Re-thinking Marcus Camby

[F-Dog]

I'll start with a couple of basic assumptions:

1. No Kobe
2. The Suns take a center prospect with their high draft pick


I didn't think it would happen, but I'm starting to change my mind about whether the Suns should offer a contract to Marcus Camby.


Pros:

--Camby is still a very good player when healthy. He might be the Nuggets' MVP this year.
--the Suns' youngsters seem to play better on offense when McDyess is at center, spotting up from outside. Camby at C would have a similar effect.
--on defense, Camby is a true center, unlike the undersized McDyess; plus, he's still quick enough to be a strong help defender, a la Bo Outlaw
--Camby is a demon rebounder on both ends; with Camby, the Suns would be one of the better rebounding teams in the league.

Cons:

--Camby is injury-prone.

This is the big problem with Camby, but I'm not sure it would be a deal-breaker anymore, especially if the Suns draft another center. If Camby can play 50 games a year, that would leave 32 games for Lampe and (C-to-be-named-later) to have expanded roles, which should be enough to help the youngsters develop without overwhelming them.

Just as Gugliotta's injury opened up a spot for Amare, and Amare's injury opened a spot for Zarko , a Camby injury would open up PT for the Suns' prospects, who could develop on the court without the burden of unrealistic expectations.

I've decided that it's significant that Camby has been able to come back 100% from his injuries. Unlike a permanently-diminished player like McDyess or Penny (or Chris Webber, etc.), Camby is still in the prime of his career; when he's able to play, the Suns would be a much better team because of it.


--Camby is thin and weak for a center.

I guess the kids will have to toughen up then, to provide a change of pace. Lampe at least has the potential to grow into a space-eater, and I imagine a super-sized youngster would have similar potential. Plus, Amare has enough attitude for two players.


--There won't be money left to go after a top-flight shooter (Brent Barry).

Second-rate shooters are cheap, though. (Voshon Lenard is making $2.75m this year.) Vujanic can shoot lights-out, and he should be coming over. And if nothing else, we'll always have Howard Eisley...


--Signing Camby would kill the Suns FA plans in 2005.

I'm not sure the Suns are in a good position to sign a big-name FA to a long-term, big-money contract. If they draft this year like they have in previous years, they'll have a fourth main cog to go with Marion, Joe J, and Amare--all of those players will be making more money every year. That's also true for the young supporting players...in three years, the Suns will have enough trouble trying to hold on to the players they've got, and they'll probably be happier to have Camby's contract coming off the books than a big-time 2005 free agent with several years left on his deal.


I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't mind so much if the Suns could sign Camby for, say, 3 yrs, $25m.


I put this in a new thread so I can find it and laugh at myself in a year, if need there be.

 

[elindholm]

If I was confident Camby would play 50-60 games a year, that wouldn’t be so bad. Heck, Shaquille O’Neal plays only about 65-70 games a year (in other words, missing half as many as a 50-to-60-game-player would), but I don’t think the Lakers are complaining that he’s injury-prone.

Kevin Johnson, probably the most popular player in Suns history, was constantly in and out of the lineup with his hamstring problems, especially during the second half of his career. During the six seasons 1992-98, he averaged a mere 57 games per year. And while most of us would probably remember that he was hurt a lot, we’d also remember that he usually had a knack for getting healthy when the games counted the most.

The bigger danger with Camby is that, once hurt, he wouldn’t come back. He played only 29 games in each of the last two seasons. That’s not adequate. True, he does seem fully recovered from his injuries now, but isn’t that often the case for the chronically injured? I think of someone like Brad Daugherty. He was almost never healthy, but when he was, he played at a very high level, no matter how many times he had previously been hurt. In other words, an apparent “full” recovery doesn’t really indicate that the player has gotten over whatever his physical problems are.

But do players with troublesome injury histories tend to get re-injured as they keep playing? Absolutely. In fact, can anyone think of a player who had multiple serious injuries early in his career, but then came back to be a rock in his later years? One broken leg doesn’t count. It has to be someone who was hurt more than once – who picked up the label “injury-prone” and then managed to shed it.

It’s all moot anyway, because someone will give Camby a deal for more than three years.

 

[George O'Brien]

I don't understand why all the attention is given to Dampier, Camby, and Okur. Dampier and Camby are having "contract years" after a history of being injured. Both make pretty good money and expect to get as much or more.

I would rather concentrate on lower profile guys who may be a lot less expensive. My first choice would be to go after Mark Blount of the Celtics. Over the last couple of months he has been close to a double doube every night, has no history of injuries, and only makes $1 million this season. The Celtics do not have Bird rights on him and may let him go.

Another guy who might be affordable is Adonal Foyle of the Warriors. He has been injured this season and may not attract a lot of attention, but he has played quite well while Dampier has been injured including 16 rebounds against the Wolves on Friday.

Obviously price is not the only consideration, but Dampier is likely to get above $9 million to start and Camby could get $8. Blount is likely to be available for under $6 million and Foyle below $4 million.

 

[Chaplin]

3 years, 25 million?? You're kidding, right?

There better be no way we give over 8mil per for Camby. No way.

 

[F-Dog]

The bigger danger with Camby is that, once hurt, he wouldn’t come back. He played only 29 games in each of the last two seasons. That’s not adequate. True, he does seem fully recovered from his injuries now, but isn’t that often the case for the chronically injured? I think of someone like Brad Daugherty. He was almost never healthy, but when he was, he played at a very high level, no matter how many times he had previously been hurt. In other words, an apparent “full” recovery doesn’t really indicate that the player has gotten over whatever his physical problems are.

Let's just say that I have some confidence in Camby playing 50, at least two out of the three years. IIRC, one of those two 29-game years (the first?) he had a major hip injury that was very fluky. Before that, he was constantly injured but seemed to make it to 60 every year.

Injuries will always be the major issue for Camby, I'm sure.



George O'Brien:

I don't understand why all the attention is given to Dampier, Camby, and Okur. Dampier and Camby are having "contract years" after a history of being injured. Both make pretty good money and expect to get as much or more.

If the Suns were starting from scratch, it would be one thing, but they have few needs and quite a bit of cap space, so it makes sense for us to talk over the best centers available instead of pinching our virtual pennies.

I like Foyle, too (better than Dampier), but there's the question of whether Foyle is enough better than Jahidi White to justify signing him with White already on the roster. Blount is much better suited to the Eastern Conference IMO, plus he doesn't really fit the desired profile of a 'proven veteran' despite his advanced age.



Chaplin:

3 years, 25 million?? You're kidding, right?

There better be no way we give over 8mil per for Camby. No way.

IMO someone's going to give him at least that much, so if the Suns are considering him, that's the price they'll have to pay.

I know you believe that good centers in the NBA should play for good-but-not-great money. With a more complete understanding of the basic principles of economics, I'm sure you would feel otherwise.

 

[Chaplin]

IMO someone's going to give him at least that much, so if the Suns are considering him, that's the price they'll have to pay.

I know you believe that good centers in the NBA should play for good-but-not-great money. With a more complete understanding of the basic principles of economics, I'm sure you would feel otherwise.

Let's not get personal, ok?

Great money for Marcus Camby? No.

Great money for Jermaine O'Neal/Tim Duncan/Yao Ming? Absolutely.

 

[George O'Brien]

Look at the typical overpaid player. Chances are it happened because he had one good season or was injured and lost his skills.

The simple truth is that many of us believe Dampier and Camby will not duplicate their performances next season. Dampier's numbers are radically better this year than last. If he returns to his last year figures, he would be worth maybe $6 million - not $9 million. Camby has been injured more often than he has been healthy through out his career.

So the issue is not the price per se, but the likelyhood that the Suns will get their money's worth.

 

[Goldfield]

Regardless, we NEED a big rebounding, shot blocking force in the middle. So Amare can roam free and tear things up...

 

[George O'Brien]

Regardless, we NEED a big rebounding, shot blocking force in the middle. So Amare can roam free and tear things up...

I agree. The game against the Clippers hightlighted the problem. The question is who and for how much.

 

[Joe Mama]

Regardless, we NEED a big rebounding, shot blocking force in the middle. So Amare can roam free and tear things up...

I'm not sure I understand this. A big rebounding , shot blocking force in the middle helps defensively, but unless he can hit an outside shot it clogs things up in the middle on offense. I agree that the Phoenix Suns would be better defensively with a shot blocker in the middle. However the entire defensive scheme needs to change. I'm sick of the double-team in without a real purpose. I'm tired of watching overaggressive perimeter defenders run right by the guy they are supposed to be defending. Amare Stoudemire needs a lot of work defensively. He needs a lot of work on the boards. Even without a true center this team should be better defensively.

Joe Mama

 

[Goldfield]

Amare Stoudemire needs a lot of work defensively. He needs a lot of work on the boards. Even without a true center this team should be better defensively.

Joe Mama

You are right... I am "hoping" alot of that is still youth. But we need an above average guy at the center spot.

Lampe looks to have alot of potential, but I would rather have him as the second option at center than the starter.

(SINCE WERE DREAMING)
C: Camby/Dampier, Lampe
PF: Amare, Okafor
SF: KOBE, Zarko,
SG: JJ, Barbosa, KC
PG: Vujanic, Barbosa, JJ

kickin arse' in 2005!