Green, so it ain't happening.

Edge will be cut, he's worth next to nothing in a trade. His contract is like 5 mil a year, and his production is at like 500k a year. Leinart would have a little trade value, but depending on his contract structure (signing bonus) it could have a negative impact on the cap, Joe would be able to say for sure. Plus what happens when Warner is injured (and chances are he will be), or in a few years when he retires. Trading Leinart wouldn't be smart, and trading Edge just isn't going to happen.

 

[freebyrd]

thats fine if your willing to except another 98 season throw our money at one player and start the decade downward spiral all over again but Q will retire a cardinal and the ring of honor is more important than a championship banner to some folks,

we are on the cusp of greatness we can make it an afterthought like 98 or a dominate franchise with depth and very little to no drop from snap to snap

we got a big choice to make, and some can be painful but beneficial to the life of a franchise thats turning the corner and believing in itself

and for the record of course i love Q this ain't easy to just talk about glad i'm not making the decision
freebyrd

 

[AZ Native]

Somehow Q will be paid after this year and he will earn every penny of it. That is Q!

 

[Zeno]

Edge is in the second tear of a 4 year $30 million contract. Leinart in the second of a 6 year $50 million one. Trade them both in the off season. Edge doesn't really fit the offense, and with Tim and J.R. he is superfluous. Matty is overpaid and over rated. We could get a decent deal for both (I'm pretty sure senile Al Davis would pay through the nose for Mr. USC) cut major $$$ off of out cap room and pay Q, Dansby and other impact players. Pick up Kurt's understudy (of course the FIRST thing we do is re-sign him) in the draft, go for quality and not name recognition this time.

Trading Q is just plain ********. But fortunatly, Whiz is no Denny Green, so it ain't happening.

Trading Leinart would be stupid. Then we'll be back to the place we were when Lomax got hurt, constantly looking for our QB of the future, looking to every draft hoping we get lucky or signing journeyman QBs every offseason as a "stop-gap". Leinart will be a good pro and I just hope its not playing for someone else...the only thing that will stop him from succeeding is injury.

Edge has zero trade value, he'll be cut this offseason...and he is in the third year of his contract which I'm pretty sure had most of the cap hit loaded in to the first season.

 

[joshstmarie]

The love fest this board has with Q kinda makes me sick. Dont get me wrong, i love the guy and hope we can get something worked out. But honestly id rather fill other positions we actually need to address and 2.) This guy said he didnt want to be a cardinal and will sign somewhere else... screw that.

Q was out for 3 games and we didnt miss a beat.

 

[Shane]

The love fest this board has with Q kinda makes me sick. Dont get me wrong, i love the guy and hope we can get something worked out. But honestly id rather fill other positions we actually need to address and 2.) This guy said he didnt want to be a cardinal and will sign somewhere else... screw that.

Q was out for 3 games and we didnt miss a beat.

Q was out two games and this offense is better with him regardless of what happened in those games. Lets wait till this seaon is over to determine exactly what this team needs and where.

 

[D-Dogg]

While the OP is correct and he's under contract, the bottom line is the guy is a stud. He's leading the NFL in receiving touchdowns by a wiiiide margin, despite sitting out two games after a vicious hit that ended up in a facial reconstruction that Michael Jackson would have paid big bucks for, and STILL only sat out two games. Upon his return, he's just as violent of a WR force he was before as if he never got hurt.

Pay the man. He's the heart of the team, and they adore him. They look to his toughness and admire it. We are building towards a more physical team. To let our most physical player, who is shockingly on offense, leave the team would be just as bad as 98. We aren't talking about paying lightswitch on/off Jake Plummer here. I can think of no better statement to the team that we are all about laying it on the line, punishing other teams and kicking ass than giving Q the money he's worth. Cap will rise next season, Edge will be donating his salary to Q and the team will march forward.

While paying him will eat up significant cap space, there is no player more worthy of putting the dollars behind. Not paying him is a terrible statement that putting your ass out there and knocking people on their necks won't be respected by the Cards. This is a new regime in Arizona. I fully expect that Q will be extended, will finish his career as a Card and we will replicate this season next year as well, with even more success. Whis is doing a great job with this team. Best coach we've had here, by far. In ten years time, we will have a statue of Boldin outside the stadium, hopefully in honor of a Super Bowl trip or two.

The guy is on a hall of fame path. Pay him. Don't even worry about it. Pay him. Karma will work out in the end.

 

[Mulli]

Donald, I agree, but you forgot something.

The Cardinals need to pay Q. A lot.

 

[Totally_Red]

The contract stuff cuts both ways.

If a team can replace you for less money, they generally don't hesitate. So you may have a contract, but you are no longer employed and don't get the money in the contract. (See Edgerin James after this season.)

Also, teams, even the Cardinals, are free to approach players about restructuring their contracts to lower their salaries(with or without incentives to earn it back). See Bertrand Berry.

So when a player dramatically outplays his contract, and overall salaries dramatically escalate, it is perfectly legitimate and expected that the team and player would revisit that contract to reward the player.

Hey Kurt Warner was making the NFL minimum in 1999, but the Rams didn't hesitate to pay him what they had left under the salary cap that year, and readdress his situation to lock him up long term in the following offseason.

We are talking about one of the three top players on the team and an essential part of the core that Rod Graves talks about retaining. Pay the man!!!!

 

[freebyrd]

Karma will work out in the end.

karma? football teams especially successful ones aren't run on karma,
i know i am taking your quote out of context in relation to the rest of your post but c,mon
is Q a stud? yes does he leave it all on the field week after week? yes
do i like watching him oh these many dismal years,? hell yes he's made what otherwise be a boring contest exciting just from his competitive spirit

is he worth improving our team for a long run as contenders, no
sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it too
i hope this is one of those exceptions in life where we can, if shore him up for the next 5 years or so and get quality free agents in here to improve our weak areas i'm all for it

but does anybody think rod graves is the kind of financial whiz to make that happen?
do i hear crickets? i think i do, graves will get butt raped in negotiations with rosenhous and we'll all be the lesser for it, the team and the fans

boy do i hope i'm wrong but Q is just a man yeah he's a grown ass man with a remarkable ability to heal but he's not superhuman and his style of play while exciting to watch leads to shorter nfl careers the human body can only take so much

jerry rice played an awful long time but he used his speed and quickness to avoid a lot of bone crushing collisions, Q wasn't blessed with those particular attributes but makes up for it with heart and toughness but that won't keep you out of a hospital bed and on the football field

in reality i think Q has two maybe three solid years left in his tank before all the punishment catches up with him
i was in a car wreck in my twenties and ended up with four compression fractures in my spine, didn't bother me much then but as ive gotten older its started giving me problems,

and i would be more than happy to let some rube like jerry jones or arrogant prick like daniel snyder completely overpay us with players and draft picks for a player who's best football is going to be in his rear view mirror real soon

my god i just read in another thread that this is his sixth year with us, has it been that long already?
this could be his swan song anybody see him playing at this level at this style for 2 , 3 , 5, or more years, your letting you man love cloud your judgment
if someone on the receiving staff doesn't get in his ear and tel him to get out of bounds from time to time or do that fitzgerald half ass head first quarterback slide that he does he's gonna end up on a stretcher this is what i don't want to see

i want to see him take us deep into the playoffs this year, perhaps even to the promised land, if he has a good game at the superbowl sign him for a reasonable amount if he has a monster mvp performance strike while the irons hot, and make us a contender for years to come
heartless maybe but as much as we love it football is a business and sometimes needs to be treated as such without all the emotional strings attached
god bless you Q and thanks for the fantastic effort an memories

freebyrd

 

[joeshmo]

So when a player dramatically outplays his contract, and overall salaries dramatically escalate, it is perfectly legitimate and expected that the team and player would revisit that contract to reward the player.

Here is where that makes zero sense though. Boldin did an extension knowing full well that a new CBA was coming up. Knowing full well that the cap was going to go up dramatically, knowing full well that he was going to be a lifetime pro bowler. Salaries jump big time every season, they jump even more over two total seasons. So what you are saying is that a player should do is ask for a restructure ever other season considering that any player who signed a deal just two years ago will now be dramatically underpaid in todays market. That just doesnt fly IMO.

If you dont want to be underpaid in year two of your new deal then only sign two year deals. The players want the security of a big bonus and long years but they also dont want to ever be underpaid. Take the security of big money long term deals or take the gamble of always making what you are worth in short term deals. You cant have it both ways. Goes for all players, not just Boldin, so this isnt a pay Boldin issue its a philisophical idea about restructuring so early into a new contract.

Heck if Boldin keeps playing like he is he is going and gets a new deal today then he is going to be underpaid again in year two of that new deal again and we are going to be right were we started again. Should he be looking into restructuring again?

 

[joeshmo]

Edge is in the second tear of a 4 year $30 million contract. Leinart in the second of a 6 year $50 million one. Trade them both in the off season. Edge doesn't really fit the offense, and with Tim and J.R. he is superfluous. Matty is overpaid and over rated. We could get a decent deal for both (I'm pretty sure senile Al Davis would pay through the nose for Mr. USC) cut major $$$ off of out cap room and pay Q, Dansby and other impact players. Pick up Kurt's understudy (of course the FIRST thing we do is re-sign him) in the draft, go for quality and not name recognition this time.

Trading Q is just plain ********. But fortunatly, Whiz is no Denny Green, so it ain't happening.

Edge will be in the final year of his deal next year. Easily cuttable with little cap hit and at his age, production, and cost(salary and draft picks given up) he will not garner any attention what so ever on the trade market.

Matt is only currently making good backup QB money. He is currently making about 3 Mill less then Warner is right now (after Warner hits his incentives). Matt hasnt been playing so he hasnt hit most of his big time incentives. We dont have to worry about Matts cap value until the 2010 season when he is due a big time escalator. But until then he is cheap on the cap.

 

[Shane]

Here is where that makes zero sense though. Boldin did an extension knowing full well that a new CBA was coming up. Knowing full well that the cap was going to go up dramatically, knowing full well that he was going to be a lifetime pro bowler. Salaries jump big time every season, they jump even more over two total seasons. So what you are saying is that a player should do is ask for a restructure ever other season considering that any player who signed a deal just two years ago will now be dramatically underpaid in todays market. That just doesnt fly IMO.

If you dont want to be underpaid in year two of your new deal then only sign two year deals. The players want the security of a big bonus and long years but they also dont want to ever be underpaid. Take the security of big money long term deals or take the gamble of always making what you are worth in short term deals. You cant have it both ways. Goes for all players, not just Boldin, so this isnt a pay Boldin issue its a philisophical idea about restructuring so early into a new contract.

Heck if Boldin keeps playing like he is he is going and gets a new deal today then he is going to be underpaid again in year two of that new deal again and we are going to be right were we started again. Should he be looking into restructuring again?

Lets be honest Joe what do you think the odds are that Boldin knew and thought about all of that? Hes a smart man but again he is an athlete and you can bet takes most of what his agent tells him to do as the gospel. You know damn well Rosenhaus was saying we will get what we can now and if we need to to we can strong arm them later.

I agree with you in principle. But lets be real? If the team promised to redo Q like he says they did if he made it to another PB then they should pay him. I am inclined to believe him that the team did promise him smothing because they approached him and tried to extend him albeit with a shiddy offer.

Correct me if Im wrong Joe but when Q signed that deal it was an extension of a rookie 2nd round deal and he had only had one dominant season and PB appearance. His contract even at that time didnt make him a top 10 paid WR IIRC?

I also dont buy that Q knew your bolded statement above. Especially considering that the year he signed the deal he had just come back from a knee injury and was nowhere near the same level as his rookie season.

 

[joeshmo]

Another thing we aren't considering is that there is a legitimate chance that we will be seeing an uncapped year when Boldin's contract is up. I would hate to let him get to that point knowing someone like Dallas or Washington can pay him more then we will ever be able to.

The uncapped year is not a free for all. In fact it will be ten times more restrictive then today. Examples of some of the uncapped year rules.

1. Today you have to have 4 years in the league before you can cash in on unrestricted free agency. In the uncapped years you have to wait 6 years. Drastically rising the amount of restricted free agents and dramatically lowering the amount of unrestricted free agents being able to cash in on the uncapped year.

2. Teams will now have the ability to not only use one franchise tag but would now be able to use the franchise tag on two different players in any given year.

3. Big time restrictions on the top 8 teams at the time to sign players.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/06/labor/index.html

This uncapped year will never happen because it actually greatly restricts players from making their money. It will not be some sort of free for all money bonanza for the players in fact it will be the opposite.

 

[joeshmo]

Lets be honest Joe what do you think the odds are that Boldin knew and thought about all of that? Hes a smart man but again he is an athlete and you can bet takes most of what his agent tells him to do as the gospel. You know damn well Rosenhaus was saying we will get what we can now and if we need to to we can strong arm them later.

Then it is still Boldins fault for following that advice without doing research of his own. Boldins a big boy. Example - I think 9 times out of 10 it is the fault of homeowners who have to foreclose on their house becuase they were to greedy and didnt read the fine print or research what and ARM loan could do to them down the road. If Drew told Boldin that last sentance then it is full well on Boldins head because his agent flat out told him so.

I agree with you in principle. But lets be real? If the team promised to redo Q like he says they did if he made it to another PB then they should pay him. I am inclined to believe him that the team did promise him smothing because they approached him and tried to extend him albeit with a shiddy offer.

We agree, Cards made that mistake. Just argueing the overall principle of Reds idea.

Correct me if Im wrong Joe but when Q signed that deal it was an extension of a rookie 2nd round deal and he had only had one dominant season and PB appearance. His contract even at that time didnt make him a top 10 paid WR IIRC?

Before he got injured the last 6 games of the year he was on pace to do even better then his pro bowl rookie season.

I also dont buy that Q knew your bolded statement above. Especially considering that the year he signed the deal he had just come back from a knee injury and was nowhere near the same level as his rookie season.

It wasnt an big ACL injury though, it was a 8-12 week recovery time knee injury. He was ready to go for mini camps after his injury. He was fully healthy at the time they started negotiating. In fact they waited until he was ready to go before they got serious. And if he didnt know it and would want more money later once he did know it, he shouldnt have signed a 4 year extension then. He should have taken the original two year extension they were offering, or put big escalators the final years of the deal to force a renegotiation. Again that is part of Drew not negotiating properly but Drew is Boldins employee so it falls on Boldins head.

In the end Boldin will sit down again and try to get a new deal at seasons end. Even said so in his recent interview that he and the team will "revisit" the issue again. Far cry for dont talk to me ever again speeches.

 

[seesred]

IMO Q should be signed at the end of this season if at all possable. Bigger problems this might cause could change many things.

Adrian Wilson
Kurt Warner
Karlos Dansby
Antrel Rolle
JJ
Antonio Smith?

Just to mention a few that need new deals.

GBR
40

 

[freebyrd]

Far cry for dont talk to me ever again speeches.

that was pure hyperbole, you don't make statements like that unless your negotiating from a position of power,
and since he was already under contract, the front office probably laughed their ass off at that

i hope michael Bidwill holds the line and hammers out something thats equatable to both the player and the team,

and i'm all for cutting edge unless he's willing to rework his deal ala bertrand berry, but i believe he is very egomaniacal
but trading or cutting leinert shouldn't even be up for discussion we don't truly know what we got look at kerry collins playing for an undefeated team he's bounced around and had some highs and lows but when the panthers drafted him they developed him and had success with him running the offense
matt will be the future of our franchise due to many factors but one of the greatest benefits is his competition and tutelage of kurt warner

bulger had that benefit and he is/was a good quarterback his supporting cast and coaching staff have let him down

and in new york young gun eli manning rode the bench behind kurt and learned how a pro runs a game, and kurt and eli didn't have nearly as much talent on offense as we do,
we have to run what we brung (and old drag racing term) when i used to do that,
matt has all the tools he can learn to handle himself as a pro as kurt hands over the reighns to him, the one thing we need to discover about leinert is if he has the intangibles which you can't teach, but we need to find out

freebyrd