Random thoughts...

[jbjarko]

I was not happy with Bowles after last night, but I thought to myself; it took a good HALF of a season for the D to get it with Horton. We all were so upset because our defense sucked, literally sucked the first 8 games with Horton. Finally it clicked. Maybe it is the same deal. Hell, we're in the 3rd preseason game, we aren't scheming. Who knows. Maybe Bowles will impress.

They are sticking our DBs out on an island to see who can cover. That WILL NOT happen during a regular season game. I saw a few flashes of some nice blitzes, maybe there is more to come. The DL needs to get a freakin' push though. They were manhandled yesterday. We will miss D-Wash for the first 4 games.

We won't know if it is the receivers or Carson that is off. Only the players and the coaches will know who wasn't on point. Could be a receiver going to shallow or deep in his route.

After yesterday, we all think we're in dire straights, but I am still optimistic. This coaching staff and FO have done NOTHING to prove me otherwise. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Bravo. I was about to make a damn near exact post myself, it's like the whole board forgets what they said in the past. We had thread after thread about how Horton wasn't qualified and the defense wouldn't work in the NFL, and the guys were lost. Then guess what, they figured out the NEW D and suddenly we had a real good defense.

I think we lost too much talent to be that good again this year but it's a whole new defense, and lots of new players. I can't believe people didn't learn this from the Horton system, it isn't going to happen overnight.

 

[red desert]

Good post. Agree.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Scheme aside, we should also remember that the roster showed back in March that this team would struggle with a 4-man rush, and would struggle in deep coverage with the lack of talent at safety.

Those are becoming very apparent right now. Nothing you can do to make your players talent better.

We will see what the defense looks like Week 1, when the schemes are, hopefully, implemented.

 

[Cardiac]

I posted something similar about the Horton D taking time in another thread so I obviously agree this could be the case.

I also know I have had similar hopes when Billy Davis was the DC and Pendergast etc.

If the D takes half the year to get it going then kiss a decent season goodbye.

 

[WildBB]

Bravo. I was about to make a damn near exact post myself, it's like the whole board forgets what they said in the past. We had thread after thread about how Horton wasn't qualified and the defense wouldn't work in the NFL, and the guys were lost. Then guess what, they figured out the NEW D and suddenly we had a real good defense.

I think we lost too much talent to be that good again this year but it's a whole new defense, and lots of new players. I can't believe people didn't learn this from the Horton system, it isn't going to happen overnight.

The only real notable on the D was probably Wilson, and he already wasn't playing on 3rd downs. The main core remains and we even added an old core member in Dansby.

 

[Russ Smith]

The only real notable on the D was probably Wilson, and he already wasn't playing on 3rd downs. The main core remains and we even added an old core member in Dansby.

But no D Wash for part of the year, no Rhodes, Schofield etc. None of them individually were Pro Bowlers but they were all part of the defense the last 2 years and as of yet it's not clear the replacements are as good let alone better.

I expect the defense to eventually be pretty good, there is still talent there, but I still wish we had Rhodes back. That play with Rashad just killed me, Rhodes made plays for us pick a fumble run it back, Rashad does it and he gives them a TD.

 

[cardpa]

No doubt Johnson's decision to lateral was a real bonehead play. That being said we have seen this several times in the preseason. Is this something being taught or is it something the players have tried? I suspect its something that is being tried on purpose to create defensive scoring opportunities.

With that in mind the players have to take the responsibility to realize its not such a good idea to do it so close to your own end zone. Too many bad things can happen and we saw the results of that on Saturday.

 

[Russ Smith]

No doubt Johnson's decision to lateral was a real bonehead play. That being said we have seen this several times in the preseason. Is this something being taught or is it something the players have tried? I suspect its something that is being tried on purpose to create defensive scoring opportunities.

With that in mind the players have to take the responsibility to realize its not such a good idea to do it so close to your own end zone. Too many bad things can happen and we saw the results of that on Saturday.

The whole thing was just bad. He was smart enough to wait until the guy was behind him so it wasn't a forward lateral but just get on the ball. I agree though with the idea that they may be being told to do this to try and score off the defense because he was clearly waiting for the LB to get behind him so he could lateral.

 

[Duckjake]

I was not happy with Bowles after last night, but I thought to myself; it took a good HALF of a season for the D to get it with Horton. We all were so upset because our defense sucked, literally sucked the first 8 games with Horton. Finally it clicked. Maybe it is the same deal. Hell, we're in the 3rd preseason game, we aren't scheming. Who knows. Maybe Bowles will impress.

They are sticking our DBs out on an island to see who can cover. That WILL NOT happen during a regular season game. I saw a few flashes of some nice blitzes, maybe there is more to come. The DL needs to get a freakin' push though. They were manhandled yesterday. We will miss D-Wash for the first 4 games.

We won't know if it is the receivers or Carson that is off. Only the players and the coaches will know who wasn't on point. Could be a receiver going to shallow or deep in his route.

After yesterday, we all think we're in dire straights, but I am still optimistic. This coaching staff and FO have done NOTHING to prove me otherwise. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think they have. Months of focusing on eliminating bonehead plays and simple mistakes and 3 weeks into the preseason in a game where our starters had significant playing time we see a basket full of them.

And to me that is cause for concern.

 

[Cardiac]

The only real notable on the D was probably Wilson, and he already wasn't playing on 3rd downs. The main core remains and we even added an old core member in Dansby.

The real notable loss is Rhodes with Adub not too far behind. K9 has posted stats showing that Adub was getting far more playing time than many of us assume, even at the end of the year.

I'm not mourning the loss of Gay and feel that Powers (sans SD game), Cason and or Arenas will be at least as good as Gay.

Many are on board with BASK and since they did re-sign Rashad this offseason maybe we should not be as worried about him replacing Rhodes but I'm not "all in" on this move.

 

[Russ Smith]

The real notable loss is Rhodes with Adub not too far behind. K9 has posted stats showing that Adub was getting far more playing time than many of us assume, even at the end of the year.

I'm not mourning the loss of Gay and feel that Powers (sans SD game), Cason and or Arenas will be at least as good as Gay.

Many are on board with BASK and since they did re-sign Rashad this offseason maybe we should not be as worried about him replacing Rhodes but I'm not "all in" on this move.

Yep Rhodes was a playmaker, don't think Rashad is.

 

[kerouac9]

Bravo. I was about to make a damn near exact post myself, it's like the whole board forgets what they said in the past. We had thread after thread about how Horton wasn't qualified and the defense wouldn't work in the NFL, and the guys were lost. Then guess what, they figured out the NEW D and suddenly we had a real good defense.

I think we lost too much talent to be that good again this year but it's a whole new defense, and lots of new players. I can't believe people didn't learn this from the Horton system, it isn't going to happen overnight.

The thing is that the stories were out there about how complicated the Horton defense was; guys were confused; they had to buy into the system, etc. That was all out there. When Bowles came on board we've heard from Day One that he's taking off the handcuffs and allowing guys to play instinctive football and make plays.

Maybe the Horton D gave up yardage and big plays, but they also held the Carolina Panthers to 21 points despite all those yards, Washington to 22, Seattle to 13 in their stadium. Yes, there was a run of 30+ point games, but that defense didn't come out of the gate terrible. They just got too much loaded up on them in the middle of the year.

This San Diego team is not good. They dismantled this defense pretty well.

 

[JeffGollin]

My main problem with the D had nothing to do with scheme. It had to do with:

Too many yards after initial contact picked up by opposing ballcarriers.

Too much cushion in man coverage by all our corners.

I believe the loosey-goosey way our DB's are playing "hot potato" with loose footballs is being encouraged by the defensive staff. I don't have a problem with that so long as it works. Rashad's little adventure was flat out dumb because we were inside our own 3, with nowhere to go (& no time to get there). We had walked our way out of a deep hole and should have thanked our lucky stars and put both hands on the freakin' football before stepping smartly out of bounds. Plus - it didn't work. Moral - Be aggressive but not dumb.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think the defense is doing what it's supposed to be doing. Creating turnovers. If this defense continues to average 3 turnovers a game then I think we will be OK.

If you take away the bonehead play by Rashad Johnson after the turnover. The Cardinals Starting Defense has given up 7 points in about 5-6 quarters of play and has 7 turnovers.

 

[WildBB]

But no D Wash for part of the year, no Rhodes, Schofield etc. None of them individually were Pro Bowlers but they were all part of the defense the last 2 years and as of yet it's not clear the replacements are as good let alone better.

I expect the defense to eventually be pretty good, there is still talent there, but I still wish we had Rhodes back. That play with Rashad just killed me, Rhodes made plays for us pick a fumble run it back, Rashad does it and he gives them a TD.

But R Johnson isn't replacing Rhodes, he's replacing Wilson. He was already in there for half the year last season.

I liked Rhodes but he was asking too much,IMO. His replacement Bell should be adequate as he knows Bowles' system well. I expect the D to pick up where they left off as well. Yes losing DWash will hurt initial progress, I'd agree that we have to give Bowles at least half the season to judge any results. The PR will tell, how often we can get to the QB or make him rush throws. Turnovers will be huge and by all accounts the CS is stressing turnovers a lot.

 

[splitsecond]

Horton had document success before he came here. Everyone saw how god-awful Bowles D was in Philly after he took over. People are going to jump to skepticism faster with Bowles. It is what it is.

 

[kerouac9]

But R Johnson isn't replacing Rhodes, he's replacing Wilson. He was already in there for half the year last season.

I liked Rhodes but he was asking too much,IMO. His replacement Bell should be adequate as he knows Bowles' system well. I expect the D to pick up where they left off as well. Yes losing DWash will hurt initial progress, I'd agree that we have to give Bowles at least half the season to judge any results. The PR will tell, how often we can get to the QB or make him rush throws. Turnovers will be huge and by all accounts the CS is stressing turnovers a lot.

No, he's not. Yeremiah Bell is replacing Adrian Wilson (who was our starting strong safety).

Rashad Johnson was only playing some 8-10% of defensive snaps in the last half of 2013, and he was still sharing time with that safety we signed from the Patriots. Adrian Wilson was still playing more than 80% of the defensive snaps over the last quarter of the 2012 season.

 

[Russ Smith]

But R Johnson isn't replacing Rhodes, he's replacing Wilson. He was already in there for half the year last season.

I liked Rhodes but he was asking too much,IMO. His replacement Bell should be adequate as he knows Bowles' system well. I expect the D to pick up where they left off as well. Yes losing DWash will hurt initial progress, I'd agree that we have to give Bowles at least half the season to judge any results. The PR will tell, how often we can get to the QB or make him rush throws. Turnovers will be huge and by all accounts the CS is stressing turnovers a lot.

Fair enough I am just talking about playmakers, and AW was one too.

Bell the obvious concern is age, with Rashad it's just does he actually do much.

he's gotten better yes, but I'm just not of the opinion he's going to last.

Of course it looks like Tyrann is going to be on the field early and often and he appears to be a playmaker although a bit prone to risk.

 

[WildBB]

My main problem with the D had nothing to do with scheme. It had tondo with:

Too many yards after initial contact picked up by opposing ball carryers.

I was pretty disappointed by the shoddy tackling. Ryan Mathews is becoming a load however as we'll. I'd love to have that guy here!

 

[WildBB]

No, he's not. Yeremiah Bell is replacing Adrian Wilson (who was our starting strong safety).

Rashad Johnson was only playing some 8-10% of defensive snaps in the last half of 2013, and he was still sharing time with that safety we signed from the Patriots. Adrian Wilson was still playing more than 80% of the defensive snaps over the last quarter of the 2012 season.

In 2012, I'd be surprised by that percentage, because in the 2nd half I was thinking that he was in the 3rd down packages as well as nickel packages.

Wilson played a little more in the last 4 games as well, yes.

 

[kerouac9]

In 2012, I'd be surprised by that percentage, because in the 2nd half I was thinking that he was in the 3rd down packages as well as nickel packages.

Wilson played a little more in the last 4 games as well, yes.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Week 12
Johnson: 19%
Wilson: 54%

Week 13
Johnson: 6%
Wilson: 83%

Week 14
Johnson: 14%
Wilson: 61%

Week 15
Johnson: 56%
Wilson: 40%

Week 16
Johnson: 0%
Wilson: 82%

Week 17
Johnson: 10%
Wilson: 81%

 

[Cardiac]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Week 12
Johnson: 19%
Wilson: 54%

Week 13
Johnson: 6%
Wilson: 83%

Week 14
Johnson: 14%
Wilson: 61%

Week 15
Johnson: 56%
Wilson: 40%

Week 16
Johnson: 0%
Wilson: 82%

Week 17
Johnson: 10%
Wilson: 81%

Well the last 1/4 of the season would be the final 4 games which equals 66% of the snaps and not the over 80% you claimed.

I forget, did Johnson miss a game due to injury? He went from 56% of the snaps to 0% the next week.

I would appear that Johnson was always the man to come in when Adub was on the sidelines.

 

[kerouac9]

Well the last 1/4 of the season would be the final 4 games which equals 66% of the snaps and not the over 80% you claimed.

I forget, did Johnson miss a game due to injury? He went from 56% of the snaps to 0% the next week.

I would appear that Johnson was always the man to come in when Adub was on the sidelines.

Peterson and Rhodes were the "iron men" in the DB corps who were always on the field at least 90% of the time.

If you go week by week, Johnson was splitting time with the DB we got from New England; their shares of the snaps were more or less equal. We also played some multiple-safety formations where Johnson was the 3rd safety on the field.

 

[Mulli]

James Sanders