Question about VJ

[slanidrac16]

So bracing for the fact VJ remains here is like to ask the more knowledgeable X’ s and O guys for some insight.
1. When we hear a “ Vance Joseph” defense, is it actually a his design?
2. Do or should we take into account the talent or lack there of for the results?
3. Is he forced to come up with an exotic scheme to try to get pressure on the QB?
4. Is he forced to move players around and or out of position?
5. Would a VJ defense be better with better personnel?
6. If Aramuno is hired can a VJ defense be tweaked?
7. Finally , how much can we hold VJ accountable when most of us agree there is a severe lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball?
After all you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

Thanks.

 

[MadCardDisease]

1. NO
2. NO
3. NO
4. NO
5. YES
6. YES
7. A LITTLE

 

[Chopper0080]

So bracing for the fact VJ remains here is like to ask the more knowledgeable X’ s and O guys for some insight.
1. When we hear a “ Vance Joseph” defense, is it actually a his design?
2. Do or should we take into account the talent or lack there of for the results?
3. Is he forced to come up with an exotic scheme to try to get pressure on the QB?
4. Is he forced to move players around and or out of position?
5. Would a VJ defense be better with better personnel?
6. If Aramuno is hired can a VJ defense be tweaked?
7. Finally , how much can we hold VJ accountable when most of us agree there is a severe lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball?
After all you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

Thanks.

1-No. Wade Phillips scheme.
2-No excuse for bottom 10 defense.
3-Yes but his pressure schemes aren't exotic.
4-No.
5-Obviously but will never be top 10.
6-Sure
7-Same as #2.

 

[Stout]

So bracing for the fact VJ remains here is like to ask the more knowledgeable X’ s and O guys for some insight.
1. When we hear a “ Vance Joseph” defense, is it actually a his design?
2. Do or should we take into account the talent or lack there of for the results?
3. Is he forced to come up with an exotic scheme to try to get pressure on the QB?
4. Is he forced to move players around and or out of position?
5. Would a VJ defense be better with better personnel?
6. If Aramuno is hired can a VJ defense be tweaked?
7. Finally , how much can we hold VJ accountable when most of us agree there is a severe lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball?
After all you can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

Thanks.

1--The only design I see is the "bend but eventually break" defense
2--No. VJ must go
3--He doesn't get pressure on the QB
4--Probably, because our personnel does stink
5--Only somewhat
6--No. It should be dumped.
7--A lot. We had a wonderful combo of crap in the coach and crap in defensive personnel.

Let's not try to put lipstick on the pig that is VJ's coaching.

 

[slanidrac16]

1--The only design I see is the "bend but eventually break" defense
2--No. VJ must go
3--He doesn't get pressure on the QB
4--Probably, because our personnel does stink
5--Only somewhat
6--No. It should be dumped.
7--A lot. We had a wonderful combo of crap in the coach and crap in defensive personnel.

Let's not try to put lipstick on the pig that is VJ's coaching.

I sincerely asked because there is a lot of the posters here that understand the X’s and O’s. So I was curious if it’s the lack of talent or bad scheme.
So with the dearth of talent should this defense have been better?

 

[oaken1]

Vance Joseph uses a philosophy that is technically sound...and it works great when its working.
during our awesome start last year we were 3rd in scoring defense which is awesome... but we were getting crazy turnovers... I dont know the exact numbers but we had to be +20 through 12 weeks.
but then the turnovers stopped, the T.O.P. flipped on us, and the offense couldnt score enough to make the difference.

if we had 2 ballhawks in the secondary and a front 4 that could generate sacks on their own Vances defense would be great.

But, so would just about anyone elses defense.

Better players would help/// if some how we added Anderson, Carter, and Gonzales in the draft and kept who we have our defense would be much better next year even with rookies playing.

 

[Stout]

I sincerely asked because there is a lot of the posters here that understand the X’s and O’s. So I was curious if it’s the lack of talent or bad scheme.
So with the dearth of talent should this defense have been better?

Oh, yeah, I'm not one of the good Xs and Os guys

With the dearth of talent this defense shouldn't have been good, but yes, better. We should at the minimum have been putting our rookies and young players in good positions to succeed, and should've actually been playing them a ton. VJ's over-reliance on nobody never-has-been vets over youth hamstrings the team.

 

[FB94]

If VJ is retained as DC, Monty better lay down the gauntlet that the days of rooks riding the pine are over. Next year is the perfect year to have them get playing time, and depending the player extended playing time.

 

[Outerlimits]

I just don't understand how they smartly decide on a fresh start in most aspects but keep a DC who led a very underwhelming defense(to put it nicely). That is basically sabotaging the next HC.

Granted, at least Lou has the ability to overcome that obstacle to an extent but Kafka would be completely reliant on VJ leading the defense.

 

[slanidrac16]

I just don't understand how they smartly decide on a fresh start in most aspects but keep a DC who led a very underwhelming defense(to put it nicely). That is basically sabotaging the next HC.

Granted, at least Lou has the ability to overcome that obstacle to an extent but Kafka would be completely reliant on VJ leading the defense.

Yes. That’s why I posed the question. Would Anamuro insist on tweaking VJ’s defense and would an influx of talent improve this defense to the middle of the pack.
Would Anamuro switch us to mainly 4-3?
Monet’ would have a hard time painting with sticks. I’ve convinced myself VJ is here to stay.
No matter who is the head coach he is not going to turn this defense into a top 10 defense this year. However a better balanced offense could help this defense a little too.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

The way I look at it, this is similar to when Arians was hired and what other teams do often ...Give their incoming HC a chance to interview existing staff, to see if their is a mutual fit. If not, just like Horton with BA and Evero with Payton, they are released to find other positions.

 

[Metcalf Rules]

I have a feeling the coach is going to be Kafka and Vance stays. The Cardinals, picking at 3, will be able to draft either the top rated or second rated defensive player. I think if you’re drafting that high, you can’t afford to let that draft pick sit the bench. He’s got to contribute.

 

[Chopper0080]

I have a feeling the coach is going to be Kafka and Vance stays. The Cardinals, picking at 3, will be able to draft either the top rated or second rated defensive player. I think if you’re drafting that high, you can’t afford to let that draft pick sit the bench. He’s got to contribute.

With all of the connections between Lou and Vance, familiarity of scheme, and time frame of the hiring, I would expect Lou to keep Vance.

 

[Outerlimits]

The way I look at it, this is similar to when Arians was hired and what other teams do often ...Give their incoming HC a chance to interview existing staff, to see if their is a mutual fit. If not, just like Horton with BA and Evero with Payton, they are released to find other positions.

Perhaps. Although Payton has significant HC experience unlike the two top candidates for our current job. Plus would the organization want VJ who has prior HC experience to stay and "help" the young Kafka much like he was supposedly doing for a young Kliff?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Perhaps. Although Payton has significant HC experience unlike the two top candidates for our current job. Plus would the organization want VJ who has prior HC experience to stay and "help" the young Kafka much like he was supposedly doing for a young Kliff?

Vance wasn't already in house for Kliff, though...he was brought in the same year. If they want an experience DC to come in and help the new HC, they can still look outside the organization. No need to keep Vance, even though it sounds like each and every player on that side of the ball loves the guy. Maybe with a bit more talent and no more camp cupcake he can do something with the defense, but I'm not counting on it.

I mentioned somewhere, if they want an assistant with experience to help Kafka, I'd prefer it to be on the offensive side of the ball, this time, so he can actually concentrate on things outside of just the offense, like Kliff had to do. Go get some DC who's looking to make a name for himself and can create a scheme bringing heat.

 

[MadCardDisease]

If they want an experience DC to come in and help the new HC, they can still look outside the organization.

We are talking about Bidwill. That guy is already under contract.

 

[PDXChris]

I feel he did some ok things with what he had and have to deal with a 3 and out offense. I don't think he is innovative enough or knows how to develop talent. We are going to lose Simmons, and he'll become a stud somewhere else that understands how to use him. It's time for fresh blood.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

We are talking about Bidwill. That guy is already under contract.

He is, sure, but it's pennies compared to what he just burned in the fire with Kliff and Keim.

 

[oaken1]

He is, sure, but it's pennies compared to what he just burned in the fire with Kliff and Keim.

he didnt eat anything with Keim. Steve resigned.

 

[Harry]

Before injuries destroyed the defehndive side of the ball I actually heard people say he was a candidate for HC interviews. He had a weak secondary and no experienced, quality pass rushers, Golden included. He had no real anchor DT. I’m not sure he got a fair shake. The defense was lousy, but he only had about 4-5 weapons. They were on the field too much. I’m not saying he’s a great DC. I’m just saying it’s hard to say he did a bad job, especially in a passing league.

 

[slanidrac16]

Before injuries destroyed the defehndive side of the ball I actually heard people say he was a candidate for HC interviews. He had a weak secondary and no experienced, quality pass rushers, Golden included. He had no real anchor DT. I’m not sure he got a fair shake. The defense was lousy, but he only had about 4-5 weapons. They were on the field too much. I’m not saying he’s a great DC. I’m just saying it’s hard to say he did a bad job, especially in a passing league.

That’s really why I posed the question. It’s hard to judge a carpenter if he’s hammering nails with his shoe.
Like you said, no pass rush, secondary was weak to start before the injuries.
So could he get this group to the middle of the pack with a little influx of talent?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

That’s really why I posed the question. It’s hard to judge a carpenter if he’s hammering nails with his shoe.
Like you said, no pass rush, secondary was weak to start before the injuries.
So could he get this group to the middle of the pack with a little influx of talent?

Keim Time!

 

[AZCB34]

I feel he did some ok things with what he had and have to deal with a 3 and out offense. I don't think he is innovative enough or knows how to develop talent. We are going to lose Simmons, and he'll become a stud somewhere else that understands how to use him. It's time for fresh blood.

I’m not so sure Simmons gets better anywhere else. I feel like this is a what you see is what you get kind of thing

 

[Stout]

Before injuries destroyed the defehndive side of the ball I actually heard people say he was a candidate for HC interviews. He had a weak secondary and no experienced, quality pass rushers, Golden included. He had no real anchor DT. I’m not sure he got a fair shake. The defense was lousy, but he only had about 4-5 weapons. They were on the field too much. I’m not saying he’s a great DC. I’m just saying it’s hard to say he did a bad job, especially in a passing league.

He was abysmal at teaching, developing, or even playing the young talent he DID have. He had a negative developmental impact in a lost season while favoring never-has-been vets. He was a bad DC.

 

[PDXChris]

I’m not so sure Simmons gets better anywhere else. I feel like this is a what you see is what you get kind of thing

Probably, I guess we could find out this year if we get a new DC.