Questions Abound for Cardinals in Free Agency

Mitch

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The first question is...how many of yesterday's signings would have been wise for the Cardinals to make, given the numbers?

1. CB Nate Clements @ 8 yrs/$80M? This contract is insane. There is no way I would have paid Clements $10M per. And it's contracts like this one that totally screw up free agent signings now and for years to come.

2. G/T Derrick Dockery @ 7 yrs./$49M. The Cardinals apparently were coveting Dockery...but, they would have had to be convinced that he could be the answer at LT to pay him this kind of money. This is a Leonard Davis scenario all over again...because Dockery is best suited to play guard. In light of these numbers...it's just as well that Buffalo signed him.

3. G/T Eric Steinbach @ 7 yrs./$49.5M. This is a contract I would have accepted because Steinbach is a leader and a highly versatile player. I am disappointed the Cardinals didn't make him their number one priority.

4. FB Ovie Mughelli @ 6 yrs./$18M. Mughelli has really had one good year as a starter...in fact this is what Lindy's said of Mughelli going into last season: "Solid special teams player who has never developed into reliable fullback." Apparently Mughelli becomes the first FB to make $3M a year. Atlanta better hope this risk reaps the right rewards.

5. OLB Adalius Thomas...not sure of the exact numbers yet, but apparently he has $20M in guaranteed money heading his way. This is interesting because the Patriots paid big money three years ago to sign the most highly coveted UFA OLB at that time, Roosevelt Colvin...and due to injuries, Colvin has not been the player he was in Chicago and has really only turned in one full season (this past year). Guaranteeing $20M is a high risk, regardless of who the player is.

The only one of these contracts that would have made sense to me is Steinbach's.

Now...what's in store for the Cardinals?

C Al Johnson who lost his starting job to Andre Gurode is the most attractive prospect. Johnson was slowed by injuries in Dallas, which opened the door for Gurode and Gurode slammed that door shut. Adding Johnson to the mix would solidify the Cardinals depth in the middle. To get Johnson, however, the Cardinals will likely have to offer $2.5-3M a year, which would be over twice the salary C Nick Leckey will make next year ($1.3M). Signing Johnson for competition and depth would be nice...but it's quite possible that Johnson would be collecting his $3M on the sidelines if Leckey retains the job...which I believe he would and should.

Wouldn't it be better for the Cardinals to draft a good young center for depth behing Leckey?

I am still hoping that the Cardinals can make a draft day trade to acquire C Ryan Kalil of USC. The Cards will likely have to move up from #38 to the 28-32 range to snag Kalil.

T Mike Gandy? Call me crazy but I think Brandon Gorin is as good or better than any of the tackle prospects out there right now. Gorin, with the right coaching and motivation, will be a pleasant surprise. Just the same, it's looking more possible by the day that T Joe Thomas will be sitting there for the Cardinals to pluck at #5.

CB Roderick Hood is an attractive prospect, IMO. He's an aggressive young player who has been well taught in Philadelphia. I also think that CB Travis Fisher might be a steal if he can stay healthy. If the Cards could sign Hood to a three or four year deal and sign Fisher to an incentive laden deal, I would feel better about the Cardinals depth at CB. I also remain high on 2nd year man Darrell Hunter because of his great speed.

At FS the player I like the best is Kevin Kaesviharn because of his range...we need cover 2 safeties with range...this kid has it and picked off 6 passes last year to attest to it. He and Aaron Francisco would form a good one-two punch. I am still, however, enamored with LaRon Landry...but with Joe Thomas looking more of a possibility at #5 it would be wise to add a FS with range and ballhawking skills in free agency.

Funny how thus far we have heard of no TE or OLB action...two critical areas for the Cardinals to address.

Is anyone else suprised that TE Adam Bergen and RB Roger Robinson were let go? Both are very good athletes who, with good coaching, could make a solid contribution...and it wouldn't have cost much to keep them...close to the minimum, in fact.
 

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The first question is...how many of yesterday's signings would have been wise for the Cardinals to make, given the numbers?

1. CB Nate Clements @ 8 yrs/$80M? This contract is insane. There is no way I would have paid Clements $10M per. And it's contracts like this one that totally screw up free agent signings now and for years to come.

2. G/T Derrick Dockery @ 7 yrs./$49M. The Cardinals apparently were coveting Dockery...but, they would have had to be convinced that he could be the answer at LT to pay him this kind of money. This is a Leonard Davis scenario all over again...because Dockery is best suited to play guard. In light of these numbers...it's just as well that Buffalo signed him.

3. G/T Eric Steinbach @ 7 yrs./$49.5M. This is a contract I would have accepted because Steinbach is a leader and a highly versatile player. I am disappointed the Cardinals didn't make him their number one priority.

4. FB Ovie Mughelli @ 6 yrs./$18M. Mughelli has really had one good year as a starter...in fact this is what Lindy's said of Mughelli going into last season: "Solid special teams player who has never developed into reliable fullback." Apparently Mughelli becomes the first FB to make $3M a year. Atlanta better hope this risk reaps the right rewards.

5. OLB Adalius Thomas...not sure of the exact numbers yet, but apparently he has $20M in guaranteed money heading his way. This is interesting because the Patriots paid big money three years ago to sign the most highly coveted UFA OLB at that time, Roosevelt Colvin...and due to injuries, Colvin has not been the player he was in Chicago and has really only turned in one full season (this past year). Guaranteeing $20M is a high risk, regardless of who the player is.

The only one of these contracts that would have made sense to me is Steinbach's.

Now...what's in store for the Cardinals?

C Al Johnson who lost his starting job to Andre Gurode is the most attractive prospect. Johnson was slowed by injuries in Dallas, which opened the door for Gurode and Gurode slammed that door shut. Adding Johnson to the mix would solidify the Cardinals depth in the middle. To get Johnson, however, the Cardinals will likely have to offer $2.5-3M a year, which would be over twice the salary C Nick Leckey will make next year ($1.3M). Signing Johnson for competition and depth would be nice...but it's quite possible that Johnson would be collecting his $3M on the sidelines if Leckey retains the job...which I believe he would and should.

Wouldn't it be better for the Cardinals to draft a good young center for depth behing Leckey?

I am still hoping that the Cardinals can make a draft day trade to acquire C Ryan Kalil of USC. The Cards will likely have to move up from #38 to the 28-32 range to snag Kalil.

T Mike Gandy? Call me crazy but I think Brandon Gorin is as good or better than any of the tackle prospects out there right now. Gorin, with the right coaching and motivation, will be a pleasant surprise. Just the same, it's looking more possible by the day that T Joe Thomas will be sitting there for the Cardinals to pluck at #5.

CB Roderick Hood is an attractive prospect, IMO. He's an aggressive young player who has been well taught in Philadelphia. I also think that CB Travis Fisher might be a steal if he can stay healthy. If the Cards could sign Hood to a three or four year deal and sign Fisher to an incentive laden deal, I would feel better about the Cardinals depth at CB. I also remain high on 2nd year man Darrell Hunter because of his great speed.

At FS the player I like the best is Kevin Kaesviharn because of his range...we need cover 2 safeties with range...this kid has it and picked off 6 passes last year to attest to it. He and Aaron Francisco would form a good one-two punch. I am still, however, enamored with LaRon Landry...but with Joe Thomas looking more of a possibility at #5 it would be wise to add a FS with range and ballhawking skills in free agency.

Funny how thus far we have heard of no TE or OLB action...two critical areas for the Cardinals to address.

Is anyone else suprised that TE Adam Bergen and RB Roger Robinson were let go? Both are very good athletes who, with good coaching, could make a solid contribution...and it wouldn't have cost much to keep them...close to the minimum, in fact.

Mitch, I am glad you mentioned Gorin. I think he is your RT if Wells moves to LT. How can Gorin start for a very good Patriot OL and not ours?

Al Johnson would be your starting C. I like Leckey but Johnson is a young C with lots of potential. Gurode just made him the NFL version of Wally Pipp.

I also agree that with the Lions getting Foster and the Browns signing Steinbach, the first of the draft may look like this:
1. Raider- Russell
2. Lions- Quinn
3. Browns- AP
4. Bucs- Johnson
5. Thomas

Great writeup.
 

BullheadCardFan

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Good post Mitch ..

Some of the contracts that have been signed are super big numbers for players and could really coome back to haunt the teams that signed them in future years .. the frenzy hopefully is over and prices will now be more resonable ...

I would not have paid Dockery that kind of $$$ Clements is way out there .. I don't think we ever had a chance for Thomas ..

Steinbach got good $$ and he is a solid player .. but he is a guard and they want to move him to tackle .. it may work, but it may not .. a quality guard does not alway make a quality tackle ...

I do like guys like Hood and Johnson .. and I am surprised that we are not bringing in any LBs or TEs especially since we let Bergen go ...

I am still concerned about the Oline and putting a bandaid on it ..
 

JeffGollin

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...At FS the player I like the best is Kevin Kaesviharn because of his range...we need cover 2 safeties with range...this kid has it and picked off 6 passes last year to attest to it. He and Aaron Francisco would form a good one-two punch.

Is anyone else suprised that TE Adam Bergen and RB Roger Robinson were let go?
.

1. Agree about Kaesviharn.

2. If Francisco and Kaesviharn.represent a good one two punch, what about Adrian Wilson?

3. With Bergen not back to backup Pope, I expect the Cards to make a really serious run at Reggie Kelly. (i.e. to make that move, Rod and Ken have to "know something")
 

joeshmo

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Just a note on the Clements deal. First 10 Mill a year contracts will be common place in 1 or 2 years so we all better be prepared. Second, looking at the details of Clements deal it is only really a 6 year deal worth 7.25 a season, with 2 big bonuses that last 2 years of the deal and huge back loaded base salaries. 7.25 a season is more then reasonable. I have said this in other threads but we need to stop being fooled by the total amounts the media is giving, most of them is funny money the players will never see, and we need to wait for the details of the deal before we go ape over them.

Same issue with A. Thomas and his 20 mill gauranteed. It isnt 20 Mill right when he signs the contract. Part of it is a signing bonus the other part is roster bonuses if he is still on the team later in his contract.

Now I do agree that Dockery should have recieved a deal at the same level as Stienbach. Thats the only contract that I have been surprised from so far this offseason.

In all we as a fan base need to learn that the market has changed and these contracts are now common place and will be be common place for a long time.

And I totally agree with you about how no TE rumors is conspicuously absent from all the talk surround possible FA visists. TE and FB are the 2 positions that the staff have been talking about the most in filling in FA. Seems odd that we havent heard anything about one yet.
 

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Nice write up Mitch. I agree 99%. But, believe Gandy (#69 at Buffalo) could be a good insurance plug at LT, now that Davis is gone. We can't be guaranteed that Thomas will be there at #5. Even if he is, throwing a rookie in as a starter at LT would be a mistake. Look at what's happened to Gallery at Oakland.
 

BACH

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2. G/T Derrick Dockery @ 7 yrs./$49M. The Cardinals apparently were coveting Dockery...but, they would have had to be convinced that he could be the answer at LT to pay him this kind of money. This is a Leonard Davis scenario all over again...because Dockery is best suited to play guard. In light of these numbers...it's just as well that Buffalo signed him.

Is anyone else suprised that TE Adam Bergen and RB Roger Robinson were let go? Both are very good athletes who, with good coaching, could make a solid contribution...and it wouldn't have cost much to keep them...close to the minimum, in fact.

I agree on Dockery. Why take the chance on him at OT, then you might as well play Big that kind of money, since we know what we get from him.

Surprised by Bergen, since I really don't think Pope did anything special last season, while Bergen was okay.

Not surprised by Robinson. I think Diamond Ferri outplayed Robinson big time at RB AND would add much more on ST.
 

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Just a note on the Clements deal. First 10 Mill a year contracts will be common place in 1 or 2 years so we all better be prepared. Second, looking at the details of Clements deal it is only really a 6 year deal worth 7.25 a season, with 2 big bonuses that last 2 years of the deal and huge back loaded base salaries. 7.25 a season is more then reasonable. I have said this in other threads but we need to stop being fooled by the total amounts the media is giving, most of them is funny money the players will never see, and we need to wait for the details of the deal before we go ape over them.

Same issue with A. Thomas and his 20 mill gauranteed. It isnt 20 Mill right when he signs the contract. Part of it is a signing bonus the other part is roster bonuses if he is still on the team later in his contract.

Now I do agree that Dockery should have recieved a deal at the same level as Stienbach. Thats the only contract that I have been surprised from so far this offseason.

In all we as a fan base need to learn that the market has changed and these contracts are now common place and will be be common place for a long time.

And I totally agree with you about how no TE rumors is conspicuously absent from all the talk surround possible FA visists. TE and FB are the 2 positions that the staff have been talking about the most in filling in FA. Seems odd that we havent heard anything about one yet.


Couldnt have said it better myself Joe.:thumbup:
 
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Mitch

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Good post Mitch ..

Some of the contracts that have been signed are super big numbers for players and could really coome back to haunt the teams that signed them in future years .. the frenzy hopefully is over and prices will now be more resonable ...

I would not have paid Dockery that kind of $$$ Clements is way out there .. I don't think we ever had a chance for Thomas ..

Steinbach got good $$ and he is a solid player .. but he is a guard and they want to move him to tackle .. it may work, but it may not .. a quality guard does not alway make a quality tackle ...

I do like guys like Hood and Johnson .. and I am surprised that we are not bringing in any LBs or TEs especially since we let Bergen go ...

I am still concerned about the Oline and putting a bandaid on it ..

Apparently the Browns are going to play Steinbach at RT, according to reports from Cleveland.
 
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Mitch

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Nice write up Mitch. I agree 99%. But, believe Gandy (#69 at Buffalo) could be a good insurance plug at LT, now that Davis is gone. We can't be guaranteed that Thomas will be there at #5. Even if he is, throwing a rookie in as a starter at LT would be a mistake. Look at what's happened to Gallery at Oakland.

The question I have about this...Gandy was struggling so much at LT last year he was moved inside to guard. It would appear that the Cardinals already have two slightly better players in Gorin and Ross (not that I am endorsing Ross for the starting position, but Gandy and Ross are about the same)...but why sign Gandy if that is the case?
 
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Mitch

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Just a note on the Clements deal. First 10 Mill a year contracts will be common place in 1 or 2 years so we all better be prepared. Second, looking at the details of Clements deal it is only really a 6 year deal worth 7.25 a season, with 2 big bonuses that last 2 years of the deal and huge back loaded base salaries. 7.25 a season is more then reasonable. I have said this in other threads but we need to stop being fooled by the total amounts the media is giving, most of them is funny money the players will never see, and we need to wait for the details of the deal before we go ape over them.

Same issue with A. Thomas and his 20 mill gauranteed. It isnt 20 Mill right when he signs the contract. Part of it is a signing bonus the other part is roster bonuses if he is still on the team later in his contract.

Now I do agree that Dockery should have recieved a deal at the same level as Stienbach. Thats the only contract that I have been surprised from so far this offseason.

In all we as a fan base need to learn that the market has changed and these contracts are now common place and will be be common place for a long time.

And I totally agree with you about how no TE rumors is conspicuously absent from all the talk surround possible FA visists. TE and FB are the 2 positions that the staff have been talking about the most in filling in FA. Seems odd that we havent heard anything about one yet.

Good post, Joe. Would you have signed Clements to the same deal under the same perameters, Joe? I would not have...I don't think he's worth that sizeable a portion of the team's cap.
 

Chopper0080

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You didn't ak me Mitch but I would say yes. If our main need was CB like the 49ers, I would make the deal to address my main point of need. Yes, you overpay but that is what happens when you need players. As an organization you have to target the guys that you want AND THEN GET THEM. It is what drives me crazy about the FB from the Ravens. We targeted this guy and didn't even get a chance to talk to him. That is how inept Graves is.
 

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1. Agree about Kaesviharn.

2. If Francisco and Kaesviharn.represent a good one two punch, what about Adrian Wilson?

3. With Bergen not back to backup Pope, I expect the Cards to make a really serious run at Reggie Kelly. (i.e. to make that move, Rod and Ken have to "know something")

I believe he's referring to the fact that Pendy uses two FS plus Wilson in a number of schemes.
 

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Mitch...good post.

I agree on Mike Gandy...Gorin is better from the limited amount I saw him in preseason.

Kenyatta Walker and Big are the only two T's that would upgrade us but KW was out all last year with a bad knee...is it sound?

In desperation, I would sign Jordan Black IF we could get him on a below market deal AND Grimm thinks he would coach this kid up.

I still hope we can pay Big to come back.
 

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I think the interesting part with Thomas is the team. New England doesn't pay huge contracts in free agency. Many of the player on that team make well below what they would on the open market. It will be interesting to see if this causes some contract rumbling with other players on the team.
 

joeshmo

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Good post, Joe. Would you have signed Clements to the same deal under the same perameters, Joe? I would not have...I don't think he's worth that sizeable a portion of the team's cap.

I would have. Remember the deal is really just a 6 year deal worth 7.25 Mill a year. I would have paid Clements close to 8 Mill a year and not think twice about it.
 

joeshmo

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In desperation, I would sign Jordan Black IF we could get him on a below market deal AND Grimm thinks he would coach this kid up.

Could the coaching staff be falling into the trap that a lot of coaches fall into. Thinking they can coach anyone to be a starter and all they need is bodies. Nothing wrong with thinking highly of your abilities but more times then not just spraying the air freshner over a fart just makes a new kind of smell that still stinks.
 

TheCardFan

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Could the coaching staff be falling into the trap that a lot of coaches fall into. Thinking they can coach anyone to be a starter and all they need is bodies. Nothing wrong with thinking highly of your abilities but more times then not just spraying the air freshner over a fart just makes a new kind of smell that still stinks.

This would be the only staff (Grimm) that could even come close to thinking that but wow...what a gamble.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I would have. Remember the deal is really just a 6 year deal worth 7.25 Mill a year. I would have paid Clements close to 8 Mill a year and not think twice about it.



It's not like we had one of the worst corner tandems in the league last year though....oh wait....
 

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I also would have paid upto $8M a year for Clemments.

All future contracts are going to be big, so we might as well get used to it. It's not like the cap is going to go down next year. The Cards need to spend some money, even if they overpaid, to bring in an OT, TE, and FS of starting quality. That will improve the depth. Having Ross or Gorin start makes the team thinner at OT.

They need to identify which players left can fill those starting positions and get in a bidding war and win. Having $34M in cap space at the start of the season won't help much.

And I for one do not see Thomas dropping to the Cards at #5, as those QB are just not as good as last years crop of QBs.
 

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Bergen always seemed to fumble at very inopportune times. Maybe he got cut for saying to a poster on this very board that he preferred Warner to Matt
 

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