Raptors @ Suns Tuesday game thread 3-3-20

[Phrazbit]

I wonder if being fatigued puts a player more into a position of being injured. A step or two slow, perhaps?

Yes, it absolutely increases the risk of injury. As you fatigue your form in running, jumping, landing; ect, deteriorates. You are more likely to land knock kneed, when changing directions if your legs are exhausted it puts more stress on the tendons, stuff like that.

However, in Ayton's case last night, I don't know that being fresher would have saved him. He had a 220 pound guy fall straight into the side of his leg and then roll up it. It was a borderline dirty play. OG was flopping for a call without any consideration how his landing would effect his opponent. It looked like a bad sprain but it could have been much worse, if Ayton's leg was oriented differently all that pressure would have been on his knee.

 

[95pro]

One thing that isn't discussed much is how much of an effect Kawhi had on Siakam. Of course they won a title with Kawhi so the trade for him was worth it in that aspect alone but Siakam looks like a poor man's version of Kawhi ever since he's been gone. He was good last year also, stepping up big for them, but he's made the leap from good starter to star this year and I'm surprised he managed to do that. It's not just how good he's gotten but how quickly he's reached that level. Who knows if he'll take another leap next year but if he does, then Toronto might contend again sooner than anyone thought.

Kahwi probably had little to do with his development, the Raptors org is just great at that. Look at the other players that they have acquired; Vanvleet undrafted, OG drafted, Boucher picked up and contributing. Even guys like that Thomas guy are playing with some confidence, i don't think he put up much of anything last night but he was hustling and doing things right last night looking like he belongs in the nba.

 

[BC867]

Totally disagree. Ayton progressed a ton this season. His defense is night and day better. He still needs a lot of work on his offense, but he is starting to show more aggression.

Hopefully next season Ayton will get into game shape right from the start of training camp.

It looks like his negatives reflect constantly having to catch up. A domino effect.

What we need from Deandre is ATP. Available to play.

 

[leclerc]

If we played with this energy on a nightly basis we'd be well over .500.

This effort would have obliterated Detroit and Golden State.

Modus operandi for the Suns. Play hard and lose to good teams. Play lousy and lose to bad teams.

 

[BC867]

Modus operandi for the Suns. Play hard and lose to good teams. Play lousy and lose to bad teams.

Although, in this case, it was an 8-man rotation that kept us in the game.

You can't do that over a season. And, yes, that reflects on the General Manager.

 

[Mainstreet]

One thing that isn't discussed much is how much of an effect Kawhi had on Siakam. Of course they won a title with Kawhi so the trade for him was worth it in that aspect alone but Siakam looks like a poor man's version of Kawhi ever since he's been gone. He was good last year also, stepping up big for them, but he's made the leap from good starter to star this year and I'm surprised he managed to do that. It's not just how good he's gotten but how quickly he's reached that level. Who knows if he'll take another leap next year but if he does, then Toronto might contend again sooner than anyone thought.

I give a lot of credit to Nick Nurse for the development of players and of course their scouting system. The players are almost plug and play in their system. I thought they would struggle this season even with Siakam but they didn't miss a beat after they lost Leonard. If the Suns had drafted Siakam, I wonder if he would be the same player he is today.

 

[Superbone]

Ayton needs to dunk the ball

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

[leclerc]

Positives i see, Ayton, Bridges and Cam have an upwards trajectory. Ayton is lacking the mental part so it hinders the physical part of his game, but there has been improvement in his shortened season. Bridges 3point shooting has come alive, something he's obviously worked hard at. I like the confidence both Bridges and Cam are exuding, they're shooting with confidence as well as taking it inside for dunks now.

Absolutely some positives this year. Need to keep the core and the spirit and add a couple of role players. Then playoffs is a possibility next year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Absolutely some positives this year. Need to keep the core and the spirit and add a couple of role players. Then playoffs is a possibility next year.

no team makes the playoffs without a bonafide leader on the team. we don't have one. this team is still missing a legitimate-star/leader before it gets itself to the playoffs.

people don't want to believe it, but we're the Minnesota T-Wolves. The one year they got their heads above board and into the playoffs was when they had that legit star-veteran leader with Jimmy Butler. Until this team gets someone coming close to that guy, a guy who brings it hard and succeeds on both ends of the court, they're going to be a team with talent on that a rudderless ship for the most part.

 

[BC867]

no team makes the playoffs without a bonafide leader on the team. we don't have one. this team is still missing a legitimate-star/leader before it gets itself to the playoffs.

people don't want to believe it, but we're the Minnesota T-Wolves. The one year they got their heads above board and into the playoffs was when they had that legit star-veteran leader with Jimmy Butler. Until this team gets someone coming close to that guy, a guy who brings it hard and succeeds on both ends of the court, they're going to be a team with talent on that a rudderless ship for the most part.

That is the reality. So far, Devin is OUR leader and All Star (in via the back door).

But, vs. competition, he's not strong enough to win close games on his own. Too many missed 3's
and turnovers with the game on the line and mediocre on defense.

Everybody has limitations and those have been his. He puts up great stats, but is not a difference
maker. Part of the reason why is the inability of management to put strong rotations around him.

All of that adds up to coming up short on the scoreboard at the end of games. Which leads the
refs to choose in favor of the opposition on close calls. Which leads to Book visibly whining on
the court . . . which leads to refs choosing in favor of the opposition on close calls . . . which
leads to Book . . . . . . . . . and on and on.

The Suns chances in 50-50 situations have been more like 30-70 or 25-75. Which is about the
same as Ayton's performance on jump balls.

The Suns best clutch performer has been Oubre. And we've lost him. As well as Ayton on a
regular basis. Putting even more pressure on Booker. He can't be what he's not. And he can't
even be what he is with a supporting cast that is not even good enough to be called mediocre.

Sarver's circle jerk.

 

[JCSunsfan]

no team makes the playoffs without a bonafide leader on the team. we don't have one. this team is still missing a legitimate-star/leader before it gets itself to the playoffs.

people don't want to believe it, but we're the Minnesota T-Wolves. The one year they got their heads above board and into the playoffs was when they had that legit star-veteran leader with Jimmy Butler. Until this team gets someone coming close to that guy, a guy who brings it hard and succeeds on both ends of the court, they're going to be a team with talent on that a rudderless ship for the most part.

It does look like Booker is not that guy. He is young, maybe he can yet be that guy, or maybe he is just not talented enough to be that guy. We do need a KG, Kobe, Jimmy Butler type of competitor to make this thing work. But when you look at it, what is the difference between the Suns and Denver or Utah? Denver is incredibly deep, but the talent level in Utah is not significantly better than the Suns IMO. If Ayton had not been suspended, maybe this team would be in the playoff hunt and playing with a different level of commitment. I just don't know. I do believe you are right though. There is something missing.

The "boyz" on our roster do need to step up and be men. They need to be less focused on their threads and more on wins. Oubre brings a lot of energy, but it is unpredictable and unfocused. Give me some basketball junkies who only care about winning and could not give a rip about their brand.

This is why I want to keep Jevon Carter. He is the only player on our roster who seems to have that kind of competitive fire constantly. He has flaws in his game, but focus is not one of them. Mikal is good in this area too, but he is more defensively talented than competitively focused.

 

[Raindog]

If the Suns had drafted Siakam, I wonder if he would be the same player he is today.

I wonder the same for just about any current star player the Suns could have drafted but didn't over the last decade. The endless management and coaching turmoil under the clod that owns the team would have probably stunted just about anyone who ended up here.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder the same for just about any current star player the Suns could have drafted but didn't over the last decade. The endless management and coaching turmoil under the clod that owns the team would have probably stunted just about anyone who ended up here.

I think this is what James Jones was going for at the trade deadline when he didn't make changes and opted for "continuity." The Suns have let young talent go that have blossomed elsewhere. My issue with this strategy, the Suns didn't have enough pieces in place to do it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think this is what James Jones was going for at the trade deadline when he didn't make changes and opted for "continuity." The Suns have let young talent go that have blossomed elsewhere. My issue with this strategy, the Suns didn't have enough pieces in place to do it.

What young talent blossoming elsewhere? Are you talking about Chriss and Bender? I think the jury is still out on that. Chriss is producing about the same in GS that he did in Phoenix, and with the same W-L impact as well. The difference is that GS did not have to give up anything to get him.

Goran and Bedsoe? Ok. If that is what you are talking about OK. But both of those situations were quite traumatic.

If only Boston had chosen Josh. . .

 

[Mainstreet]

What young talent blossoming elsewhere? Are you talking about Chriss and Bender? I think the jury is still out on that. Chriss is producing about the same in GS that he did in Phoenix, and with the same W-L impact as well. The difference is that GS did not have to give up anything to get him.

Goran and Bedsoe? Ok. If that is what you are talking about OK. But both of those situations were quite traumatic.

If only Boston had chosen Josh. . .

I'm not going to get into reasons but there are players like Dragic, Bledsoe, Warren, Tucker, the Morris twins, Danuel House, Melton, Chriss, Christan Wood, Bender and maybe even Josh Jackson.

And I'm sure I am forgetting many as I write this.

Suns have not been good at developing or dealing with talent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not going to get into reasons but there are players like Dragic, Bledsoe, Warren, Tucker, the Morris twins, Danuel House, Melton, Chriss, Christan Wood, Bender and maybe even Josh Jackson.

And I'm sure I am forgetting many as I write this.

Suns have not been good at developing or dealing with talent.

OK.
Tucker was fine. He was going to be a FA and we were not going to keep him. Same with Dragic. We all know the Bledsoe issue. Warren, yeah, I certainly grant you that one. We traded Melton for Carter. I like Carter, so I am OK with that. Christian Wood? Like on our summer league roster Christian Wood? We did not even control him in any way. He does not belong on that list. Bender is not prospering. Maybe he will, but not yet. Josh Jackson, what is he doing? Remember that everyone of the players mentioned was replaced by someone else. So which of those replacements do you want to give back? These are not direct trades, but they are roster transitions from one to the other which is how you have to look at it.

Carter or Melton
Jackson or Mikal
Warren or Oubre
Bender or Saric

 

[GatorAZ]

It does look like Booker is not that guy. He is young, maybe he can yet be that guy, or maybe he is just not talented enough to be that guy. We do need a KG, Kobe, Jimmy Butler type of competitor to make this thing work. But when you look at it, what is the difference between the Suns and Denver or Utah? Denver is incredibly deep, but the talent level in Utah is not significantly better than the Suns IMO. If Ayton had not been suspended, maybe this team would be in the playoff hunt and playing with a different level of commitment. I just don't know. I do believe you are right though. There is something missing.

The "boyz" on our roster do need to step up and be men. They need to be less focused on their threads and more on wins. Oubre brings a lot of energy, but it is unpredictable and unfocused. Give me some basketball junkies who only care about winning and could not give a rip about their brand.

This is why I want to keep Jevon Carter. He is the only player on our roster who seems to have that kind of competitive fire constantly. He has flaws in his game, but focus is not one of them. Mikal is good in this area too, but he is more defensively talented than competitively focused.

I don’t think having that type of individual competitor is more important than just having professionals. More specifically grown men... As for Jimmy he seems to wear everyone down after a year so we’ll see what happens in Miami.

 

[Mainstreet]

OK.
Tucker was fine. He was going to be a FA and we were not going to keep him. Same with Dragic. We all know the Bledsoe issue. Warren, yeah, I certainly grant you that one. We traded Melton for Carter. I like Carter, so I am OK with that. Christian Wood? Like on our summer league roster Christian Wood? We did not even control him in any way. He does not belong on that list. Bender is not prospering. Maybe he will, but not yet. Josh Jackson, what is he doing? Remember that everyone of the players mentioned was replaced by someone else. So which of those replacements do you want to give back? These are not direct trades, but they are roster transitions from one to the other which is how you have to look at it.

Carter or Melton
Jackson or Mikal
Warren or Oubre
Bender or Saric

I'm only throwing out names of players the Suns controlled (or could control) that went to other teams and improved.

Also the Suns waived Derrick Jones Jr. to sign Mike James. Must be lots more.

 

[95pro]

OG tried to pop Gobert last night with an elbow