Random draft gurus tidbits 2021

[DVontel]

I don't want to keep derailing the thread, so fine, whatever. But we'll see how successful this team is in 2021 if Edmonds is averaging 3.28 yards a carry like Ellington did. Because I'm going to guess that the answer will be that we're doing very poorly.


Man, we must have been watching two different Wayne Gallmans. Outside of the Seattle game, he was bad. NYG couldn't get anything going all season.

You’re really trying your best to convince people that RB is some super valuable position like it’s 2001 & it’s still hilarious.

 

[BritCard]

Man, you have hated Patrick Peterson relentlessly for a really long time, haven't you? Did he break up with your sister or something?

Would you have trusted Kerwynn Williams to be your starter for a full season?

I don't doubt players of all levels can have surprisingly great games occasionally, but it's about consistency for me.


Did you watch any of these guys play? Outside of McKinnon, none of them could outrun my grandfather.

(Also as I write this the cops are in an armed standoff with the crazy guy in the neighborhood we have a restraining order on for threatening to murder us. What a day.)

I like you dude but you might be the last person in football arguing the pro's of a bell cow RB1.

The Niners were probably the best running team in the league and did it split between Mostert, Jerrick McKinnon and Jeff Wilson. Jeff Wilson was their leading rusher. The Ravens are up there too splitting between Dobbins, Ingram and Edwards. The Pats split heavily between several backs.

Of all the top rushing teams only 2 have any significant mileage between RB1 and RB2 and that's the Titans and Vikings.

The Henry's and McCaffreys of the world are a dying breed.

Running back is the only position on the roster where you can get equal production from 3-4 guys that cost less than a single bellcow.

It also gives you the advantage of not losing a major piece through injury, as we did with Johnson in 2017. You get multiple guys with different abilities allowing you to do different things and you have more bodies for ST's.

The way forward is 3 serviceable guys. I'd be happy with a trio of Edmonds, Gallman and Duke Johnson. Or Edmonds, McKinnon, Peterson. Or Edmonds, Bell, Foreman. Or Edmonds, Gurley, McCoy.

I'm really not worried about the RB room. Plus, a crap tonne of RB's are going to get cut post draft.

 

[BritCard]

Man, we must have been watching two different Wayne Gallmans. Outside of the Seattle game, he was bad. NYG couldn't get anything going all season.

We must have been. I was watching the one that had 4.6 YPC, 6 TDs, a long of 60 and 36 1st downs on just 147 carries.

With a PFF grade of of 71.1. Higher than both Drake and Edmonds.

 

[Solar7]

You’re really trying your best to convince people that RB is some super valuable position like it’s 2001 & it’s still hilarious.

And you're acting like it has zero value and is on the cusp of being phased out.

The majority of playoff teams last year either had an RB over ~800 yards (795 for Antonio Gibson who was hurt and could only start 10 games) or were a top 15 rushing team, mostly from the RB position.

Every playoff team outside of the Packers and Seahawks featured a RB drafted in the top 3 rounds of the draft, by their team. And even GB and SEA have invested in 1st/2nd round picks on RB that were on their roster. In fact, let's look at the teams RB corps by how many 1st-3rd rounders they have on them that made the playoffs:

Chiefs - 2
Bills - 2
Colts - 1
Steelers - 1
Browns - 2
Titans - 1
Packers - 1
Saints - 1
Bears - 1
Seahawks - 2
Rams - 2
Washington - 1
Buccaneers - 3

There are very few successful late round RBs in this league. It's pretty simple. The position is still key unless you have the absolute top QB/receiving options in the league, which we don't.

 

[Solar7]

I like you dude but you might be the last person in football arguing the pro's of a bell cow RB1.

The Niners were probably the best running team in the league and did it split between Mostert, Jerrick McKinnon and Jeff Wilson. Jeff Wilson was their leading rusher. The Ravens are up there too splitting between Dobbins, Ingram and Edwards. The Pats split heavily between several backs.

Of all the top rushing teams only 2 have any significant mileage between RB1 and RB2 and that's the Titans and Vikings.

The Henry's and McCaffreys of the world are a dying breed.

Running back is the only position on the roster where you can get equal production from 3-4 guys that cost less than a single bellcow.

It also gives you the advantage of not losing a major piece through injury, as we did with Johnson in 2017. You get multiple guys with different abilities allowing you to do different things and you have more bodies for ST's.

The way forward is 3 serviceable guys. I'd be happy with a trio of Edmonds, Gallman and Duke Johnson. Or Edmonds, McKinnon, Peterson. Or Edmonds, Bell, Foreman. Or Edmonds, Gurley, McCoy.

I'm really not worried about the RB room. Plus, a crap tonne of RB's are going to get cut post draft.

I'm not even arguing for a bell cow RB. If we had a 3rd or 4th round pick, as long as we addressed the room before the 5th, I'd be fine.

The Niners have three very talented running backs, and good for them. They have schemed well and worked waiver wires and other opportunities to get there. The Ravens and Pats both invested 2nd-3rd round picks or significant contracts (Engram) to get their backfields.

If running like the 49ers was so easy, why have we only had 3 1,000 yard RBs in Arizona history? Why were we 2nd to last in RB production last year? Why have only 6 RBs in Arizona Cardinals history eclipsed 700 yards in a season? That's 33 seasons, 6 RBs.

Just because other teams have been able to do it in rare instances does not mean we can replicate it so easily.

 

[DVontel]

And you're acting like it has zero value and is on the cusp of being phased out.

The majority of playoff teams last year either had an RB over ~800 yards (795 for Antonio Gibson who was hurt and could only start 10 games) or were a top 15 rushing team, mostly from the RB position.

Every playoff team outside of the Packers and Seahawks featured a RB drafted in the top 3 rounds of the draft, by their team. And even GB and SEA have invested in 1st/2nd round picks on RB that were on their roster. In fact, let's look at the teams RB corps by how many 1st-3rd rounders they have on them that made the playoffs:

Chiefs - 2
Bills - 2
Colts - 1
Steelers - 1
Browns - 2
Titans - 1
Packers - 1
Saints - 1
Bears - 1
Seahawks - 2
Rams - 2
Washington - 1
Buccaneers - 3

There are very few successful late round RBs in this league. It's pretty simple. The position is still key unless you have the absolute top QB/receiving options in the league, which we don't.

For the longest I have said I’d be okay with drafting a RB on day 3. Even threw you bone & said I would be okay with JaVonte Williams in Round 2. How in the world is that acting like it has no value? It has value, but it’s way at the totem pole of value. You’re still trying to bite the bullet on drafting a RB in round 1 despite “not pressing for a round 1 RB”. If you’re truly not, then what are we still arguing for?

 

[Solar7]

For the longest I have said I’d be okay with drafting a RB on day 3. Even threw you bone & said I would be okay with JaVonte Williams in Round 2. How in the world is that acting like it has no value? It has value, but it’s way at the totem pole of value. You’re still trying to bite the bullet on drafting a RB in round 1 despite “not pressing for a round 1 RB”. If you’re truly not, then what are we still arguing for?

Because a conversation about me saying EDGE isn't a 2nd round need compared to other positions yet again went into a discussion about how RBs are valueless? It's not just a discussion between us, either.

At the end of the day, all I want to do is stop pretending we're suddenly the 49ers or some other team killing it with late round rookie RBs... our RB history is pathetic, and I want to get Kyler some actual weapons. The kid is going to have off games. It'd be nice if we had a running game to help him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man, you have hated Patrick Peterson relentlessly for a really long time, haven't you? Did he break up with your sister or something?

Would you have trusted Kerwynn Williams to be your starter for a full season?

I don't doubt players of all levels can have surprisingly great games occasionally, but it's about consistency for me.


Did you watch any of these guys play? Outside of McKinnon, none of them could outrun my grandfather.

(Also as I write this the cops are in an armed standoff with the crazy guy in the neighborhood we have a restraining order on for threatening to murder us. What a day.)

Jebus! Good luck.

 

[SECTION 11]

I’d draft Harris at 16 all day long. For what it’s worth.

 

[juza76]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

Looking back.
I should have started a pro day thread.
Not that I mind all of the draft stuff going in here.
Oh well

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

Ben Fennell
⁦‪@BenFennell_NFL‬⁩

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BYU center James Empey is a stud too - dealt w/ ankle injury in '20 - wasn't the same player, decided to head back for 2021 & could be one of the top center prospects of 2022 Draft

2022 Class: Deaton, Kramer, Lindstrom, Linderbaum, Godlevske, Neilon, Noah Johnson, Saffell, etc

3/26/21, 11:12 AM

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[slanidrac16]

You’re really trying your best to convince people that RB is some super valuable position like it’s 2001 & it’s still hilarious.

I’ve stated this before. In this league the RB position has been devalued. HOWEVER, we need 3 solid running backs heading in to game 1. We do need a bigger back to go along with Edmonds.
Unfortunately, we have no idea what we have in Ward and Benjamin. You remember Benjamin, the guy we drafted in the 7 th round where many of you believe we can EASILY find a guy to step in.
We simply cannot go into this season without adding a quality rb with size. Harris fits that bill as does Williams.
Lots of posters mentioning depth at position A or B and that is true and important. But what skews everything is the claim of “all in”. We’ve strengthened the o-line, the d-line, most say db and some say Wr. That leaves rb and Te. I could see us drafting Entienne or Harris and the Friemurth( sp?) in the second.
I would be shocked if Pitts was still there at 16 but he would be a Cardinal and Williams as our second pick.
Not saying I agree with any of this but it would be the Cardinal way.

 

[az jam]

Isay Wr. That leaves rb and Te. I could see us drafting Entienne or Harris and the Friemurth( sp?) in the second.
I would be shocked if Pitts was still there at 16 but he would be a Cardinal and Williams as our second pick.
Not saying I agree with any of this but it would be the Cardinal way.

I think Cards will go CB in round 1 and RB in round 2. I have no problem with that as they are big needs and Cards will get two good players. KK doesn't feature TEs in his offense so I don't see them getting one until day 3.

 

[Cardsfan77]

Kiper just called out Zach Davidson as a sleeper TE in the 4th - 6th round on the radio just now. I can dig it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

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That's monster numbers for Paye.

 

[DVontel]

I think Cards will go CB in round 1 and RB in round 2. I have no problem with that as they are big needs and Cards will get two good players. KK doesn't feature TEs in his offense so I don't see them getting one until day 3.

Are we actually sure about this?

Dan Arnold was 3rd on the team when it came to yards & TDs. Now, that could be cause of the meh WR group, but I wouldn’t completely write off Kliff not involving TEs. I think we were 3rd highest when it came to 12 personnel last season. I actually think Kyler could benefit from a stud TE moreso than a good WR2.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Peterson was getting burnt relentlessly in 2014.

Fitz didn’t even have 800 yards in 2014. Meh.

Defense was disciplined, but had no semblance of a pass-rush.

Coaching, I’m with you there.

Funny though, a UDFA RB by the name of Kerwynn Williams damn near single handily carried the offense to a victory against a Chiefs team that made the playoffs.

The Peterson narrative is hilarious. Bro wasn't very good his first 3-4 years in the league and pretty much made the Pro Bowl based on name.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Are we actually sure about this?

Dan Arnold was 3rd on the team when it came to yards & TDs. Now, that could be cause of the meh WR group, but I wouldn’t completely write off Kliff not involving TEs. I think we were 3rd highest when it came to 12 personnel last season. I actually think Kyler could benefit from a stud TE moreso than a good WR2.

I don't disagree. I think Arnold would have been used more if he didn't have key drops.

 

[GatorAZ]

Greek God alert:

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[az jam]

Are we actually sure about this?

Dan Arnold was 3rd on the team when it came to yards & TDs. Now, that could be cause of the meh WR group, but I wouldn’t completely write off Kliff not involving TEs. I think we were 3rd highest when it came to 12 personnel last season. I actually think Kyler could benefit from a stud TE moreso than a good WR2.

Arnold was 5th on the Cards team in terms of targets and the Cards as a team were #28 in terms of targets to TEs. However, you may be right that if the Cards really had a stud TE, he would be used a lot more in KK's offense. Can't argue that and also can't recall the Cards ever having a real stud TE.