Question about the called back pick six

[football karma]

Ding ding ding!

I watched the Packers-Lions game with a Detroit fanatic and I said at the time, how in God's name do you let the defenders all end up BEHIND the receiver on a hail mary?

You can't let that happen at any level of football, ever. It's Pop Warner 101 that you make the receiver have to go over the top of the pack and make a miracle catch.

so strange

on 4th and 20 -- why does Justin Bethel just stop running with Jeff Janis? It was like the thought the play was over

on the hail mary: Patrick Peterson acted like there was no GB receiver -- strangely passive especially considering that as long as he as playing the ball, there would be no pass interference called

 

[cardpa]

so strange

on 4th and 20 -- why does Justin Bethel just stop running with Jeff Janis? It was like the thought the play was over

on the hail mary: Patrick Peterson acted like there was no GB receiver -- strangely passive especially considering that as long as he as playing the ball, there would be no pass interference called

This is the one that really got me. From the end zone camera he just stopped running with Janis and looked around like he was expecting a safety to come over to pick Janis up and then realized no one was coming over then started to run to try and catch up with Janis way too late. It seems there is a lot of confusion in the secondary as of late. I am wondering if they shouldn't put Powers back outside and either have Jefferson or Swearinger cover the slot. Bethel isn't playing bad but he seems to be making big mistakes at the worse possible times.

 

[jbeecham]

That play should've been called back anyways for a blatant hands to the face on the GB O-lineman against Calais Campbell (I think it was him). Campbell has a chance to sack Rodgers in the end zone as Rodgers is rolling out and the o-lineman just goes straight to his facemask and shoves his head backwards giving Rodgers an extra 2-3 seconds to get the pass off.

If you're going to call that on Rucker to negate an interception by Patrick Peterson that was returned 100 yards for a TD then you have to call it on GB. Commiting that penalty in the end zone should result in a safety, which would've put us up by 9 & given us the ball back with under 2 minutes to go in the game.

The refs were spineless cowards all night long and seemed to do everything they could to keep GB in the game. The way I saw it, they took 9 points away from us (PP TD & safety) & gave GB an extra 10 points (FG after PP TD & final regulation TD fail mary that hit the ground before it was secured). Glad we still won, but I was so pissed about the officiating that I couldn't even enjoy the victory.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That play should've been called back anyways for a blatant hands to the face on the GB O-lineman against Calais Campbell (I think it was him). Campbell has a chance to sack Rodgers in the end zone as Rodgers is rolling out and the o-lineman just goes straight to his facemask and shoves his head backwards giving Rodgers an extra 2-3 seconds to get the pass off.

If you're going to call that on Rucker to negate an interception by Patrick Peterson that was returned 100 yards for a TD then you have to call it on GB. Commiting that penalty in the end zone should result in a safety, which would've put us up by 9 & given us the ball back with under 2 minutes to go in the game.

The refs were spineless cowards all night long and seemed to do everything they could to keep GB in the game. The way I saw it, they took 9 points away from us (PP TD & safety) & gave GB an extra 10 points (FG after PP TD & final regulation TD fail mary that hit the ground before it was secured). Glad we still won, but I was so pissed about the officiating that I couldn't even enjoy the victory.

That last sentence is really sad.

And for all the bitching you guys are doing about the officiating, we were NEVER called for holding, bethel got away with clear PI on a bomb at the end of the game, we got REALLY generous spots on two MASSIVE first downs, the packers also got a HUGE bomb called back on a great catch by 18.

Bottom line... The refs were terrible on BOTH sides. Thinking otherwise reeks of rose colored glasses. And not being able to enjoy the win because of the refs is probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my entire life on this board. I mean, REALLY?!

 

[jbeecham]

That last sentence is really sad.

And for all the bitching you guys are doing about the officiating, we were NEVER called for holding, bethel got away with clear PI on a bomb at the end of the game, we got REALLY generous spots on two MASSIVE first downs, the packers also got a HUGE bomb called back on a great catch by 18.

Bottom line... The refs were terrible on BOTH sides. Thinking otherwise reeks of rose colored glasses. And not being able to enjoy the win because of the refs is probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my entire life on this board. I mean, REALLY?!

The refs may have been terrible on both sides calling holds & pass interferences, but when did they give the Cardinals points that they didn't deserve? They didn't. The tying TD to force overtime hit the ground before it was secured. The play was reviewed & STILL upheld. I'll post video if you want to see it again.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/688580098539294721?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

35 seconds in... even the announcers know it hits the ground and Collinsworth loves himself some cheesehead.

 

[Buckybird]

Ding ding ding!

I watched the Packers-Lions game with a Detroit fanatic and I said at the time, how in God's name do you let the defenders all end up BEHIND the receiver on a hail mary?

You can't let that happen at any level of football, ever. It's Pop Warner 101 that you make the receiver have to go over the top of the pack and make a miracle catch.

And to add to that Rashad just stood there like he was watching for PP to make the play! Amazed by his lack of effort on the last play. He did nothing until the catch was made & Janis is laying on the ground.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The refs may have been terrible on both sides calling holds & pass interferences, but when did they give the Cardinals points that they didn't deserve? They didn't.

Oh really? Watching the game for the first time and on Floyd's doink TD to take the lead Jaron Brown gets away with a MASSIVE offensive PI, setting a pick, doing nothing BUT BLOCKING to try and spring Fitz before the defender knocks the ball in the air. That was absolutely a penalty and the TD should have come back.

Next series, Powers pretty clearly interferes on 3rd and 5 on a pass out to #83... no call again and that would have been a first down, which means we don't get the ball at the 20 and we don't get a FG.

Those were two MASSIVE calls that led directly to points.

Oh, and then Bethel gets away with BLATANT pass interference on 3rd and 20.

It's just that those calls were stuff we GOT AWAY with, but in your mind, we NEVER get away with ANYTHING... even though we've been the LEAST penalized team in the league and our opponents have been the MOST penalized the entire season!

The tying TD to force overtime hit the ground before it was secured. The play was reviewed & STILL upheld. I'll post video if you want to see it again.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/688580098539294721?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

35 seconds in... even the announcers know it hits the ground and Collinsworth loves himself some cheesehead.

waiting to see this one on my big screen.

But my question is why wasn't there a ten second run-off? Live ball foul there's not a ten second run-off... that's the rule, huh?

 

[Russ Smith]

Oh really? Watching the game for the first time and on Floyd's doink TD to take the lead Jaron Brown gets away with a MASSIVE offensive PI, setting a pick, doing nothing BUT BLOCKING to try and spring Fitz before the defender knocks the ball in the air. That was absolutely a penalty and the TD should have come back.

Next series, Powers pretty clearly interferes on 3rd and 5 on a pass out to #83... no call again and that would have been a first down, which means we don't get the ball at the 20 and we don't get a FG.

Those were two MASSIVE calls that led directly to points.

Oh, and then Bethel gets away with BLATANT pass interference on 3rd and 20.

It's just that those calls were stuff we GOT AWAY with, but in your mind, we NEVER get away with ANYTHING... even though we've been the LEAST penalized team in the league and our opponents have been the MOST penalized the entire season!



waiting to see this one on my big screen.

agree on Brown and Bethel but now Powers. He did everything required there he turned to look, the ball hit his hand and then there's contact.

And on the Brown play it's offsetting PI because teh guy who tips it has his right arm wrapped around Fitz, he used it to slingshot himself forward to get the tip.

Bethel was clear interference, no idea how they didn't call it.

Bethel frankly scares me, he blew so many plays yesterday.

 

[Cheesebeef]

agree on Brown and Bethel but now Powers. He did everything required there he turned to look, the ball hit his hand and then there's contact.

man, I don't know. It looked like he turned to look, but his hand hit that guy's arm before the ball got there.

As for the hail mary hitting the ground... there's literally not ONE shot that shows that conclusively.

we got the benefit of the doubt on massive first down spots that were iffy, there were a lot of PIs that didn't get called, we never got called for holding ONCE and somehow we got screwed by the refs? That's ridiculous guys. Those refs were atrocious ALL THE WAY around.

 

[Russ Smith]

man, I don't know. It looked like he turned to look, but his hand hit that guy's arm before the ball got there.

As for the hail mary hitting the ground... there's literally not ONE shot that shows that conclusively.

we got the benefit of the doubt on massive first down spots that were iffy, there were a lot of PIs that didn't get called, we never got called for holding ONCE and somehow we got screwed by the refs? That's ridiculous guys. Those refs were atrocious ALL THE WAY around.

I think it touched but too late as Collinsworth said.

He had the ball laying on him then got control, and then Johnson hit it and it moved and touched but too late.

It shouldn't have counted anyways though, they literally tackled Campbell. There's a video of it on youtube, at about the 16 second mark if you stop it you'll see the OL literally grab CC's head and shove his helmet down and then pull him to the ground.

I actually think that's why Freeney stops on the play in hindsight, I think he saw the hold and figured no matter what happens it's a penalty,

Unreal throw though, Rodgers can't even see Janis when he makes that throw because of the angle his body is in.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it touched but too late as Collinsworth said.

He had the ball laying on him then got control, and then Johnson hit it and it moved and touched but too late.

It shouldn't have counted anyways though, they literally tackled Campbell. There's a video of it on youtube, at about the 16 second mark if you stop it you'll see the OL literally grab CC's head and shove his helmet down and then pull him to the ground.

agree to disagree. I just watched that play multiple times. You watch that play in real-time and Calais goes in low and the guy basically pushes him to the ground when he's already lost his balance.

There were other non-holding calls earlier in the game, but that one? that's not a penalty in the least. and the idea that Freeney "stopped" playing because he saw it? I mean, come on. If that's what a superstar vet does in that situation at that point of a game, he's the biggest idiot in the world and I don't believe Freeney to be the biggest idiot in the world.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I could be wrong but I could swear Rodgers was past the line of scrimmage on one of his touchdown passes or one that was in our red zone... the tv angle can be deceiving though

 

[jbeecham]

I already stated that the refs didn't call any holding or pass interferences for either team.

My beef was that if they're going to call a "hands to the face" penalty against us to negate a big play (while ignoring GB's guy with his hand in Rucker's face 1st & blatant o-line holding against CC on the same play) then they should have called the blatant hands to the face on GB's last drive when Rodgers was throwing out of his endzone to negate that big play.

Look, I hate it when the refs "let them play"... the rules are there for a reason, enforce them, but if they've made it clear that things aren't going to be called then at least be consistent & call it the same way for both teams. The facemask against CC in the endzone was 10x worse that Rucker's quick tap to the facemask that stopped an INT for a TD.

As for the fail mary, he loses control of the ball on the way to the ground & it's sitting in his lap & his hands aren't on the ball. He has an elbow on the ball, but is that really possession when neither hand is on the ball before it's punched out & hits the ground? The catch rules are so confusing & I think the refs got caught up in the excitement and then were too scared to overturn it. Unless you can catch a ball with your abs without ever really having control... if that's in the rules then I'll withdraw my complaint.

 

[Russ Smith]

agree to disagree. I just watched that play multiple times. You watch that play in real-time and Calais goes in low and the guy basically pushes him to the ground when he's already lost his balance.

There were other non-holding calls earlier in the game, but that one? that's not a penalty in the least. and the idea that Freeney "stopped" playing because he saw it? I mean, come on. If that's what a superstar vet does in that situation at that point of a game, he's the biggest idiot in the world and I don't believe Freeney to be the biggest idiot in the world.

Freeney is on the other side as is jefferson. They both rushed from the left side, Rodgers rolls to the other side to avoid Campbell which is why the hold happened at all. Jefferson gets cut by a RB and then keeps going, Freeney stays on the other side of the field. He was so far away from Rodgers he wasn't going to get there anyways but it sure looked like he saw Campbell go down and figured this play is coming back regardless.

This might not be the best picture I just froze the youtube and then took a still with my cellphone. This is just after Bakhtiari grabs the head/helmet and starts pushing it down if you continue it forward he drives the head down and pulls CC to the ground. As Mike Golic said on ESPN2, what does Calais campbell have to do to get a call at the end of the game. The first hail mary Sitton grabs his facemask, on this one Bakhtiari literally tackles him by pulling his helmet down.

Golic doesn't seem to be a Cards fan, he's picking Carolina and he thought we played very poorly against GB, but he said that's why Arians blitzes in that situation he knows for a fact the refs aren't going to call anything so he's going to do everything he can to get pressure on Rodgers.

 

[Russ Smith]

I could be wrong but I could swear Rodgers was past the line of scrimmage on one of his touchdown passes or one that was in our red zone... the tv angle can be deceiving though

That one earlier in the game I checked and he was actually well short of the LOS. He followed through after he threw it which made it look closer than it was.

 

[Russ Smith]

I already stated that the refs didn't call any holding or pass interferences for either team.

My beef was that if they're going to call a "hands to the face" penalty against us to negate a big play (while ignoring GB's guy with his hand in Rucker's face 1st & blatant o-line holding against CC on the same play) then they should have called the blatant hands to the face on GB's last drive when Rodgers was throwing out of his endzone to negate that big play.

Look, I hate it when the refs "let them play"... the rules are there for a reason, enforce them, but if they've made it clear that things aren't going to be called then at least be consistent & call it the same way for both teams. The facemask against CC in the endzone was 10x worse that Rucker's quick tap to the facemask that stopped an INT for a TD.

As for the fail mary, he loses control of the ball on the way to the ground & it's sitting in his lap & his hands aren't on the ball. He has an elbow on the ball, but is that really possession when neither hand is on the ball before it's punched out & hits the ground? The catch rules are so confusing & I think the refs got caught up in the excitement and then were too scared to overturn it. Unless you can catch a ball with your abs without ever really having control... if that's in the rules then I'll withdraw my complaint.

yes bceause he resecured the ball before Johnson punched it causing it to hit the ground. I've watched that part of it countless times, it's a catch.

 

[SO91]

I think it touched but too late as Collinsworth said.

He had the ball laying on him then got control, and then Johnson hit it and it moved and touched but too late.

It shouldn't have counted anyways though, they literally tackled Campbell. There's a video of it on youtube, at about the 16 second mark if you stop it you'll see the OL literally grab CC's head and shove his helmet down and then pull him to the ground.

I actually think that's why Freeney stops on the play in hindsight, I think he saw the hold and figured no matter what happens it's a penalty,

Unreal throw though, Rodgers can't even see Janis when he makes that throw because of the angle his body is in.

So many cameras at an NFL playoff game and I still haven't seen another angle of the Hail Mary play from start to finish. If you have that link, I'd love to see it.

 

[Russ Smith]

So many cameras at an NFL playoff game and I still haven't seen another angle of the Hail Mary play from start to finish. If you have that link, I'd love to see it.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Again watch Rodgers on the throw, it's unreal he got that ball into the endzone from that far away given how his body is contorted when he threw it.

 

[SO91]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fjE1B6VcZE

Again watch Rodgers on the throw, it's unreal he got that ball into the endzone from that far away given how his body is contorted when he threw it.

That's the same replay I've seen, and the same angles they've shown, but nothing from the other cameras.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's the same replay I've seen, and the same angles they've shown, but nothing from the other cameras.

Yeah that's essentially the Fox feed, even with the announcers.

I agree there are clearly more angles we have not seen but FOX was so fixated on the catch they didn't look at anything else.

I can't get over the throw though, the arm strength and body control there is unreal. FOX said only a few QB's ever played that could make that throw at the same it sounded like hyperbole but when you watch that replay it's true.

 

[jf-08]

If Frostee's Hands to the Face penalty wasn't called, PP21 still had his taunting call as he was running back the INT towards the endzone. What would be the outcome of that penalty?

Would it have been assessed on the ensuing kickoff of would it have been a spot foul because he was still in the field of play and the play wasn't over yet?

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Frostee's Hands to the Face penalty wasn't called, PP21 still had his taunting call as he was running back the INT towards the endzone. What would be the outcome of that penalty?

Would it have been assessed on the ensuing kickoff of would it have been a spot foul because he was still in the field of play and the play wasn't over yet?

think it's assessed on the kickoff.

 

[Shaggy]

There were 3 (THREE) fouls called on the play... 2 against the Cards and one against the Packers. The fouls all offset and the down was replayed.

The down wasn't replayed. GB got the 5 yrds and a first down. It wasn't replayed.

 

[oaken1]

one note about the officiating.

Never before have I had a season where I see a play and jump up yelling CRAP!!,..then switch to ...Oh Goody, oh goody!!.....because an obvious penalty was missed by the crew..................four or five times a game.

 

[AZfaninMN]

After rewatching the game, there were a couple of missed calls by both teams. JV was beat once to the outside and had a hold of peppers and no call. I would say they let the boys play and honestly I agree. Outside of the last play I don't think really any should have been called because they weren't extremely obvious. The Hail Mary I think should have been a penalty but there were a couple of times in the secondary we got away with some stuff too.


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