Ratto on UA's coaching opening

[Arizona's Finest]

I don't think Pitino would go back to Kentucky. He has too much respect for the people of Louisville to pull that double-double cross. Cal is a definite possibility for UK but the Roy Williams/UNC parallel with Donovon is spot on.

If Pitino or Cal is the choice at UA I will be ecstatic. I am not hopeful though as its going to have a lot of moving parts with either of those guys.

If these national guys who don't know as much as they think they do (Geno? Really?) or are bitter becasue theu don't have inside info end up being right and we get one of the bottom feeders mentioned I will puke in my mouth. I would rather keep Russ at that point.

Saying that I hope like hell you are not right about those two more wins being what he needs? Why have you softened your stance on him potentially becoming the HC Mao?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Saying that I hope like hell you are not right about those two more wins being what he needs? Why have you softened your stance on him potentially becoming the HC Mao?

Never underestimate public outcry, that's why Mike Montgomery is not our head coach right now. If Russ gets this team to the Final Four he fits into all three of Livengood's categories in this hiring:

1) Up-tempo system
2) Success this year
3) Win the press conference

The only one that does not apply to Russ is proven ability to recruit elite players but I'd assume they surround him with an ace recruiter such as Pastner in the Associate Head Coach role or that Nike guy they almost hired last year. Those guys along with the clout of a Final Four appearance might earn him the gig although admittedly Pitino and Calipari would likely have to say no first.

 

[DWKB]

I actually think Cal and Donovan are UKs top two guys. Either way UK opening is gonna throw a kink into the whole off season.

Also, Mao said "You don't think it has anything to do with there being very few elite players willing to play in the C-USA or Atlantic 10?" Looking really likely that Cal gets the #1, #2, and #3 recruits of 2009 to the C-USA.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I actually think Cal and Donovan are UKs top two guys. Either way UK opening is gonna throw a kink into the whole off season.

Also, Mao said "You don't think it has anything to do with there being very few elite players willing to play in the C-USA or Atlantic 10?" Looking really likely that Cal gets the #1, #2, and #3 recruits of 2009 to the C-USA.

That's true now after Calipari built up his program, that certainly wasn't the case a few years ago when he had to hire Milt Wagner and rely on prep shcool kids to field a competitive roster.

I also think UK is going to up with a "Kentucky guy" when all is said and done.

 

[Russ Smith]

If Calipari leaves he would play in a much better conference and would get more respect. I know he was not happy with Memphis getting a #2 seed but that's because their conference is weak. The challenge of playing in a better conference could play a part in his decision.

Also, not all his recruits have signed their LOI's. I read where some have only given a verbal. That would be huge if Calipari became the UofA coach and those who verballed followed him.

Finally, I think Josh Pastner might have some influence. He loves the UofA and probably would follow Calipari if he came here.

I think Cousins is the only one not to sign because he only recently verballed after reopening, but I'm not sure. Most schools have a rule about signing LOI's if a kid hasn't qualified and that may be the case with some of Memphis'
recruits. I'm pretty sure for example Wall has not qualified so even if he was ready to commit he might not sign an LOI.

I don't know if this is true but someone on a Memphis board said there's a clause in his contract that prevents Pastner from working for UA for a set period and it's years. The claim is he'd have to buy out a substantial amount to get out of that clause. Again don't know if that's true.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I don't know if this is true but someone on a Memphis board said there's a clause in his contract that prevents Pastner from working for UA for a set period and it's years. The claim is he'd have to buy out a substantial amount to get out of that clause. Again don't know if that's true.

That's ridiculous. Calipari himself doesn't even have a buyout in his contract.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's ridiculous. Calipari himself doesn't even have a buyout in his contract.

Like I said I don't know if it's true but someone on the Memphis board I read claims it's in his contract he can't return to Arizona for a set number of years without some buyout. A few months back Pastner said something about how his heart will always be with Arizona or something weird that really ticked off some Memphis fans and that's when someone said that's why they got a clause in his contract to stop him from going back there quickly.

Calipari had a buyout in the past but he used NC State's job as leverage to get a new deal at Memphis worth a lot more cash and apparently he got them to agree to no buyout too as part of the new deal which is intriguing.
Why ask for that if you weren't considering leaving at some point?

It'll be fun to watch how it plays out.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Months ago, I speculated Calipari would be the guy and I'm not going to hedge on that now.

Like Mao pointed out, if Calipari ever wants to be recognized as one of the elite coaches, Arizona may be his best chance to prove that he belongs there. I know he could also go to Kentucky, however when it's all said and done, if the Wildcats can Gillespe, I think Billy Donovan's going back. You can't say no to home twice, ask Roy Williams.

Long story short here though, Coach Cal may be at the standpoint where he's gone as far as he's going to go at Memphis. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he makes himself available and jumps at the opportunity to take the U of A job.

Izzo is a pipe dream. I can't think of one reason why he'd leave Michigan State. Same goes with Pitino and Louisville.

Ultimately, I think it's going to come down to Dixon, Wright or Calipari; with my darkhorse candidate being Capel. His name has been linked to both the Virginia job and Arizona. I think with Griffin leaving, his time in Norman may be short.

Just for hypothetical ***** and giggles discussion, Mao what would your thoughts be on "The General" taking the job? It's the longest of long shots and I don't think would be a match, but he DID express interest in the Georgia job.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Like Mao pointed out, if Calipari ever wants to be recognized as one of the elite coaches, Arizona may be his best chance to prove that he belongs there.

If he ever wants to be recognized as elite? Are you kidding me? Coach Cal just took a team to the National Championship game last year, and not only has had major success, but should continue to with many elite recruits on board. If Cal isn't elite, who is elite?

Just for hypothetical ***** and giggles discussion, Mao what would your thoughts be on "The General" taking the job? It's the longest of long shots and I don't think would be a match, but he DID express interest in the Georgia job.

As much as I'd love to see this happen, I would be shocked if "DON'T CALL ME KNIGHT" were the choice. I just can't imagine the motion offense going over well in Tucson.

 

[Russ Smith]

IF Calipari isn't recognized as one of the elites, how come his name comes up for every elite job? I think people recognize he's a good coach the reason he's not usually mentioned with Coach K or Roy Williams is that people think he's a bit shady.

 

[HooverDam]

Just for hypothetical ***** and giggles discussion, Mao what would your thoughts be on "The General" taking the job? It's the longest of long shots and I don't think would be a match, but he DID express interest in the Georgia job.

They just got rid of a senile over the hill coach.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

IF Calipari isn't recognized as one of the elites, how come his name comes up for every elite job? I think people recognize he's a good coach the reason he's not usually mentioned with Coach K or Roy Williams is that people think he's a bit shady.

He IS elite and thats why he should be at one of the top ten jobs in the country. To maximize his legacy.

Obviously we can debate it but I think most UA guys believe that to be the case with our school. We will see if Cal does.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If he ever wants to be recognized as elite? Are you kidding me? Coach Cal just took a team to the National Championship game last year, and not only has had major success, but should continue to with many elite recruits on board. If Cal isn't elite, who is elite?

Cal is elite, he's just not considered in the same category of some of his peers with similar resumes due to the conference he plays in much like Mark Few.

It's cool though, I completely understand why ASU and UCLA fans don't want Calipari in the Pac-10.

As much as I'd love to see this happen, I would be shocked if "DON'T CALL ME KNIGHT" were the choice. I just can't imagine the motion offense going over well in Tucson.

I'll put Knight's odds of getting the Arizona job in the words words of Dean Wormer: Zero. Point. Zero.

If Arizona wanted Knight they would've hired him months ago when he inquired about the job.

 

[Dback Jon]

Gillespie is OUT at UK.

 

[splitsecond]

If Cal is the man, he better learn to recruit players who can SHOOT the ball and MAKE FREE THROWS.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Gillespie is OUT at UK.

According to the Mike and Mike Show, the compliance person at UK is the same one that worked at UMass during part of Calipari's tenure and they hate each other. The Donovan to UK/Grant to UF rumors are making the rounds on the internet this morning. Should be an interesting couple weeks.

 

[Renz]

Gillespie is OUT at UK.

Gillispie's status at Kentucky unclear

LEXINGTON, Ky. -- Billy Gillispie says he's positive Kentucky is close to becoming a "great" team.

Whether the embattled second-year coach gets a chance to find out is anybody's guess.

A day after Kentucky's season ended with a loss to Notre Dame in the National Invitation Tournament quarterfinals, Gillispie remained committed to his job even though he can't even say for sure whether he will be back.

School officials have been quiet about Gillispie's job status after the Wildcats tumbled through the second half of the season to finish 22-14, tied for the second-most losses in the program's 106-year history.

University president Lee Todd said recently Gillispie's position would be evaluated at the end of the season. Todd attended the loss to Notre Dame but did not respond to requests for comment by The Associated Press on Thursday.

Athletic director Mitch Barnhart was planning to meet with Gillispie, though the coach said during his radio show Thursday night no meeting had been scheduled.

In response to an Internet report Gillispie is going to be let go, the University of Kentucky issued the following statement Thursday night: "UK men's basketball coach Billy Gillispie has not been fired. There have been no meetings between Gillispie and UK officials today, and there is no scheduled press conference for tomorrow."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4019229

 

[Russ Smith]

It's cool though, I completely understand why ASU and UCLA fans don't want Calipari in the Pac-10.


.

I don't care if UA gets a good coach I hope they do it's good for the conference to have Arizona be strong again. I just don't logically see why Calipari would leave the job he's at.

I looked at the Dockery-Finch Memphis board this morning, there's not a single thread about how Calipari did this wrong or maybe our conference being weak really does hurt us or maybe we should pursue less one and dones so we have more continuity (rose-evans-Wall) etc. They're all saying thanks to Tyreke, don't forget we had a bunch of new assistant coaches this year Calipari did a great job under the circumstances. The refs called too many fouls etc.

At most places in the country if you've won 27 straight and you lose a game like that, there's going to be a lot of fans complaining, especially what they did the last 3 seasons, but the Memphis fans love the guy.

The closest to a negative was a thread about them not being deep enough this year and even in that thread nobody bothered to point out the obvious, that one reason they weren't deep is their top 2 frontcourt recruits this year, Simpkins and Garcia, were complete busts. Garcia was never cleared academically by the NCAA and may never be, he might be in the nBA draft this year. Simpkins cleared very late, got into a few games, and then got kicked off the team. But not a single fan has blamed Calipari for recruiting those 2 when it clearly hurt them.



I just don't know if Calipari will get that anywhere else?

It's not a knock on UA it's a point about the special situation he has at Memphis.

 

[Renz]

I don't care if UA gets a good coach I hope they do it's good for the conference to have Arizona be strong again. I just don't logically see why Calipari would leave the job he's at.

I looked at the Dockery-Finch Memphis board this morning, there's not a single thread about how Calipari did this wrong or maybe our conference being weak really does hurt us or maybe we should pursue less one and dones so we have more continuity (rose-evans-Wall) etc. They're all saying thanks to Tyreke, don't forget we had a bunch of new assistant coaches this year Calipari did a great job under the circumstances. The refs called too many fouls etc.

At most places in the country if you've won 27 straight and you lose a game like that, there's going to be a lot of fans complaining, especially what they did the last 3 seasons, but the Memphis fans love the guy.

The closest to a negative was a thread about them not being deep enough this year and even in that thread nobody bothered to point out the obvious, that one reason they weren't deep is their top 2 frontcourt recruits this year, Simpkins and Garcia, were complete busts. Garcia was never cleared academically by the NCAA and may never be, he might be in the nBA draft this year. Simpkins cleared very late, got into a few games, and then got kicked off the team. But not a single fan has blamed Calipari for recruiting those 2 when it clearly hurt them.

I just don't know if Calipari will get that anywhere else?

It's not a knock on UA it's a point about the special situation he has at Memphis.

You're answering your own question in this post. Calipari has to recruit players like Simpkins and Garcia at Memphis. He wouldn't have to at a place like UA. I think you may have even made the same point yourself in another post.

Whether the MB's are talking about it or not, Conference USA does hurt Memphis, IMO.

 

[Skkorpion]

If Calipari does go to UA I hope he brings along the Memphis St. "Hospitality girls" or whatever they call them there. Drop-dead gorgeous who-cares-if-they-can't-backflip cheer team.

Sex sells. No wonder kids want to play at Memphis St.

 

[Russ Smith]

You're answering your own question in this post. Calipari has to recruit players like Simpkins and Garcia at Memphis. He wouldn't have to at a place like UA. I think you may have even made the same point yourself in another post.

Whether the MB's are talking about it or not, Conference USA does hurt Memphis, IMO.

I agree it hurts them in that conference but it also helps them get a high seed because they never lose in the conference.

The main thing for me is it's hard to see a coach who loves recruiting the way Calipari does, to leave the best incoming class in the country, possibly the best incoming class in MANY years(if they get Wall) for a school who lost their entire recruiting class and whose best hope is kids open up after coaching changes. UA might still get Solomon Hill, he never signed with USC and told espn2 "i'm verballed to USC but I'm still looking at " and then rattled off 6 schools including ARizona. ESPN2 said on air it was apparent Hill's verbal to USC was VERY tenuous.

But beyond that they're dependent on late finds or kids who open upafter a coaching change. Or he can stay at Memphis and coach an incoming class of 6 who is easily the best he's ever had.

I can see Dixon or Few or even Pitino taking the UA job before Calipari entirely on the recruiting class he's got.

I would add Calipari publicly stated he was going to de-emphasize prepschools in recruiting due to rules changes and other issues. Those issues being Simpkins and Garcia killed them this year. So he doesn't have to it was simply convenient to do that. Alot of the prepschool kids they got were sent to prepschool by Memphis. They committed out of HS but couldn't qualify and they sent them to play for Chris Chaney at whatever prepschool he happened to be at.

 

[DWKB]

You're answering your own question in this post. Calipari has to recruit players like Simpkins and Garcia at Memphis. He wouldn't have to at a place like UA. I think you may have even made the same point yourself in another post.

Whether the MB's are talking about it or not, Conference USA does hurt Memphis, IMO.

Memphis's class next year is potentially close to containing 3 top ten overall players from the 2009 class along with a top 50 player.
As Mao said, that might have been a problem before, but it obviously isn't one for next year.

On top of that him leaving that class to head to UofA with literally nobody recruited currently for 2009 is a very tough sell. Not impossible, but definitely a detriment to making a switch.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think when you are a coach of Cal's level and as aware of hisl egacy as he seems to be, having one stellar recruiting class thats coming in being the reason you don't take a job is extremely short sighted and almost laughable as a reason he won't go. Sure there are no recruits for next year at UA - update me here but is he making a decision for his career or for 2009?

Now if it was LAST years class and he wanted to develop all these kids and take another shot next year thats one thing (ala Donovon)- but him coming to UA or not - its not because of incoming recruits. They would be allowed to leave and as we know in college coaching the coach is whats going to do in his best interests.

The way I see it UA is the closest Cal will get to the creme de le creme fo jobs. Hes not going to be a guy at UNC, Duke, or KU and I seriously doubt UK would go the Cal route. Theres a certain stigma about Cal that I dont' think those elitist schools I mentioned would ever consider him realistically.

But he CAN come to a already developed power that has cred among high schoolers, dozens of NBA alums, plays in great weather and facilities, and has Nike on there side. Like Mao keeps saying there just ain't many preemminent WC programs. After UCLA - even after being down for 5 years - we have been the second most consistent program out here this century. And with California being so fertile someone would be crazy not to think a good recruiter can't take advantage of the Arizona brand.

Like it or not that is a real concept.

I also think the Pac-10 is the perfect conference. A heavy weight to go toe to toe with and 3-4 other up and down programs. So its not Big East tough where you can't have a down year but its light years ahead of C-USA in terms of cred and national exposure.

Maybe Cal stays at Memphis. I don't know. There is money there with FedEX and he can recruit nationally. But I don't think so. He might not go to UA for one reason or another but I guarantee you in 3-5 years he's not there.

His legacy (read ego) is too important.

Did you know when Lute first stepped down JL called Roy Williams first to ask about the UA job and gauge it as a opportunity? Williams said it was "Top 5". Maybe he was being nice on the phone but he isn't far off. Top 10 to be sure.

Memphis just can't offer that same cache. I think its going to be the other big fish personally but I don't think Cal is out of the realm of the possibility. Especially not because of an incoming class.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

And to the topic of this thread - the national guys (especially Gottlieb and Katz) are really starting to piss me off.

Its called perspective. Because UA has had dysfunction the last 3-4 years doesn't stain what has happened before that. They don't see that. Many claim that the UA is JUST Lute Olsen and will go back to be being nothing like in 1984. Um what the hell was UNC before Dean Smith? Syracuse before Boehiem? Duke before Coach K? One coach in any place for more the 20 years can BUILD A PREEMMINENT PROGRAM. Sustainability is in the next hire. And thats why this is so important.

I really just don't get this. If you go back between 1989-2001 we are behind Duke and maybe Kentucky/UNC in that span in terms of success. Even Kansas prior to these last 8 years was good but not as strong as UA from 89 on. UCLA was a like 5 rungs below us between the inconsistent Harrick and now Howland.

That doesn't just go away. And like Howland has proved (and Saban and Stoops in football) as a college program....once you have been to that pinnacle, the right person can bring it back.

I'll eat my words if we end up with Bennet or Theus. But even a screw up like JL is going to have a hard time messing this one up IMO.

And when we do get that top coach then all those national guys can eat my azz....

 

[DWKB]

Um what the hell was UNC before Dean Smith?

Frank McGuire; 1957 National Championship; 1946 National Finalist. The team is second in all-time wins.

Syracuse before Boehiem?

Lew Andreas, Vic Hanson, and Dave Bing; Helms National Champion in 1918 and 1926; The team is 5th in all-time wins.

Duke before Coach K?

Eddie Cameron, Dick Groat, and Vic Bubas; National Runners up in 1964 and 1978. The team is 4th in all-time wins.

One coach in any place for more the 20 years can BUILD A PREEMMINENT PROGRAM. Sustainability is in the next hire. And thats why this is so important.

Above shows that these programs had something before their all-time great coach.

Even Kansas prior to these last 8 years was good but not as strong as UA from 89 on.

Leaving out '88 on purpose? I don't know what prior to these last 8 years has to do with anything but I'd say from 1986 on we are just as strong as UofA if not stronger.

That doesn't just go away. And like Howland has proved (and Saban and Stoops in football) as a college program....once you have been to that pinnacle, the right person can bring it back.

I'll eat my words if we end up with Bennet or Theus. But even a screw up like JL is going to have a hard time messing this one up IMO.

And when we do get that top coach then all those national guys can eat my azz....

That's the challenge, isn't it? Can UofA make it back to a Lute Olsen type performance era?