Quick Thoughts on the Draft & Before

[Harry]

It seems clear to me what the Cards must get done before game 1. First there are 2 people the Cards can't afford to lose for an extended period of time. The first is, of course, Palmer. Sure no QB will come in free agency or the draft that could replace him. So the Cards must protect him. The lack of a veteran right tackle needs to be corrected or at least the Cards need to grab a right tackle in the first round or trade down to the early second and take one there. The other major concern is Peterson. Again replacing him with no fall off is impossible, but securing a veteran option is critical. Bethel shows promise. You must keep in mind few players look good their first year at CB. He had his moments. No one else on the roster is likely to help enough. Mathieu is talented but this would likely be one step too far. Good round one options exist, but I'd rather see the Cards sign the CB and draft the tackle. A threatening returner must be taken along with a backup center prospect and an ILB option. These latter 3 should be draftable in the Cards slots. The others are BPA options.

 

[jf-08]

Do you think DJ Humphries has what it takes to start in this league @ RT?

 

[Cardiac]

My hope is that Watford can play RT, he seemed to do fairly well when given a chance last year. Plus most rookie OT's seem to struggle so I'd rather draft the CB early because they can contribute earlier.

My two biggest concerns are C and CB at this point. Fully agree with all your other points,

 

[Mitch]

Your point about Peterson is so well taken, Harry. Makes me think CB at #29 is imperative. The CBs at #92 are raw.

 

[Goldfield]

CB is our biggest need imo. Unless we get powers back.

 

[WildBB]

It seems clear to me what the Cards must get done before game 1. First there are 2 people the Cards can't afford to lose for an extended period of time. The first is, of course, Palmer. Sure no QB will come in free agency or the draft that could replace him. So the Cards must protect him. The lack of a veteran right tackle needs to be corrected or at least the Cards need to grab a right tackle in the first round or trade down to the early second and take one there. The other major concern is Peterson. Again replacing him with no fall off is impossible, but securing a veteran option is critical. Bethel shows promise. You must keep in mind few players look good their first year at CB. He had his moments. No one else on the roster is likely to help enough. Mathieu is talented but this would likely be one step too far. Good round one options exist, but I'd rather see the Cards sign the CB and draft the tackle. A threatening returner must be taken along with a backup center prospect and an ILB option. These latter 3 should be draftable in the Cards slots. The others are BPA options.

There is 0% possibility the Cardinals will take another RT in the 1st Rd. Your writing off Humphries already!

 

[pinetopred]

There is 0% possibility the Cardinals will take another RT in the 1st Rd. Your writing off Humphries already!

Harry has let it be known a number of times he didn't like the Humphries pick, after we drafted him and to be honest the kid hasn't shown enough that anybody should feel real great about him as a starter. I don't agree with Harry on the whole we should draft another unproven RT and that protects Palmer IMO this situation screams for a Vet pickup not draft pick

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Nobody, other than the coaching staff, knows what we have in Humphries. If they think he' shown enough improvement and can start, he'll be the guy. If not, Watford or a veteran will likely start. I think they like what they have in Humphries as shown by letting Massie walk without much of a fight.

I doubt they'll take an OT early in the draft though. CB, however, is a real possibility and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cards draft 2 CB's in this draft.

 

[cardpa]

Harry,
What you propose doesn't make sense. You are discounting a 1st round pick from last year and replacing him with a high unproven pick from this year. Either way it's a unproven RT.

 

[CFLredzoned]

It was funny hearing Wolfley talk about it a few weeks ago. Every day in practice, it was the DJ Humphries vituperation show. All day, building him up, beating him, down, building him up, beating him down, Harold Goodwin, hat turned backwards, 2 inches from his face, yelling at him like a drill sargeant. We'll see if it worked.

The one positive I got from DJ in the preseason is that he gets alot of push in the running game. There were times I had to rewind just to see who it was. It was fun to see. That's about it though.

 

[oaken1]

It seems clear to me what the Cards must get done before game 1. First there are 2 people the Cards can't afford to lose for an extended period of time. The first is, of course, Palmer. Sure no QB will come in free agency or the draft that could replace him. So the Cards must protect him. The lack of a veteran right tackle needs to be corrected or at least the Cards need to grab a right tackle in the first round or trade down to the early second and take one there. The other major concern is Peterson. Again replacing him with no fall off is impossible, but securing a veteran option is critical. Bethel shows promise. You must keep in mind few players look good their first year at CB. He had his moments. No one else on the roster is likely to help enough. Mathieu is talented but this would likely be one step too far. Good round one options exist, but I'd rather see the Cards sign the CB and draft the tackle. A threatening returner must be taken along with a backup center prospect and an ILB option. These latter 3 should be draftable in the Cards slots. The others are BPA options.

Building a dominant defense is a philosophy,...and apparently we have philosophical differences.

without a pocket crushing presence in the middle of our D-line this secondary will never quite be good enough.
With a pocket crushing presence in the middle of our D-line...it is good enough right now.

We need a pocket crushing nose tackle....so we do not have to keep five pro bowler DB's on the roster in order to stop the passing game.

I agree we need to draft an olineman...there will be several quality swing tackle/guard players in the third and fourth rounds.

The tricky thing about drafts is they start to run thin on talent after a while.... you have to decide at some point if the guys you are selecting are any better than the guys you have. I am a firm believer that you improve your roster from the top down...in other words..bring in players who make other players at the position drop a spot on the depth chart.

Corey Peters is our NT,...and while he looked great in the one pre season game he played in for us...it was pre season, and his history does not indicate he can maintain that level of push...I remember being very surprised to see the push he was getting. then you throw in that injury, and it would be far better for us if he was behind somebody in a rotation. Gunter played fairly well but he will play better when he is moved back to DE where he belongs.
When you look back at pre draft rankings...back before the combines and pro days, back before espn and nfl network had to fill hundreds of hours of airtime with player profiles and such...back to when players were ranked based upon how well they actually performed...you know,..on the football field, during games, in pads... you look back to that and you see there are barely two corners who qualify as first round picks...ranked somewhere around 12th and 32nd... but due to the glory of the position and the league transitioning ever more to a passers league these guys get hyped up and over drafted.... there is no Patrick Peterson in this draft...and there is no corner who can step in and be a good starting #2 corner at 29...there will be a guy who is fast and athletic, but has sluggish hips and poor ball skills.....oh, we have that already in Justin Bethel.
So ask yourself....are we better off getting the fourth or fifth best corner in a draft that overall is weak at the position.....or are we better off getting the second best NT,...or arguably the best "all around" NT...in a draft that is very strong at the defensive front seven positions? Which player just fills a roster spot and which player makes your team better?

This team will be far better served in drafting a dlineman and signing a vet corner for our rotation.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

Unless they trade out of the first round for more picks #29 will be a CB. Makes really no sense drafting a RT when they have DJ already there. They will give him a shot at starting.

 

[WildBB]

Building a dominant defense is a philosophy,...and apparently we have philosophical differences.

without a pocket crushing presence in the middle of our D-line this secondary will never quite be good enough.
With a pocket crushing presence in the middle of our D-line...it is good enough right now.

We need a pocket crushing nose tackle....so we do not have to keep five pro bowler DB's on the roster in order to stop the passing game.

I agree we need to draft an olineman...there will be several quality swing tackle/guard players in the third and fourth rounds.

The tricky thing about drafts is they start to run thin on talent after a while.... you have to decide at some point if the guys you are selecting are any better than the guys you have. I am a firm believer that you improve your roster from the top down...in other words..bring in players who make other players at the position drop a spot on the depth chart.

Corey Peters is our NT,...and while he looked great in the one pre season game he played in for us...it was pre season, and his history does not indicate he can maintain that level of push...I remember being very surprised to see the push he was getting. then you throw in that injury, and it would be far better for us if he was behind somebody in a rotation. Gunter played fairly well but he will play better when he is moved back to DE where he belongs.
When you look back at pre draft rankings...back before the combines and pro days, back before espn and nfl network had to fill hundreds of hours of airtime with player profiles and such...back to when players were ranked based upon how well they actually performed...you know,..on the football field, during games, in pads... you look back to that and you see there are barely two corners who qualify as first round picks...ranked somewhere around 12th and 32nd... but due to the glory of the position and the league transitioning ever more to a passers league these guys get hyped up and over drafted.... there is no Patrick Peterson in this draft...and there is no corner who can step in and be a good starting #2 corner at 29...there will be a guy who is fast and athletic, but has sluggish hips and poor ball skills.....oh, we have that already in Justin Bethel.
So ask yourself....are we better off getting the fourth or fifth best corner in a draft that overall is weak at the position.....or are we better off getting the second best NT,...or arguably the best "all around" NT...in a draft that is very strong at the defensive front seven positions? Which player just fills a roster spot and which player makes your team better?

This team will be far better served in drafting a dlineman and signing a vet corner for our rotation.

Agree. Only other true impact player would be Jaylon Smith.

 

[don7031]

If Alabama center Ryan Kelly is still on the board, the Cardinals can't pass on him.

In the salary cap era you can't be good across the board. There will always be more need positions than you can find / pay good players to fill. The Cardinals need help at all three levels on defense and on the offensive line. Cut and paste that, because we'll be saying it again next year.

 

[Harry]

Here's the issue with DJ. I'm based in Florida and no one in college saw him as a dominant tackle. I saw him live and I wasn't impressed. He's got the athletic ability but the general consensus is he lacks a love of the game. He had that same athletic ability in college and simply seldom used it. I'm sure he wants the money. I'm not sure he will do what it takes to keep making it. My grandfather used to say you could continually kick a mule and get it to plow, but sooner or later your foot starts to hurt. I've seen a few guys mature late and change, but that's rare.

As to taking on a second developmental project Watford might work if DJ fails, but he couldn't beat out Massie. They wouldn't be starting DJ if Watford's experience had shown him to be a solid tackle. If we were talking left tackle I'd agree the situation was hopeless, but an experienced QB can better cope with a right tackle weakness. The key is having someone who improves week to week. While DJ has more NFL practice time, he didn't even get a few snaps just to get the feel of NFL speed. Keep in mind also that in practice he was going mostly against questionable rushers. Freeney was the only decent rusher he faced and at his age I doubt he went full out in practice. In this draft I like Spriggs. In over 400 pass protection plays in 2015 he gave up 2 sacks. It's true he only played left tackle, but he takes instruction well.

I certainly wouldn't be shocked to see the Cards take a CB and if they choose well and Peterson stays healthy this could work out fine. The ramp up time for a CB is brutal. I'd really rather have a vet that knows how to work the system and the officials. Call it personal preference.

As to taking a DT there will be a couple of good ones available. I even posted about one earlier. I just think the Cards have enough depth and could pick up a free agent after the preseason cuts.

 

[WildBB]

I don't think Spriggs will be available. There won't be anyone who can step right in and upgrade the position. The problem as is well documented is that college programs really don't prepare OL to come in seamlessly into the NFL and produce. It's getting more rare. Humphries will get a shot at it. So many scouts raved about his quick feet. They should bring in a vet too though.

It's getting bothersome the the Cards seem to draft early weighted on upside, yet let things like motivation factors slip by in the process. I've become less high on Nkemdiche because of Humphries now. Maybe he'll work out, but this staff has had it's challenges on the development of players aspect.

 

[Cardiac]

Thanks for the detailed explanation and response Harry, food for thought for sure.

It would be very frustrating for me to take another OT in the first or second rd but if DJ is truly "knee deep" then I get why BASK may bite the bullet and draft an OT early. I would much prefer we sign a vet OT as insurance and to push DJ.

Have you watched enough tape to determine which C you like the most in this draft and if more than one are viable options?

 

[Jetstream Green]

I still say we need a CB in a very bad way... we have Peterson and then the question mark which is Bethel who I think lacks the natural instincts to play the position no matter how much experience he gets, 1st or 3rd to help the secondary which is consumed about the safety position when the edges need more depth

 

[WildBB]

I still say we need a CB in a very bad way... we have Peterson and then the question mark which is Bethel who I think lacks the natural instincts to play the position no matter how much experience he gets, 1st or 3rd to help the secondary which is consumed about the safety position when the edges need more depth

I think Powers is still very much in the mix here. He'll push Bethel. Then they'll add a rookie, prob. around the end of the 4th Rd, imo.

Pass rush and 2nd level tackling are still the D priorities, imo.

 

[CFLredzoned]

It's getting bothersome the the Cards seem to draft early weighted on upside, yet let things like motivation factors slip by in the process. I've become less high on Nkemdiche because of Humphries now. Maybe he'll work out, but this staff has had it's challenges on the development of players aspect.

That's the part that's so perplexing. As much as Keim talks about drafting guys that are self-motivated and love the game, they really got away from that with DJ. Which makes it look like they felt like they had no other options and had to make an exception. The weird part about that is how Mayock knew they were drafting DJ, which I don't completely believe was a lucky guess. Either way, I bet they learned their lesson and will use self-motivation as a necessary criteria for first round picks going forward.

 

[Stout]

That's the part that's so perplexing. As much as Keim talks about drafting guys that are self-motivated and love the game, they really got away from that with DJ. Which makes it look like they felt like they had no other options and had to make an exception. The weird part about that is how Mayock knew they were drafting DJ, which I don't completely believe was a lucky guess. Either way, I bet they learned their lesson and will use self-motivation as a necessary criteria for first round picks going forward.

 

[Mitch]

That's the part that's so perplexing. As much as Keim talks about drafting guys that are self-motivated and love the game, they really got away from that with DJ. Which makes it look like they felt like they had no other options and had to make an exception. The weird part about that is how Mayock knew they were drafting DJ, which I don't completely believe was a lucky guess. Either way, I bet they learned their lesson and will use self-motivation as a necessary criteria for first round picks going forward.

It was a surprising pick---just in the sense that Steve Keim is big on drafting leaders, team captains and highly productive players---gym rats who love the game. In Humphries he was gambling that if Humphries had stayed at Florida another year, he would have been a top 15 pick in the 2016 Draft. So now we get to see whether that gamble paid off. I thought Humphries showed flashes of top-end talent at times in the pre-season games---but was inconsistent, which, in part, was due to his inexperience in BA's complex offense.

 

[kerouac9]

Here's the issue with DJ. I'm based in Florida and no one in college saw him as a dominant tackle. I saw him live and I wasn't impressed. He's got the athletic ability but the general consensus is he lacks a love of the game. He had that same athletic ability in college and simply seldom used it. I'm sure he wants the money. I'm not sure he will do what it takes to keep making it. My grandfather used to say you could continually kick a mule and get it to plow, but sooner or later your foot starts to hurt. I've seen a few guys mature late and change, but that's rare.

As to taking on a second developmental project Watford might work if DJ fails, but he couldn't beat out Massie. They wouldn't be starting DJ if Watford's experience had shown him to be a solid tackle. If we were talking left tackle I'd agree the situation was hopeless, but an experienced QB can better cope with a right tackle weakness. The key is having someone who improves week to week. While DJ has more NFL practice time, he didn't even get a few snaps just to get the feel of NFL speed. Keep in mind also that in practice he was going mostly against questionable rushers. Freeney was the only decent rusher he faced and at his age I doubt he went full out in practice. In this draft I like Spriggs. In over 400 pass protection plays in 2015 he gave up 2 sacks. It's true he only played left tackle, but he takes instruction well.

I certainly wouldn't be shocked to see the Cards take a CB and if they choose well and Peterson stays healthy this could work out fine. The ramp up time for a CB is brutal. I'd really rather have a vet that knows how to work the system and the officials. Call it personal preference.

As to taking a DT there will be a couple of good ones available. I even posted about one earlier. I just think the Cards have enough depth and could pick up a free agent after the preseason cuts.

That's what people used to say about L.J. Shelton, too.

 

[Covert Rain]

Bethel is promising? Wow. Couldn't disagree more. I think you know what we have with him and you are going to need to shore up Corner. It becomes super scary if you lose Peterson for any length of time.

 

[Harry]

I'm not excited by any of the centers. The best value pick might be Blythe from Iowa. Most see him as more of a career backup, but he has tons of grit. If he's on the board in round 4 I'd have to consider him.

I know it's hard to watch Bethel and say "promising," but you have to look at where a player comes from. He certainly didn't learn to be a CB in college, so for my money he was basically a rookie last season. I could fill a book with names of corners who looked questionable in year one. He's got the speed, which you can't teach. He's got ball skills, which are had to teach. He's comes out of a cut smoothly. He needs to learn the moves and how to match them. It's a matter of repetitions. He may never be a premier CB, but I think he could well be solid.